[Carlman]

Sorry this isn't really an 'audio' post but... it does have to do with improved imaging...

I'm interested in the flat screens so I can have a TV without the image-decreasing effect of a cabinet between the speakers.

Where do you get info on LCD/Plasma TV's?  I've seen a Samsung that I thought looked really good but, I'd like to research this subject some more and find out more about the technology and who does it best.... I'd also like to know if the prices will come down or any other trends of LCD or Plasma TV's.  So far salesmen have been able to identify them but, that's about it.  I'm looking at the $3,k variety so, I don't want to waste the time of a specialty store selling the 10,k versions.

I just think it makes the most sense to have the best imaging possible by having the TV almost flush with the wall.  I'm not in a rush but, interested to learn more.

I apppreciate any input either on this subject or for good sources to read.

[Hantra]

C:

Head over to avsforum.com. . .  Those guys over there can answer questions.  That's where I asked about my TV, and I got lots of input. . .  I hate to pitch another site on here and all, but those are serious theater buffs over there. . .

Nevertheless, when you get ready to buy, let me know, and maybe I can hook you up with a guy. .

B

[Carlman]

THANKS!
I just got done reading the FAQ section... I feel much better.  I almost PM'd Hantra but, decided I'd just throw this out there for everyone.  

This is a video question in an audio forum.  I'm not really a video guy but, needed some guidance.... and I got it!  I really think the link provided is appropriate in this case.

Thanks again,
Carl

[Marbles]

C:

Head over to avsforum.com. . .  Those guys over there can answer questions.  That's where I asked about my TV, and I got lots of input. . .  I hate to pitch another site on here and all, but those are serious theater buffs over there. . .

B

Hantra (and others)  one of the great things about this site is we do not discurage you pointing people to the right place to get the information they need, wether it is a website or another forum.

In fact I like these kinds of posts..........I find I learn a lot from those dedicated sites, and the fact that we do make these posts makes AC more valuable in the long run.

[meilankev]

Carlman,

Have you given any consideration to a Front Projector?  My Home theater is about 85% music and 15% movies.  Therefore, having nothing between my front speakers was very important to me when designing the room (in fact I use no Center Speaker for DVDs).

Rather than spending mega-bucks for a Plasma TV, I bought a Sanyo PLV-60HT Front Projector.  Even though it has "last year's technology", the HD picture mates very nicely with a Progressive Scan DVD player.  I don't think it is available any longer, but I saw it a couple of months ago for ~ $3,100.

Since technology moves onward, I'm sure you could find a better quality projector for even less money.  Will the picture be as sharp/clear as a plasma?  Of course not.  It all depends on your priorities and your pocketbook.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

Kevin

[shokunin]

AVS definitely has a LOT of good information on displays, even discussion on front projection vs. plasmas.  I have both, and front projection isn't ideal if you don't have a light controlled room and need to watch TV during the day.  Even with my 1000+ lumen JVC projector with a Stewart Firehawk, all the shades drawn, and watching TV during the day isn't anywhere near as nice as watching it on my 43" pioneer plasma.  Then again, at night, watching HDTV or movies are much better on the front projection than the plasma.

[Sa-dono]

AVS definitely has a LOT of good information on displays, even discussion on front projection vs. plasmas.  I have both, and front projection isn't ideal if you don't have a light controlled room and need to watch TV during the day.  Even with my 1000+ lumen JVC projector with a Stewart Firehawk, all the shades drawn, and watching TV during the day isn't anywhere near as nice as watching it on my 43" pioneer plasma.  Then again, at night, watching HDTV or movies are much better on the front projection than the plasma.

You need a Silverstar

[bubba966]

Carl,

The Cinema is our video related circle here. I'd move it, but I only have the power to do such things in that circle as I'm only given Facilitator powers for The Cinema...

Anyway, I don't have any trends or graphs to give you, but Plasmas have over the years gotten better while the price has slowly come down. Though the price has come down quicker in the last year or so than it has in the past 4 or 5 years (about the length of time I've been following Plasmas).

