[Affordable$$Audio]

Recently, I read an oline discussion about quality audio companies failure to lure in newbies due to cost.  Taking that idea, could/should a company, say McIntosh, develop an introductory line (built in the USA) that would lure in the next generation of audio buyers?

[JoshK]

If they did, would they be able to offer more performance than a mid-fi receiver?  mid-fi nowadays is not half bad (not great either) and has the economy of scale (marantz, denon, yamaha, sony, etc), so it is hard to best without stepping up pretty big in $$.  Then there is Cambridge, NAD, Rotel, etc. 

[Soundbitten]

No , I don't think they should drag their name down like some other companies did .

[TONEPUB]

They do have an entry level integrated, the 6300.

Some of you might not consider $3000 entry level, but for 100wpc,
McIntosh style and those big blue meters, (plus an MM phono stage
and a headphone preamp) it's quite reasonable.

Especially when you put it up against a Naim 5i, or a few of the other
small integrateds that are in the 15-2200 range...

Not to mention Mac build quality, resale and it's built here in the USA.

Im floored that they can build something this good for $3k.

I agree with Soundbitten.  They sell everything they can build right
now because it is a prestigious commodity.  Jaguar made this mistake
by building an "entry level" car and drove away all of the demand for
their higher priced models.

Macintosh gear isn't budget gear, never has been.  That's why they
hold their value on the used market so well..

[Zero]

Throw my opinion into the pool that a company like McIntosh should stick with their forte. They have a lot of history with home audio; being one of the single most recognized high end electronics manufacturers on the planet. Even those who take their first steps into the world of better sound will be familiar with those glowing blue power meters. McIntosh has created a foundation few can lay claim to; they have remained consistent in offering exceptional products with the same general look that has satisfied generations of audiophiles.  Even mighty companies such as Wharfdale and JBL have caved in to produce mediocre gear for the masses. McIntosh have always remained true to their stripes; and for yours truly, I’d like to see them keep it that way.

Let companies, like the excellent Polk Audio – take the reigns in drawing peoples attention towards better sound. That is their goal, and it is one shared by many groups. McIntosh has accomplished success without a compromise to their mission, and it would be a sad day to see them dipping down into the whiz-bang toys that attract the general population.

[Zero]

Jeff,

I have been smitten with that 6300. I wonder if they would also be willing to have their product reviewed in Affordable Audio...    Oh hell I'm just being self-centered at this point...  I just want one in my house!   

[TONEPUB]

Give them a call!  That's the only way to find out.
I'll tell you this, it took us three years to get in the door
with McIntosh, so don't be put off if they aren't responsive
at first...

Always worth a phone call though.  All they can do is
say yes or no.

[Zero]

Jeff,

You speak the truth. There are still dues to pay however, I will take the plunge when the cred rises a bit.

Congrats on getting that piece in for review Jeff - thats a big milestone

[Affordable$$Audio]

Fascinating thoughts.  In McIntosh's case, they need to stick with what they do best.  Plus, if one takes the opportunity to look around the manufacturers here on AC, I think we can all find a few companies who offer some outstanding affordable pieces.

[maxwalrath]

I agree.  Rotel, NAD, Marantz, Cambridge et al should be doing a better job marketing, as should the local hi-fi shops.

[warnerwh]

Whenever I see a company like Mac start producing cheaper gear it always makes me think where else are they cutting costs? It could be anywhere. The company loses respect from me. When I had been young in the 70's I salivated for Mac gear. I've never owned any even though I may some day. If they start making crap then I wouldn't buy from them.

I realize this makes no sense in a logical perspective. I don't regard a company as highly that makes cheap stuff as well as nice high end products.

[mikethep]

I've listened to the 6300. I live near Binghamton, NY. I also owned a 6900 for about
a year. The 6300 was disappointing. Very sterile, I thought. It also has a wimpy headphone
section. It had trouble driving AKG 701s. Wasn't wild about the 6900 either. Replaced it
with Quad 99/Quad 909. Huge increase in clarity, realism, etc. Replaced those with a used
Van Alstine Transcendence 7 and a Van Alstine FET valve 550 amplifier. Another big increase
in sound quality. Total cost of the  Van Alstine stuff (or the Quad amp/preamp) less than
the 6300 would be. Van Alstine made in U.S.A. also, if that matters. Actually not so sure
what "made in the U.S.A." really means in the case of the 6300. Sorry to be so negative.
I think that for $3000 (or whatever the probably only slightly discounted price would be) you could do
way better!

[Affordable$$Audio]

Funny thing about McIntosh, how people have such strong feelings about them.  I've only had the opportunity to hear their equipment once.  I can't really give an opinion, guess I'll just have to hunt something down and get in a review.

