[BobC]

First let me state that I know nothing about vinyl.  Don't own a single record and really have never heard a good vinyl system.  Not sure I want to, because I'll probably like it and it'll force me to spend a bunch of money on a different format!      So no flames please...not trying to pick a fight, just sharing a thought.

Last night I was flipping through the audio magazines and read about digital rights management and how the record companies are being hurt.  Then I read about how vinyl is making a big comeback.  Sales and releases are way up.

Then I thought... boy, I bet the record companies really love this!  No need to worry about piracy!

Then the skeptical evil voice in my head    whispered... maybe the record companies are really behind the resurgence of the vinyl format and it has little to do with the reputed superior fidelity!

I don't really believe there is a conspiracy or anything like that.  But I guess I'm surprised that the record companies aren't pushing vinyl harder given the benefit to their business.

Thoughts?

[Kevin Haskins]

I think if they where organized enough they would do whatever possible to maximize their profits.    The problem with conspiracy theories though is they assume some organizational capability that neither large companies or government can never actually obtain.    They are by nature inefficient at change, adaption and lack the subtleties to actually implement a good conspiracy.

[gooberdude]

that would be wild!!!      an analog based consiracy.  


I got into vinyl not long ago simply to make my Ipod sound better...i wanted an analog sounding Ipod and computer based music server system.  i also heard LP's sound better than cd's.

i can rip any LP to my HD, then send that music file to anyone I know free of charge.

yeah, its not quite the same as internet piracy....oh wait, it is.


i think its funny when the big guys report massive losses, but really they are just less gross profits than the previous year.  This normalization began decades ago, current tech is just speeding up the effects...i remember making mixed tapes from the time i was 5, probably of the Dukes of Hazzard theme song together with a few tracks from Grease...    I doubt Cooter, Daisy May or J. Travolta suffered financial hardships.

take a look at the $ Wal-mart made from downloads last year - the smart companies aren't losing this battle...

i just read an interesting article that big labels are working with Universities to penalize offenders, even suspending students for a semester in some cases.  

[BobC]

So do you think any major company would start to push vinyl harder due to DRM?

[Steve Eddy]

Then the skeptical evil voice in my head    whispered... maybe the record companies are really behind the resurgence of the vinyl format and it has little to do with the reputed superior fidelity!

You're absolutely correct! Check it out!

Music Industry Unveils New Piracy-Proof Format: A Black, Plastic Disc With Grooves On It

se

[BobC]

   I knew it!!!

[WEEZ]

 

 

 

[Bemopti123]

if this would be true, it would be the one conspiracy that I would welcome.

How TWL from Audiogon claimed in his thread about vinyl, no other format can really come close to it, but most of society cannot tell from a low formated MP3 to a hifi recording. 

MP3s and digital is convenient, but vinyl puts the soul into music.  It is almost like a monastic experience when you begin to spin a record.  It is not that you can carry the tune with you when you want to.  Most likely, you will be listening to the album and music for a good while (good cartridges have a finite life.) 

May this conspiracy continue. 

PS:  Will record stores be willing to relinquish their shelves to make more space to Vinyl.  To be honest, CDs are more space efficient and easy to stock rather than vinyl, but then, at the rate things are going, most traditional record stores will either have to choose to shut down OR migrate their business model to the internet, which is already crowded. 

Someone who advocates for the record stores better come out with an excellent propaganda drive to tout the benefits to vinyl.  In retrospect, most people our days DO NOT CARE about fidelity, convenience is KING. 

[Joules]

Yesss - I want a 'RecordMan" - Just pop in your favorite album and hang it around your neck, stuff in the ear buds and your good to go with Hi quality music 

[BobC]

I wonder what would happen if the record companies really did make a hard push for vinyl as THE hi rez format?     Imagine if they invested $millions, like they did with SACD or DVD-A, to "modernize" the recording and pressing technology making it state of the art stuff vs. 30 or 40 year old technology! 

They could allow downloads all day as a market "primer" and then direct folks to vinyl as the hi-rez format of choice without fear of piracy.

[TheChairGuy]

Far-fetched it is as a conspiracy...but fun to banter about 

It's more about financial reality.....there's been a surge of sales in record players over the past 10 years and the big companies are slowly waking to the realities of it.  They are for-profit, generally public companies that now notice, once again, an opportunity to sell more records. This is not nostalgia....it is a small wave of consensus from music lovers that something is amiss from CD's. 

Ummm, like music-ality   

There are some labels, generally small specialist ones, that have never stopped producing albums.  They weren't prescient; they just catered to a market that was a few years ago too small for the big record companies to notice. 

It's not conspiracy at all, its just capitalism at work.  As a vinylphile, this is one trend that is going in my favor now (I bought my first new album in some 20 years recently - Ben Harper's 'Diamonds on the Inside' - and it's wonderful not having inherited someone else's pops and clicks for a change  )  $16.98 it was, too, not terribly expensive.