I can tell you that Pioneer & Fujitsu have always seemed to know how to build Plasmas better than anyone else. I know Fujitsu has in the past OEM'd other companies Plasmas (ie older Sony models), but I don't know about that right now.

Panasonic has been making some really good looking Plasmas as well in the last year or so. Though when run side by side, I still like the Pioneer Elite's the best.

I personally would go with a DLP projector before I'd go with a Plasma at the moment as the DLP's still look better in my opinion. Any of the DLP's with the TI 16:9 chip are pretty good. I've not recalled seeing one of the D-ILA projectors in action yet.

[Jay S]

I'm waiting for great plasmas to drop below $2k.  They were closer to $5k a year ago but now a very good plasma like the Samsung is $2.8k.  

From an audio standpoint I would be better off with a DLP projector and a screen that I could pull down when needed.  My living room is not very bright anyway.  But, we figured that it would be more convenient to use a plasma, esp since my wife watches a lot of TV (I can go weeks without it, except during F1 season).  The difference in screen size would not be a huge factor - as my living room is not very deep, I couldn't get much more than a 60" image from a DLP projector anyway.

[Rob Babcock]

Plasmas are getting better, but the black still isn't there and even the best exhibit "false contouring" of dark scenes.  I could live with that for the coolness of plasma except for one dealbreaking feature: they burn very easily, even the new ones.  That may not seem like a big deal, but if you watch much regular aspect ration material or watch a channel with a "bug" in the corner (eg, the CNN logo or Discovery Channel) you're courting disaster.  And forget about playing videogames on it.

Still, Plasma is sexy and cool, and prices are falling.  I wouldn't mind one under the right circumstances.

[shokunin]

Now plasma's do burn in, but it's not like if you watch discovery channel for 3 hours you're going to get permanent burn in.  My wife left the DVD of Baby Mozart playing and it was stuck at the main menu for around 7 hours on the plasma.   There was very faint burn in when I turned it off at night.  When I woke up the next morning, it was gone.

However with video games, just make sure you intermix game play with regular TV watching to unstuck those pixels after video games.

[Rob Babcock]

"However with video games, just make sure you intermix game play with regular TV watching to unstuck those pixels after video games."

Easier said than done!  You must have never played HALO!

[azryan]

Hope this isn't a double post. This stupid site doesn't show my 1st attempt to post this, but it 'might' be there. Crazy program.

Just saw this thread. I know it's pretty much dead, but in case anyone looks this thread up/search sometime I'd like to add some comments...

I don't get this thread?

Carlman asks about 'flat screens' (pointing out LCD and Plasma) so as not to degrade speaker imaging.

What?

My 65" Mitsu RPTV is a 'flat screen' too, and has a better picture than most plasma sets IMO, and cost me $3K. A plasma set that size goes for what... about $15-18K?

An RPTV's 'flat screen' is a plastic sheet, and Plasma is hard glass. How does hard glass improve reflections off of it?
Answer- It doesn't. At all.

In my room I have my mains several feet in front of my screen as anyone should do whether they own a Plama, LCD, or CRT direct view or RPTV, or FP.

When I'm listening to music only, I flip down a fat, soft, dark blanket over the TV screen to almost totally eliminate reflection. Takes all of 4-7 seconds. Two little weights on top of the set hold the blanket in place so you can just 'flip up' or 'flip down' whenever you want.

It also elimnates having an ugly giant black mirror in your room which you'll have whether you own a RP or Plasma set.

Many people say "a front projection is the best 'cuz you have no set at all". Implying that you totally eliminate reflection problems since there's no actual 'display box' of any kind in the room.

There's no 'display box'. That's true, but that's only part of it...

The main benefit of a FP screen is really only that the screen is so far behind the speakers -which is only 'typically'. It all depends on exactly how you set your room up.

If you have your mains only a couple feet in front of the hard wall the screen is mounted to then you're getting the reflection of that whole wall which would be worse than in an RPTV set up like mine where the speakers are far from the wall behind them and the RPTV is also several feet back and treated w/ a very absorbing blanket.

You could maybe tip up a cloth or sound tubes in front of a FP screen when your FP is off, and get a result similar to what I'm doing w/ covering my RP screen, but I think far more trouble to do.

