[bprice2]

I am very curious why there has not been one respected professional reviewer who has written about the fully tweaked-out Bolder modified SB2 with the Ultimate PS.

You don't see a lot of professional reviews of modded gear. With good reason. For about six months Boulder was coming out with a different flavor of the mods and power supply designs about once a week, with about a half-dozen variations on each. Who the hell wants to deal with that?  It's bad enough dealing with the mkII's and mkIII's and mkIV's and 'special editions' and other crap that major manufacturers come up with only to sell new products.  And _those_ generally only come out every few years.

You're right...that's a good point.  But I think I can come close to paraphrasing you by saying, this is a new technology that is just now coming into its own.  It is ever improving and changing at a rapid rate. 

However, this is the future...not just for sonics, but also for ease of use. 

[ctviggen]

I have a transport and a tube-based CD player, along with two SBs (one modded; one unmodded). I NEVER listen to my transport or CD player, unless I just purchased the CD. 

[JoshK]

I have a SB2 and a Sony XA777ES SACD player.... the 777 is going up for sale as soon as I finish my CD-Pro2 transport for spinning new CDs.  SACD's just don't hit my genre of music, so there is little available I want.  I'd buy more SACDs if all the new music I want was offered in this format, but it isn't.

[mcgsxr]

I'm putting this in Central because I don't want to start a fight in Square.....

Maybe it's my age (I'll be 49 in May), but I don't understand the whys of downloading all of my music onto a server.  And I really don't understand why I'd then want to transmit the datastream via Wi-Fi.  I spent years getting RF out of my system, why do I want to inject it back in?  Please don't tell me it's ease-of-use, I don't see anything difficult in loading a cd, or more liklely placing an lp onto my turntable.  There isn't any sonic benefit that I can see, esp. since I'd have to buy a server and probably a PC.

Maybe I don't see it because I spend all day on a computer and don't want to do the same when I get home...but I'm serious here, why???

Valid questions, and well thought out.

For the record, I will be 37 in July, and spend most of my days on a PC also.  I already owned a home PC though, so no extra h/w was required for me.  I also use the SB3 itself as the interface, 2 floors below my PC, so I don't feel that I AM using a PC when I use this toy.

As for why (other than the AMAZING simplicity of having all your music literally at your fingertips, which you already dismiss as inconsequential) use a server, that is harder to get to.

If you really are attached to the process of retreiving, loading, and listening, then there may not be a reason to invest.

If you don't think the preservation of the quality of the music, in concert with that convenience, and the ability to share it across multiple systems simultaneously is an advantage for you, then it is not.

Would the idea that you won't scratch the original cd ever again, since you won't have to handle it be an advantage?  You could still always wander over to the cd rack, and review the liner notes etc, while streaming the music to your system/systems.

How about the idea of the music that is currently not available from other sources as readily - the streaming content from other areas of the world Bob, is that an advantage for you?

In the end, lots of different reasons, for different folks, but perhaps not ultimately for you!

[Brian T.]

> 3)  No piles of CDs, covers, albums, jackets laying around

That's a benefit??? I *like* my piles of CD's, covers, albums, and jackets!

I'm 47 and believe this a technological leap that I probably won't make. I have officially become "old school"!

As a well established member of the 'old school' at 54, I am firmly in the other camp.  I initially digitised my collection because with nearly 1000 CDs, I spent all of my time looking for particular albums.  (Do you run your eye down rows of CDs and don't see the album you want because you are convinced that it is the colour it isn't?!)  I have spent the last few months fine tuning my Slim Server set-up ready for my first SB3 due next week.  (Hats off to Slim Devices for giving SoftSqueeze away free.)  Slim Server allows me to browse album art on my PDA and then play my selection.  Go back to a discrete CDP - No fear!  My only criticism is not being able to play DVD-As at their native resolution.  I can’t afford multiple Transporters but am looking closely at http://netgear.com/Products/Entertainment/DigitalMediaPlayers/EVA8000.aspx


Brian

[budyog]