BobC - if you heard a decent system (your own or another) - you'd know it was less of a conspiracy than you would think.  Better CD players are described as 'analog-like' for a real good reason 

[BikeWNC]

But today it is easy enough to digitize LPs and write to CD.  So I don't really buy the theory.  Of course to get a good copy a decent analog setup and clean records etc. are required, but it can be done.  Maybe less people would bother though.  Maybe cassette tape will come back strong too.  Where's my old walkman? 

Andy

[TheChairGuy]

Andy,

You made a great point.  If the cassette were a worthy medium, it too, would have staged a comeback.  Vinyl - despite the utter pain of use - is more musical than most CD's and folks are finding that so (once again).

The public (well still a very small portion of it really, and I don't expect it to grow into an avalanche as vinyl is still such an inconvenience) demands more vinyl because there is something worthy about it.  There is little worthy about the ole' cassette...so there is little clamoring for it to stage a comeback.

Again, it's simple economics and capitalism at work - and no conspiracy 

[lcrim]

The masters still exist in most cases.  It could be done if the distributors saw a sizeable profit in it but I just don't think they are as smart as that.  What we see as increasing sales volumes in TT's, etc. is all relative.  SACD and DVDA did get developed and marketed but they fell down on having a decent supply of product.  DVDA in particular, might have made me rethink my choices.
There are some small providers that are pressing new vinyl.  You can buy Nora Jones and Ricky Lee on newly minted vinyl but it does tend to be expensive.  I have a MoFi sampler that is simply stunning quality.  But I do rejoice over finding anything that is listenable from a wear and tear standpoint as well as being quality musically.
I do drive to Princeton regularly and other outlets in Jersey and swap meets and regularly spend too much and if a third of what I bring home becomes regularly played, I count myself as lucky.

[Wayner]

The fact is, large music companies are not making vinyl. It is the smaller venues that are doing so as it is a niche for them, with enough sales to keep the ship afloat. The real winners, if there are any, are the folks that are selling used albums at local shops. Many have told me that it is a nice surge in their sales, but still only accounts for a very marginal sales volume. In effect, it's not very profitable. There are the well known e-businesses that are selling modest amounts of new LP's (my quess on sales volume), but at $30 to $40 dollars for a re-master with questionable sonic improvements, I'll take the $3 dollars used "Hotel California".

If you want to talk about conspiracy theory, let's talk about the fact that I have recorded vinyl onto CD-R that sounds better than the original mastered CD version. I asked Michael Fremmer about that awhile ago and he remarked that he had the same opinion, and that the good vinyl on a good machine with a good cartridge can beat the sonics off of CD's. Since the record companies have the "master" tape and I have a 5th generation pressing, I don't understand how the CD doesn't blow our heads off.....unless the record companies found out how good the CD's sounded in the early days and decided to screw them up so that the general public won't have access to such high quality recordings.

This is where the smoking gun lies.

W

[WEEZ]

Wayner, (re: vinyl to cd-r sounds better than the mastered cd..)

My 'theory' is that it may have something to do with phase. (read the recent firestorm thread that discussed the topic)

And at the risk of upsetting the digital lovers (no reference to the 'other' firestorm thread ) any analog source can sound better than digital. I've posted this somewhere before, but I can't remember where.. : I have the "Romanza" album by Andrea Bocelli (Phillips/Polygram) on cassette (yes, cassette tape) and also on cd. I did an 'AB' with my sons to prove to them that the tape cassette sounded better than the cd. There is simply some of the music 'missing' on the cd. Both my sons agreed that the cassette not only played ALL the music...but it sounded better (more natural) to boot

The very same with Ray Charles' "Genious Loves Company". The cd is good; the vinyl is superb.

And even with burned cd's...I can hear that information is presented differently from the original to the copy. Sometimes it's better. Sometimes it's not....

WEEZ

[Joules]

 

[macrojack]

There most certainly is a vinyl conspiracy afoot. I know because I'm part of it. And I'm not alone. There are literally hundreds of us world wide. We meet here daily to plot and scheme toward the ultimate goal of reinstating and re-establishing our medium to it's proper status in music reproduction.
After all, the way things stand a few hundred analog junkies have to share a scant billion LPs. I mean, I'm into sharing, but let's not make it difficult. We need more product.

[TheChairGuy]

So, this guy is part of the conspiracy? 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2007-02-21-vinyl-usat_x.htm

[BobC]

"And yet the plant remains a timepiece, with its rumbling presses that jar the floor, noisy blasts of compressed air and vats of blue nickel solution used to create the master discs"

Imagine if someone like say Sony invested say $10MM to modernize the process!    I'm tellin' ya, it's the next high rez format