You could throw a blanket over a Plasma set to block the VERY reflective glass screen too, but Plamas's super heated gas. The sets get very warm-to-hot. Pretty dumb to toss a fat blanket over a system like that IMO.

If you have the Plasma set mounted to the back wall you'd have to tip up a screen to block reflections, and the father back the screen is the smaller is looks to you, so you'd need about a 72" Plasma set to match the 65" RPTV screen size that would be ~2.5'-3' in front of that same wall.

If you don't hang the Plasma set on the wall (and they're VERY heavy too. They look nice and thin and 'wall-ready', but they're HEAVY remember) then you need a special stand for them, and you'll be filling the volume of space a big black RPTV box would take up.

As for picture quality...

Personally I think LCD pictures all suck. The black level is med gray at best, and the screens are still very small and very costly, and off-axis is awful, and the pixel gaps stink.

I don't know how anyone thinks they're any good for computers even, but I know many people want/own them for their computers so go figure?
Flat screen CRTs are far cheaper and look much better, but they're not 1" thin. 'Gee-wiz'.

OLED screens 'might' kick butt over LCD when they come out, but being organic they might have longevity issues companies won't bother to tell you about (like companies don't mention about Plamas set either). Organic compounds break down.
And they'll be very cost too I'm sure when first on the market.

Plasma, which is much cheaper than it 'was' is still a horrible 'value' IMO, and while it looks better than LCD, I still don't think it looks very filmic at all (for me DVD movies are the most important thing I display, and I'm guessing the same for most of you reading this), and while many are technically a very high resolution, they're often 'not' a native HDTV grid, and more importantly IMO -the pixels gaps are far larger/easy to see than the basically invisible gaps between a CRT-based RPTV.

DLP I don't trust to not get stuck pixels. I've just seen too many FP's and RP's w/ this probelm to trust it yet and TI doesn't consider a few stuck pixels to be flawed and under warranty to be repaired. That's b.s. IMO.

The pixels also don't move fast enough to keep up w/ fast motion picture movment. Try looking at a set in a store w/ a football game playing (a typical demo loop) and look at the bad motion blur, then look at a CRT set next to it and it has far better motion tracking.

A RP or FP system can both be had for much cheaper and w/ much larger screen sizes and far more natural film-like pictures than LCD or Plasma.

Plasma looks just like a direct view CRT to me... but I know there are MANY people who lust after Plasma (they are 'neat' looking 'cuz they're so thin) so we all just have our opinions on 'preference'.

Just wanted to point out some factors to actually improving speaker imaging as it relates to what display you have in your room.

[shokunin]

I don't get this thread?

Carlman asks about 'flat screens' (pointing out LCD and Plasma) so as not to degrade speaker imaging.

What?

My 65" Mitsu RPTV is a 'flat screen' too, and has a better picture than most plasma sets IMO, and cost me $3K. A plasma set that size goes for what... about $15-18K?

An RPTV's 'flat screen' is a plastic sheet, and Plasma is hard glass. How does hard glass improve reflections off of it?
Answer- It doesn't. At all.

I don't get your post, so you're saying that an RPTV sitting between the speakers with a blanket is better?  You still have an ugly 50" wide 24" deep 40" tall cabinet taking 28 cubic feet of space.

The fact is there is a cabinet between the speakers, no matter how you dress it, cover it up, it is there.  With a plasma or LCD it's also there just a heck of lot less of it.  

Glass vs. plastic is not the issue here, having a cabinet between the speakers is the issue.

Many people say "a front projection is the best 'cuz you have no set at all". Implying that you totally eliminate reflection problems since there's no actual 'display box' of any kind in the room.

There's no 'display box'. That's true, but that's only part of it...

Yes, there's no 'dispaly box' and that is ALL of it, not part of it.  With no display (using an electric screen) there is just the room, with nothing in between.  

If you have the Plasma set mounted to the back wall you'd have to tip up a screen to block reflections, and the father back the screen is the smaller is looks to you, so you'd need about a 72" Plasma set to match the 65" RPTV screen size that would be ~2.5'-3' in front of that same wall.

