[macrojack]

I have a Technics SL-1000 MK II. It's the SP-10 MK II and the EPA-100 MK II. How does this compare to modern tables? Is it comparable to a VPI Scout? Better? Can't check out the new stuff around where I live so I decided to ask you guys. Twice I tried to start this thread on Audiogon and both times it ascended into the ether. No publication and no explanation.

[TheChairGuy]

Hate to send you away from AC, but here is where all the SP-10 owners of the world seem to be: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=16

I can't help you any more than that on that question, but plenty to seek out on that site.

John /TCG

[macrojack]

I had a look at that site. It would be like asking drunks if they like alcohol.

[TheChairGuy]

100% famine or a feast beyond measure...which do you prefer  aa

Do a search for your TT model on there.....there might have been someone else asking the same thing.  There's rarely an original thought with a 20+ year old TT...someone already covered it there, likely 

If not, oh well - we can just keep this banter up between us until some member among the 8400+ here notices it and has or knows your TT.

Sooooo, how's the weather where you are...it was partly cloudy and 58 F here just north of San Fran 

[macrojack]

Western Colorado near Grand Junction. It's dark here right now. Hoping for light by morning. Have begun to notice a cyclical pattern.
My table isn't especially rare, I wouldn't think. I have 5 turntables and three phono sections and a lot of cartridges and ancillaries. It entered my mind last year that the reason direct drive left the forefront of turntable offerings had more to do with fashion and reviewers than actual inferiority. In the 70s almost every company that made tables, made both belt and DD tables but the DD was usually the flagship with the best performance figures. Then heavy duty belt drive units like SOTA, Oracle, VPI, etc. appeared on the scene with suspensions. Suddenly the DD tables began to fall from favor. I do not believe, however, that they were ever really bettered though. Now the modern belt drive again has no suspension and that makes me wonder if a
vintage DD might not squash a modern belt unit for a fraction of the price.
One of my tables is a Well Tempered Reference and I like my old Technics better.
Snowed here last night. Melted away today. Typical activity around these parts. Good place to retire.

[TheChairGuy]

I bought a tenderly used VPI Mark III with totally upgraded Rega 250 arm (Cardas wiring, Expressimo VTA and end stub).  I replaced the slightly worn motor and carefully applied Tufoil to the bearing.  $850 invested or so (sans cartridge); it sounded good.

Then, almost on a lark, I bought a 25 year old JVC DD (with vertical and horizontal damped tonearm) for $100.00....the VPI hasn't been heard from since. fyi - JVC is wholly owned subsidiary of Matsushita/Panasonic/Technics, et al and has loads of Panny parts inside. Auto-return is wonderful, too 

I occasionally get the urge to hook the VPI up again (I did around of A vs B tests a while back), but I'm so happy with this JVC, the VPI continues to gather dust.  The reviewers had a hand in it, but I think it just was the big Japanese manufacturers stopped making TT's as it was uneconomical to do so.  Little 'specialist' TT makers have to make belt drive...it takes huge R & D dollars and great precision to make a DD.  That's the real reason we have mostly belt drivers to choose from.

San Fran is lovely; most folks would love to retire here.  However, it is so rediculously expensive here, very few can.  I read this weekend only 15% of the Bay area can afford an average home here 

EDIT: it's 12%, not 15%, able to afford the average home here in San Fran 

[shep]

Here in Southern France it is an overcast morning, with a promise of light rain. The temp. is a pleasant 60°. The forcast for the week is unseasonable mild. I know what it is like when a posting of mine, one that I have labored to make interesting, one that I really care about (hear that you TL owners?) descends inexorably down the page until it disappears for ever from view. So...since I take a perverse interest in things of yore and things I can't afford...I would absolutely love to have one of those old high end TT offerings from the late 80's. When I read about the KAB Technics offerings I felt my hand inching of its own accord towards my wallet and I had to immediately go to the gym and call my therapist. Like you TCG, I had a tweaked old VPI but never had the chance to compare it to a DD. I assumed if it was difficult to set up, heavy and run by a rubber band, it had to be better! I believe the climate is out of kilter and we're kidding ourselves if we think it will just go away. The rain has stopped...

[Derockster]

Hi guys,I using a technics sp25 DD TT with an sme series 111 pick-up arm with  damping trough  and a  shure v15 type v cartridge soon to be replaced with a grado silver.I love this TT and never had the desire to change to anything else.Regards Derockster

[Derockster]

FYI It's bright and sunny here in Barbados.Nice day for the beach. aa

[shep]

  lucky U. Here in France the rain has given way to low-lying fog. I can't remember who it was back then, maybe Denon or Micro-Sekei, buy for a few years they were trying to out do each other. I guess it was a lost cause, came too late, just as Digital was gathering steam. Some of the weirder examples were from Nakamich and another from Trio (the hi end of Kenwood). One tried to center your records and the other did something even stranger. But, I'll bet there are some real treasures still waiting to be rediscovered in people's closets. Let's not give them the chance to triple the price by telling them how good they are!

[shep]

still sleeping aa? So I can say what I like? Well it's not really off-topic and I'm all pumped up from the gym so I gotta do something (like exercise my fingers)! We know the "old" TT's hold up well with time, as do the carts. since there has been little real revolutionary stuff happening there...just evolutionary. I wonder though about the phono amps of the same vintage. There were some pretty pricey offerings back then and there are only so many ways you can amplify a wee signal and most of them already existed. Aside from a few, most SS gear has disappeared off the screen from that period (I'm talking late 70's until late 80's). Tube gear we know keeps being resurrected and recycled endlessly.
There are some sites I've save related to "old" and rare hi-end gear from back then, mostly Sony and Trio. I heard one of the Sony amp./pre sets which was VERY expensive and sounded wonderful. This would be in 83'. The dealer in question wouldn't have anything to do with US or British TT's as he considered his spoon fed clients (this was in Switzerland) didn't need the agro. and fiddle but wanted a pretty TT that worked out of the box. He was into Micro- Sekei in a big way. Now that I think of it, there are for sure some treasures in Swiss attics! Just markingtime until you all wake up and take it from here aa

[macrojack]

I've got a closet full. Let the prices rise.

Part of what I was wondering in this thread is how the new Monaco or Teres DD tables might compare to my SP-10. They sell for about $20K, I think. If the performance is even close, the Technics would be a steal at its current market price.
Add to that the fact that the SP-10 is a proven time tested design and the others are from small ambitious companies with relatively meager R&D capabilities.

[TheChairGuy]

Hi guys,I using a technics sp25 DD TT with an sme series 111 pick-up arm with  damping trough  and a  shure v15 type v cartridge soon to be replaced with a grado silver.I love this TT and never had the desire to change to anything else.Regards Derockster

Derockster,

The Grado Silver will probably sound splendid with that combo...Grado's thrive in damped arms.  As Grado's have very low inductance for MM/MI cartridges they are best terminated into 10K or so inputs.  The wallowing (yet prominent) bass they sometimes are know for is often because they are not critically damped electrically.  Terminate it at 10K and the bass tightens up (focuses other performance parameters, too) at the slight expense of it's 'expansiveness'.

Your Shure is a high inductance design (I think they are 500mh or over) and best terminated into the bog standard 47K inputs on most MM phono stages.

As they are not great trackers, you can add the van Alstine Longhorn stabilizer and improve that aspect of their performance.  Adding a layer of Plasti-Clay between headshell and cartridge will further improve performance (rather amazingly efficient tweeks these last two are)