[macrojack]

db cooper - Micro Acoustics claim to fame was their moving micro cross. I don't know what that was but I remember selling them on the strength of that claim.

[Wind Chaser]

Weren't Micro Acoustics carts also "strain gauge" designs? Seems I remember they were unusual in some design aspect.

Those were electret condensers , a strain gauge is an entirely different concept.

[Kevin Haskins]

[
Kevin Haskins - Ignorance is bliss (agreed); in the case of the Grado Green it is also pretty smart financially.  I posted this elsewhere on AC after talking to Grado yesterday and you may not have seen it:

I only get time to skim the forums at the most.   Didn't see the thread but I'm not surprised.   Firebaugh turned me onto the Grado and he has monkeyed around with more cartridges than I'll ever consider. 

[TheChairGuy]

Yeah, 'tis a good one, that Green (nice Green-faced grin)

Among the six that I have here (I don't know how the hell I accumulated that many as I've only been back to vinyl for 2 years now  ) only the Grado Green and a 20 year old Grace F-9e ($200 in 1980 or so....3x+ the cost of the Green today) could I live with long term.  The others don't measure up as well.

[Danberg]

As an old timer at this, back in the late 70's or early 80's I purchased a Grado and didn't care for it's sound at all.  Very bland, with no high end as I recall.  Much preferred the sound of Audio Technica XLE40 or Audio Technica AT122LP on my Kenwood KD-550 Turntable (concrete? resin base?).

Recently purchased a have a Clearaudio Champion TT with Rega 300 (OEM) arm, and Micro Benz Ace M cart (low output) paired with Monolithic PS-1 Phono Pre.  Any opinions on how the Grado Green or Sliver would sound in comparison?

Would entertain trying other carts, but don't have much to spend.  Audiogon a place to try or should I consider only "new" carts?  Any general info?

[macrojack]

I have some unopened Grado cartridges I don't need. Interested parties PM me.
Used cartridges online are pretty much a crap shoot.

[2wo]

Wow, this is a trip down memory lane. I too used the Panasonic Roland combo. There were two setups. One was a bare board with a simple shelving filter and  the other a nicely made rack mount box with a 70’s SOTA fet based circuit. At the time it retired my Denon 103D and I used it till I ran out of replacement stylus...John         

[Wind Chaser]

Wow, this is a trip down memory lane. I too used the Panasonic Roland combo. There were two setups. One was a bare board with a simple shelving filter and  the other a nicely made rack mount box with a 70’s SOTA fet based circuit. At the time it retired my Denon 103D and I used it till I ran out of replacement stylus...John         

Just a wild crap shot guess - but might that be the required replacement stylus?

[macrojack]

Judging from memory and the provided description, I would say that is the very one. I still have some old ones in a box somewhere. If I get a chance today, I will try to find one of them to verify.
2wo - Who are you? I think I knew every Rowland customer in those early days.

[Kevin Haskins]

As an old timer at this, back in the late 70's or early 80's I purchased a Grado and didn't care for it's sound at all.  Very bland, with no high end as I recall.  Much preferred the sound of Audio Technica XLE40 or Audio Technica AT122LP on my Kenwood KD-550 Turntable (concrete? resin base?).

Recently purchased a have a Clearaudio Champion TT with Rega 300 (OEM) arm, and Micro Benz Ace M cart (low output) paired with Monolithic PS-1 Phono Pre.  Any opinions on how the Grado Green or Sliver would sound in comparison?

Would entertain trying other carts, but don't have much to spend.  Audiogon a place to try or should I consider only "new" carts?  Any general info?

I'm sure it is a situation where if you change arms/tables you end up with different cartridges that work for a given set-up.  Probably as much preference, system dynamics and general voodoo & how the stars align as it is better or worse.   

My table is a pile of unfinished yet machined MDF.   The arm is made from aluminum tubing ordered from McMaster-Carr and filled with sand.   The motor is out of a DVD player with a servo circuit.   Its not much to look at but it but I love it.   Need to get out and scrounge up more vinyl but kids, bills and life seems to get in the way.

[Wind Chaser]

Macrojack and 2wo

The one thing that I didn't like about my strain gauge is that everytime the cartridge / stylus required servicing, it along with the control center had to be shipped off to Van Nuys, CA to be recalibrated.  Is / was that an issue with the Roland Research system?

[macrojack]

The Panasonic cartridge was a cheap little plastic thing with a stumpy cantilever and a plug-in stylus. I think it was originally designed for 4 channel. In any case, I never heard about any calibration and consequently never had any. I wonder if I needed it.

[slbender]

The Micro Acoustic's Company made the micropoint cutting stylus's that were used by most of the record industry to cut record masters, and also about fourteen different fairly expensive (for back in the 1970's) $99.-$335. electret cartridges during the mid-to-late 1970's and into the mid-1980's.  These consumer products were an offshoot of ceramic' cartridges but MA called them electret, but in reality it was more of a high output ceramic, which had some micro-circuit resistors to tone it down into the millivolt range. Still, quite an interesting concept, but then how is a strain-gauge different???

I was just lucky to get three like new MA Carts, with perfect looking Beryllium stylus bars, while I haven't tried any of them yet, I will definately start listening about a month from now, when I get my custom TT rack up and running, and my new SET Amp designs finished. Then, I'll give them a listen, both in my Thorens and my hot rodded (but butt-ugly) AR-XA.

So far, for the last ten or twelve years, or so, my fav cartridge is the B&O SP 12 MM, with the naked diamond .2 x.7 elliptical tip; MicroCross symmetrical armature and balanced push-pull magnetic circuit, circa: 1973.  Mine came with an individually run Bruel & Kjoer response curve printout dated October 16th, 1973, showing it to be quite flat: both channels were within +2.0/-1.5dB from 20 Hz. to 20 Khz. and about +/-1dB from 100 Hz. to 20 Khz. with the Right being even slightly better than the Left channel. The SP 12 has a recommended VTF of 1.0 g, but I use 1.25 g. in a lightweight carbon fiber arm (Japanese).

-Steven L. Bender

Weren't Micro Acoustics carts also "strain gauge" designs? Seems I remember they were unusual in some design aspect.

Those were electret condensers, a strain gauge is an entirely different concept.

[macrojack]

slbender - Thanks for providing clarification. I muddied the facts a bit with my crappy memory.

[Wind Chaser]

how is a strain-gauge different???

From what I recall, John Iverson of Electro Research explained it like this.  Instead of the phono cartridge sending a signal to a preamp, a strain gauge cartridge receives a Pure Class A signal from the control center.  As the stylus tracks the groove, the mechanical energy puts stress on the in coming signal and... ?? - the rest eludes me at this time, but that's the basic gist of it. 

[TheChairGuy]

It's phenomenally long, but this is Sound-Smith's version of what a Strain Gauge is and does (and it's advantages):

http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/sg.html

Interestingly Steve/slbender, they are B & O's authorized reseller (re-manufacturer) now, as well.

[Wind Chaser]

That's an excellent article.  One of the other advantages I now recall that he didn't address in the article was the noise floor with a SG is much lower.  Certainly not on par with digital, but considerably quieter than a typical MM or MC.  His closing statement, "Once you hear one.....once the performers appear in your living room, you will want them to visit you again and again." is very true.

To attain that level of performance requires equally high performance (electrostatic fast) speakers, amps etc.  Then it all has to be set up "right" or the result can be very ho-humish.