Huh?  So you're saying you need to sit and additional 2.5' to 3' further back from the same sized screen in order to offset all the cabinet space taken up by the RPTV.   What's the benefit there?

If you don't hang the Plasma set on the wall (and they're VERY heavy too. They look nice and thin and 'wall-ready', but they're HEAVY remember) then you need a special stand for them, and you'll be filling the volume of space a big black RPTV box would take up.

Heavy? compared to what? Your RPTV, A CRT of equivalent size?  Yes they require a substantial wall mount, and if you put it on a stand there is absolutely no way it would take up the same volume of an RPTV.   A plasma stand for a 50" could be as small as 16" high, 14" deep, 30" wide.

As for picture quality...

Personally I think LCD pictures all suck. The black level is med gray at best, and the screens are still very small and very costly, and off-axis is awful, and the pixel gaps stink.

I don't know how anyone thinks they're any good for computers even, but I know many people want/own them for their computers so go figure?
Flat screen CRTs are far cheaper and look much better, but they're not 1" thin. 'Gee-wiz'.

That's pretty funny...        Seriously though, CRT's typically win out  over cheaper LCD's on black level and motion response and  resolution.  They lose on uniformity, convergance, sharpness, moire, color saturation, 2 thin wires on trinitrons, focus, heat and size.

People like them for computers because they tend to be easier on the eyes, blurry text on even the sharpest trinitrons or shadow mask can't compare to an LCD.  distortions and convergance issues on a CRT typically don't exist on LCD (using DVI).

[azryan]

"-I don't get your post, so you're saying that an RPTV sitting between the speakers with a blanket is better?-"

Try reading more carefully next time when you get confused...

I wrote.... -In my room I have my mains SEVERAL FEET IN FRONT OF my screen as anyone should do whether they own a Plama, LCD, or CRT direct view or RPTV, or FP.

That's not BETWEEN as you wrote. Big diff, and that diff. was a big part of my point.

"-You still have an ugly 50" wide 24" deep 40" tall cabinet taking 28 cubic feet of space."

Yeah... so? Try making a real point next time.

"-The fact is there is a cabinet between the speakers, no matter how you dress it, cover it up, it is there. With a plasma or LCD it's also there just a heck of lot less of it.

Glass vs. plastic is not the issue here, having a cabinet between the speakers is the issue."

Nope. You're still not making a point, but I'm sure you thought you were.

'Maybe', but I'm just guessing... you're trying to say that the point is that the box is ugly?

That's not the point of this thread. Imaging is, and you certainly didn't say anything related to that.
If you think I'm wrong why don't you try explaining how I am wrong.

A 65" Plasma set is a large black screen. An RPTV is a large black screen.

Same thing, except the RPTV esentially has a black box below it as a connected stand.
Not that asthetics are the issue, but I put my electronics below my screen, and many people w/ Plasma sets do the same -both covering what's behind them whether plain black box, or whatever type of Plama stand (which is often an electronics cabinet itslef) or exposed wall if a Plasma set if hung from the wall.

I don't know how you've seen RPTV's set up, but in most places I've seen them incl. my own room, you'd actually have to try to walk up to the wall they're in front of to see the side and back.

In simple terms for you -My set looks 2D in my room, and that's not IMO atypical for many RPTV set-ups in other HT rooms.

You haven't made ANY point as to why it matters that it's their instead of open air BEHIND a Plasma set.

And I DID make a point about why a treated RPTV screen is better than an untreated hard glass Plasma set.

"-Yes, there's no 'dispaly box' and that is ALL of it, not part of it. With no display (using an electric screen) there is just the room, with nothing in between."

Ahh.... so your point is to dismiss RPTV's, AND Plasma, LCD, etc...

Well, I addressed your opinion of 'no display is best' already.
The wall iself becomes the problem. Re-read what I wrote.

I said -If you have the Plasma set mounted to the back wall you'd have to tip up a screen to block reflections, and the father back the screen is the smaller is looks to you, so you'd need about a 72" Plasma set to match the 65" RPTV screen size that would be ~2.5'-3' in front of that same wall.