Thanks BobRex for bringing this up. It is something I have just been thinking about.
My thoughts have been, if the music that is on a CD, by putting it on your computer, (which I have been, explained below) for then why not just get a gizmo to extract it and a good DAC and remove that mechanical/laser CD player from the equation and I can’t see how it would sound worse, if not better!
I have extracted all my Cds for a system called Omnifi I have in my garage 135 feet away with a CAT5 cable running from my computer to the Omnifi. It sounds quite good and very easy to operate, sometimes it is a little hassle finding something but it is a bit on the old. I first extracted my CDs at the 128 bit rate, now I was starting to extract them at 256 because I heard a degrading in the sound, now I might start over and extract at CD quality for this type of future change for me, correct?
Here are some of my questions and I wish some of you would not use so many abbreviations because we 49 year olds don’t know what the heck they are!
I will be 49 in a month! 
What is the difference between a Squeezebox and an Olive unit?
Living in a densely populated city, I am not sure I want to go wireless because of interference, is that a problem? It is with my new wireless home phone system!
When the music is all extracted to the computer you must have that on at all times to play your system, not crazy about that, is that where the Olive unit comes in? Does the Olive unit actually store the music?
If I don’t go wireless, do I have to run a CAT5 to the Squeezebox? If that is the case, does any part of the computer quality come into play with the sound quality? My computer is at least 80 wire feet away from my system.
Could someone explain the connection processes in layman’s terms for us 49 year olds? This does have my interest.
Thanks

[JohnnyLightOn]

Re some comments along the lines of, "I'm a tube guy so I don't want to run a digital front end.": There's no reason a digital front end can't mix with tubes. 

I run my Squeezebox 3 with Bolder-modded linear power supply into a battery-powered Ack! dAck! 2.0 DAC with ultra-resolution option into an Onix SP3 tube amp with Telefunken smooth plate input tubes.  So we have digital and battery power and tubes all in the same system.  And it sounds great!

[Marbles]

I run my Dac-1 into a Dodd battery powered tube based pre...

[JoshK]

If I don’t go wireless, do I have to run a CAT5 to the Squeezebox?

Yes, this is what I am doing, even though my SB has the wireless option.

If that is the case, does any part of the computer quality come into play with the sound quality? My computer is at least 80 wire feet away from my system.

No.  The computer is isolated from the signal, which is part of the charm.  This isn't always the case with USB from what I've read.

[Marbles]

No.  The computer is isolated from the signal, which is part of the charm.  This isn't always the case with USB from what I've read.

My USB cable causes a ground loop when I play my integrated HT system.  I have to unplug the USB at my DAC to silence it.  Even a cheater plug on my cpu doesn't work.  The computer system and 2 channel/HT are on different circuits.   

[JohnnyLightOn]

Cat-5 cable from my computer to the Squeezebox doesn't seem to be affected by either noise in the computer or run length.

[John Casler]

Here are some of my questions and I wish some of you would not use so many abbreviations because we 49 year olds don’t know what the heck they are!
I will be 49 in a month! 

What is the difference between a Squeezebox and an Olive unit?

Hi Budyog,

The OLIVE Media Servers are "freestanding" units and do not require a separate computer.

Living in a densely populated city, I am not sure I want to go wireless because of interference, is that a problem?

I have both the OPUS and MUSICA and use a hardwired connection, although they will do wireless too.

It is with my new wireless home phone system!
When the music is all extracted to the computer you must have that on at all times to play your system, not crazy about that, is that where the Olive unit comes in? Does the Olive unit actually store the music?

That was my deal too.  You not only have to have a fairly big HD, but the computer has to be on all the time, or booted up (mine takes 5 minutes now days) just to listen to something.

The OLIVE units have CD player/burners, and their own Hard Drive and Microprocessor.  They also have the Internet Radio if you connect to a wired or wireless Router.

If I don’t go wireless, do I have to run a CAT5 to the Squeezebox?

I ran Cat6e Networking cable (25' for $7)  I only ran it to get Internet Radio and to be able to control my OLIVE from my office, and make playlists and such from my desk.

If that is the case, does any part of the computer quality come into play with the sound quality?

WHile I haven't heard of problems, I would think if you share a 250G drive on your computer with your Office Projects and Spreadsheets, eventually it will have an effect, if you load 200-300 CDs.  Likely you would want a separate or new and larger HD.

My computer is at least 80 wire feet away from my system.

I have used 20, 30, and 50 foot leads with no difference.