[guest1632]

Recently, I read an oline discussion about quality audio companies failure to lure in newbies due to cost.  Taking that idea, could/should a company, say McIntosh, develop an introductory line (built in the USA) that would lure in the next generation of audio buyers?

Hi, In the mid 70's Mac did come out with a lower end receiver. I had a MA6100 Integrated with an MR74 tuner. If I had known it at the time, I could have gotten the MR78 tuner for not to much more.
My Mac equipment was stolen about three years later. They did unfortunately leave my ML1C speakers.

I have forgotten what they called the new lower end line. If memory serves me right, it didn't have the glass fronts.it. It was an experiment. This was before Clarion bought them out. If Clarion hadn't infused them with some capital, Mac would not be here today.

That MR78 was rummored to be a copy of an old fisher tuner. However a guy doing his thesis updated that tuner with filters that were ahead of there time. Ah, so much for a little history.

Regards,
Ray

[JLM]

I had a solid state McIntosh integrated in the 70s, built like a tank, sounded like a dog.  But it took my breath away when I stumbled onto a C28 pre, MR78 tuner, and big McIntosh amp with the blue meters at a friends house a couple of years back.

Agree that McIntosh (and similar companies) shouldn't sell out.  IMO these sorts of companies are poorly suited to compete in a lower priced market segment.  AVA and CIA are more realistic models for hand built in America, audiophile quality sound products at lower prices.  To drop in price much below them you're into cheaper labor costs (cottage industry/sideline guys to stay in America).  The cottage industry guys lose the cost advantage if they get popular enough to need to grow much.  And you still need connections or substantial in-house facilities to build transports (beyond USB converters) or fancy (expensive) cabinets.  That "built like a tank" aspect requires unnecessary expense for home electronics.

Shanling introduced a slick product at CES 07 to fit this market, the MC-30 (I believe).  Styled like their CDP's, it's a CDP/3 wpc integrated tube amp with iPod cradle that takes up half the footprint and will retail with speakers and remote for $1000.  If the Chinese can learn the U.S. market wants, we could be buried in stuff like this. 

[Affordable$$Audio]

I've been waiting for a company to integrate an iPod dock into a unit.  I know that Apple charges a pretty hefty license to do so which has discouraged many manufacturers.  I see it as a way to bridge the iPod generation into home audio, but only time will tell.

[TONEPUB]

I've listened to the 6300. I live near Binghamton, NY. I also owned a 6900 for about
a year. The 6300 was disappointing. Very sterile, I thought. It also has a wimpy headphone
section. It had trouble driving AKG 701s.  Actually not so sure
what "made in the U.S.A." really means in the case of the 6300. Sorry to be so negative.
I think that for $3000 (or whatever the probably only slightly discounted price would be) you could do
way better!

All McIntosh gear is made in the US at their factory.  They do not outsource anything to the best of my knowledge. 

No offense, but I don't think you really understand the McIntosh thing at all. There are a number of things out there that sound better than any given McIntosh at any given price point. (However the new mk.5 version of the MC275 is quite exceptional) 

What you are buying with McIntosh is a product with a pedigree that is very well built, exquisitely finished and has a specific look, feel and functionality.  It is also a product that keeps its resale value longer than any other piece of hifi gear on the planet.

Keep in mind I am not a dyed in the wool Mac owner, so I'm not sticking up for "my brand".  McIntosh doesn't advertise in TONE either, so I'm not sticking up for that either....

The thing I have noticed about the Mac stuff is that it has a stately elegance about it and often has a lot more features and functionality.  I have also spent a few years talking to a lot of McIntosh owners.  They are fiercely loyal and honestly for the most part aren't audiophiles.  The only other place I have ever seen this kind of product loyalty is with Harley Davidson motorcycles, which are by no stretch of the imagination the world's best (made, engineered, performing, etc) motorcycles, but people love them just the same.

Also, McIntosh is one of the few mfrs. in high end audio that can fix your 30 year old McIntosh product.
(the only other two I know of are Conrad-Johnson and Audio Research)

McIntosh is what it is and yes you can get more fidelity out of other pieces of gear for the same money, but it won't have the look, feel and ease of use that a McIntosh component.  That's what their audience wants and they have been delivering it for 50 years.  Whenever we have requested a McIntosh component, we usually have to wait a couple of months to get it, because every production run is sold out!

I guarantee you will never have a problem getting a piece of McIntosh gear in the living room past your wife either!

So in the end, there are different options for different reasons.  If you want a killer integrated amp for $3000, check out the Predator from Valve Audio.  It's amazing.  If you want a pretty good amp that will look gorgeous in your living room, sound pretty good that you can hand down to your grandson and he will still be able to get $3000 bucks for it on Ebay 30 years from now, get the Mac.

It's just a matter of taste....