Then you TWISTED that into your question...

"-Huh? So you're saying you need to sit and additional 2.5' to 3' further back from the same sized screen in order to offset all the cabinet space taken up by the RPTV. What's the benefit there?"

I DIDN'T say that, so I won't be say 'the benefit'. Pretty trixy little hobbit.

How far you sit from the screen and how far you sit from your speakers are two totally diff. issues that someone needs to deal with at the same time -as you should know, and both depend on your room size, screen size, and type of speakers as to what's best.

What I'm saying is that there are people (and the poster Carlman 'might' be in this position but I don't know his room, system, screen size he has or wants, etc...) who are probably best having their speakers pulled out several feet from the wall.

Like 5-6' in many cases.

Right there, you're able to put ANY type of display several feet BEHIND the speakers whether RPTV, Plasma, or roll-down FP screen.

Then it's a matter of the size screen you want/have. I thought Carleman was talking ~45-65" since he was talking Plasma and LCD. Just a logical guess.

Now if you place any set within that size range in a room w/ speakers pulled out optimally from the wall, then ANY type of set will fit in BEHIND it.
A 65" RPTV in my case.

And as I already stated, if that set were Plasma and on the wall it'd be farther away from me making it effectively smaller.
It'd also be a LARGE pane of hard glass to reflect and damage the imaging of the speakers.

You seem to think an open wall behind a pair of speakers won't reflect sound and therefore better than having a RPTV in the room treates w/ an absorbing blanket.

You'd be wrong and I tried to make that point in my last post. And I think I did, but you didn't get it.

I mentioned how Plasma sets are so HEAVY for hanging on a wall, and you said...

"-Heavy? compared to what? Your RPTV, A CRT of equivalent size?-"

Uh... NO. Heavy compared to things that were MEANT to be hung on the wall of a typical room wall -like painting, photgraphs, light shelves, etc...

You don't need to 'hang' a CRT set from a wall. You (I assume) know that already and are just trying to use cheap shots to discredit my comments. Sorry. Won't work.

"-Yes they require a substantial wall mount, and if you put it on a stand there is absolutely no way it would take up the same volume of an RPTV. A plasma stand for a 50" could be as small as 16" high, 14" deep, 30" wide."

You're not making any point -again. You're the one making an 'issue' out of 'volume of space' taken, which means it's up to you to make a POINT about that issue. Jeez. I shouldn't need to help you argue against me! hehe

My point was very clear... a hard glass Plasma screen is far worse to speaker imaging than the same size RPTV screen (which should be set behind the speakers). AND in addition to that, you can easliy flip down a nice looking, room matching, absorbing blanket (mine has a night sky on it in dark blue w/ stars) to almost totally 'erase' the RPTV screen acoustically.

You don't want to throw a blanket on a plasma set.

As to my comments on LCD's for computers, you said...

"-That's pretty funny..."

Uh... ok? So tell me why?

"-Seriously though, CRT's typically win out over cheaper LCD's on black level and motion response and resolution."

Oh... you decide to make my point?

But I see there's more....

"-They lose on uniformity, convergance, sharpness, moire, color saturation, 2 thin wires on trinitrons, focus, heat and size."

Hmmm... What direct view CRT convergange are you talking about??? I assume you changed the subject back to RP CRTs without letting us know. hehe

I'll ignore Sony's trinitron, since there are far more opions that one brand.

You're right about 'heat' since that's certainly a true bonus for LCD, but even here in AZ where heat is a BIG issue, the extra pennies my computer's CRT it adds to my heating bill is nothing compared to the added cost to buy an LCD monitor in the first place.

I didn't want to really drift off to computer monitors, but I don't think you're right about any the other LCD 'advantages' you brought up. Even if you're 100% right about them all being better on LCD which I don't think is true, all combined they don't IMO have any meaning compared to the large pixel gaps in LCD, blue-gray black level, bad off-axis angle, and FAR higher price.

"-People like them for computers because they tend to be easier on the eyes, blurry text on
 even the sharpest trinitrons or shadow mask can't compare to an LCD."

That'd be the large pixel gaps of LCD deliniating the text. You'd have to try to make a CRT that looked that bad to get similar results. heh

"- distortions

Distortions? Now who's joking? Nothing's perfect and LCD 'distorts' a picture much more blatantly than CRT does.

[Carlman]

"-I don't get your post, so you're saying that an RPTV sitting between the speakers with a blanket is better?-"

Try reading more carefully next time when you get confused...
...

I wish Azryan would calm down and and stop using this thread as an attack on flat panels and forum members.  You don't know my requirements or room dimensions or what I'm trying to achieve.  I'm glad you've found what works best for you.  

Azryan, you make some good points in your first thread and I spent a good half hour or more deciding that flat panels just don't look as good as RPTV's at Circuit City.  The value isn't there comparing them side-by-side.  So be it.  It's my choice to spend more on something that takes a back seat to 2-channel listening.

My goal was to remove a large object from between my speakers to improve imaging.  Shokunin's responses mirror my reaction to your post.

My speakers can be about 2.5 feet from the back wall max.  Covering a TV with a blanket is your solution and I'm glad it works for you.  I have other ways to handle room treatment.  

Different things work for different people.  That's why different things are made.  I'd prefer to keep this thread positive and helpful rather than getting lectures from easily angered people who don't know the whole story.

[JoshK]

I with Carlman, I got rid of a really large CRT and replaced with Plasma because I don't have a great deal of leeway with how far I can pull my speakers out from the back wall.  

Do this for better imaging.  Take a sheet of foam and attach two J hooks upside down.  Hang over the plasma when you aren't watching and want to listen to music (assuming you turned off the plasma).  When you want to watch or make the room prettier take off and put in a closet.

[azryan]

Carlman, you wrote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
azryan wrote:
"-I don't get your post, so you're saying that an RPTV sitting between the speakers with a blanket is better?-"

Try reading more carefully next time when you get confused...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That first line was Shokunin's comment not mine. Jeez-

The second line you quoted as mine actually was mine, but what does my saying  'read more carefully' have to do w/ you??
I explained to him the mistake I was specifically refering to in that quote, and you make no comment about that issue. What are you doing?

I was correctiong him on the mistake he made, and now I've gotta correct the error you made. thanks a lot.

"I wish Azryan would calm down and and stop using this thread as an attack on flat panels and forum members. -"

I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. I didn't attack flat panel owners, but you certainly just did attack me.

I was trying to help you and others w/ good logical advice, and if you actually read what I suggested you'll see that (as far as you wrote in your last post) your findings are mostly the SAME as mine. If oyu specifically disagree w/ something I said. Feel free to say what it is.

You don't though, YET you choose to tell me to calm down and claim I'm attcking people? That's you being a jerk to me IMO.

I didn't attack you or anyone else here.  There should be NO argument between you and I. So WTF??

You posted...

"You don't know my requirements or room dimensions or what I'm trying to achieve. I'm glad you've found what works best for you."

Damn dude... I already posted...

"-What I'm saying is that there are people (and the poster Carlman 'might' be in this position but I don't know his room, system, screen size he has or wants, etc...) who are probably best having their speakers pulled out several feet from the wall."

So you just told me EXACTLY what I already said? What kind of point do you think you made by doing that?

AND you just posted "My speakers can be about 2.5 feet from the back wall max."

Isn't that pretty much the 'several feet' I already posted too?

Why don't you think about why YOU are attacking me?? None of it makes any sense to me that's for sure.

"-Azryan, you make some good points in your first thread and I spent a good half hour or more deciding that flat panels just don't look as good as RPTV's at Circuit City. The value isn't there comparing them side-by-side."

Ok. Well... again... that's pretty much exactly what my opinion is on the subject.

"-So be it. It's my choice to spend more on something that takes a back seat to 2-channel listening."

Like I posted...  don't know what you bought.

I'm guessing a FP system then? Maybe you wrote it in this thread but I didn't read it.

I was writing not just for you but for others -as I said.

I knew this thread was about a month dead and figured you already made a choice on what display to buy so I never expected there to be much of a chance for my view to help you out personally, but maybe others looking into this issue.

"My goal was to remove a large object from between my speakers to improve imaging. Shokunin's responses mirror my reaction to your post."

But I countered so many things he said, including the one you just brought up.
You say you agree w/ him, but your failure to answer what I countered with also mirrors his failure then. Congrats.

Note- I wouldn't be harsh like am being w/ you if you hadn't just posted like you did.

"-Covering a TV with a blanket is your solution and I'm glad it works for you. I have other ways to handle room treatment."

Good for you then.
I offered other options to treating a room beyond what I personally do, so in case you missed that, let me make it clear that I certainly didn't say my way is best, or any such crap like that.

I just brought up the facts that need to be dealt with and a hard glass plasma set does not in iself improve imagine over a treated RPTV screen.
I don't know if you agree or not and don't care.

I also said that an untreated wall that a FP screen may be on also does not in itself improve 2-chan imagine over a treated RPTV set.

You seem to have a FP system now, but you also seem to imply to treat the wall somehow. Great. That's my point. We seem to not disagree on that issue yet you act like I'm attack people.

Am I attacking Bose owners to say Bose sucks for these specific reasons?
Some might say 'yes' but most hear would agree w/ me and know I'm trying to help people not buy poor value speakers.

That's very similar to what I'm trying to do here.

"-Different things work for different people. That's why different things are made. I'd prefer to keep this thread positive and helpful rather than getting lectures from easily angered people who don't know the whole story."

You took it as a lecture. That's not my fault. That's your hang up. It wasn't one at all.
You also took what I wrote to be angry but it wasn't. Again... that's your hang-up.

I certainly am tick-off by several things you wrote in your last post, but I'm still not angry.

I hate it when someone sees words written in CAPS (for emphaisis) and some exclamations and they just assume that person is flipping out and angry.
Just the fact that my posts are often more lengthy than others makes people think I'm some fierce angry zellot or something. Jeez.

Quit trying to guess people's emotions and state of mind from written posts. You're just guessing, and in this case wrong.

I stand behind my advice for other people looking at what displays to buy, and what diff. displays do to speaker imaging.

IMO, your last post degrades this thread in your attack of me, but we can all have out opinions on the actual thread topics.

At least Shokunin somewhat attempted to debate what he disagreed with.

[shokunin]

The point I was trying to convey, is that in my opinion, I'd prefer to have nothing between my speakers.   Between meaning right in the middle of the two speakers and anywhere 5' in front or behind that midpoint.

If you must have something there keep it as low as possible to reduce as many reflections from the critical midrange and tweeter output.  I'd prefer to NOT have any object, blanket covered or not between the speakers.  That would include, a CRT, RPTV, plasma, or uncovered FP screen.  However, not everyone can have dedicated audio and video rooms and many people incorporate video into their 2ch/MCH systems.  In  those instances I'd prefer in order, a drop-down electrical Screen, fixed FP screen with CURTAINS, plasma, then RPTV/CRT.   A fixed FP screen without curtains would probably be the worst as the screen itself is an highly reflective material.  

There are ways to treat an RPTV and azryan has a solution that works for him, a plasma owner could easily hang drapes/curtains to cover the plasma.  Josh made a great comment of using some foam to act not only as a way to treat the room acoustically but to cover the plasma as well.

I just saw a picture of custom install with a roll up/down tapestry to cover the Plasma using a Somfy motor and IR remote control, pretty cool.  The Plasma was recessed INTO the Wall and the tapestry is there hide it when not in use.

[Carlman]

blah blah blah......

I think it's very funny that you think I'm attacking yet you can't see yourself attacking.     While I appreciate some of the information in your posts on this topic, I don't appreciate the delivery method.... Another one of MY hangups.  

I do believe we agree on the value of RPTV over FP for their qualities.  However, there are other values to consider.  I assume others are capabable of making their own decisions based on their own set of criteria.  Your posts lead me to believe you do not have this faith in people.  This is my issue with your posts, which has nothing to do with your subjective opinions.  If you were able to be a little more conscientious about how you came across, I doubt I would have replied to what I viewed as an attack at all and, we could probably come to a decision rather than ramble opinion.