Could someone explain the connection processes in layman’s terms for us 49 year olds? This does have my interest.
Thanks

I don't know about the SB, but with the OLIVE, all I had to do was plug one end of the cable (Cat 6e) into a router, and the other into my OLIVE.

It is not that hard. (if I can do it)

[Daygloworange]

Could someone explain the connection processes in layman’s terms for us 49 year olds? This does have my interest.
Thanks

I have a separate 250 gig hard drive, a wireless router, a laptop running SlimServer, and the SB 3 running wirelessly.

One wire from the hard drive to the router. Streaming to the SB via the router. I can control the SB either by remote, or from my laptop which is run wireless as well. Simple.

Cheers

[zybar]

Cat-5 cable from my computer to the Squeezebox doesn't seem to be affected by either noise in the computer or run length.

Nor should it...   

George

[cytocycle]

No.  The computer is isolated from the signal, which is part of the charm.  This isn't always the case with USB from what I've read.

My USB cable causes a ground loop when I play my integrated HT system.  I have to unplug the USB at my DAC to silence it.  Even a cheater plug on my cpu doesn't work.  The computer system and 2 channel/HT are on different circuits.   

Put them both on the same circuit, disconnect your coax Cable for your TV (check for ground hum), start breaking ground on each component starting with lowest current draw, use cheater plugs.  If you have monoblock amplifiers, you might have to break the ground on one of the monoblocks.  Otherwise go to a Toslink cable instead of a Coax digital (at least it won't hum). I hate power problems

[Marbles]

No.  The computer is isolated from the signal, which is part of the charm.  This isn't always the case with USB from what I've read.

My USB cable causes a ground loop when I play my integrated HT system.  I have to unplug the USB at my DAC to silence it.  Even a cheater plug on my cpu doesn't work.  The computer system and 2 channel/HT are on different circuits.   

Put them both on the same circuit, disconnect your coax Cable for your TV (check for ground hum), start breaking ground on each component starting with lowest current draw, use cheater plugs.  If you have monoblock amplifiers, you might have to break the ground on one of the monoblocks.  Otherwise go to a Toslink cable instead of a Coax digital (at least it won't hum). I hate power problems

No more room on the HT/2 channel circuit until I can get an electrician out to move some breakers to the other side of the box.

Checked the CATV..properly grounded, tried a cheater plug on the CPU..didn't work.
Looks like that Fiber Optic USB cable might be my long term solution.  Short term, I just unplug the USB cable going into my DAC when I want to watch a movie.

Thanks for the help.

[JoshK]

If your HT/2channel box is a dedicated box, then shut off the incoming breaker, usually indicated by the 100amp service breakers and then you can move them over yourself.  Be careful to stay clear of the incoming huge wires to the 100amp breakers as those are still live (and will kill you in a heartbeat) but typically the breakers are a distance from them. 

[Marbles]

Thanks, but a man has to know his limitations...I like livin' just fine 

[TomS]

Thanks, but a man has to know his limitations...I like livin' just fine 

OK Rob, if you try that electrician thing yourself, tell the wife I want the Dodd

[JLM]

I’m 50, went SB and am now back to using a CDP.

Convenience, cost, access to internet audio streaming channels, and sound quality from modded SB’s are all no-brainer advantages and cannot be denied.  (BTW the sound quality advantages come from the superior ability of the PC to read a disc over CDPs.)

Shoot-out reviews with high-end CDP’s won’t happen as those vendors have too much to lose and would give up their financial support to the reviewing organizations.

I went back to CDP because of the setup and maintenance frustrations:

1.)   Everyone says it’s easy (that irked me to no end), but only for an IT guy or a young geek.  I’m an engineer but can barely keep my PC running between viruses, my incompetence, and sharing the home network.  It was only by the grace of a fellow ACer who spent hours with me over the phone that I got it to work the first time. 
2.)   Kept having home network issues, tried a wired connection (make sure you read the SB instructions and get the right cable), but still had issues.
3.)   My modded SB would get a headache with some of the internet streaming channels that would take the whole thing down.
4.)   Once I got into a SB menu and it took days to “find my way out”.
5.)   It would take weeks for me to fumble into a solution and was never quite sure how it happened in the first place or how I eventually “fixed” it.
6.)   With SB only, you must rip to listen, even if it’s a disc you’d only rarely want to listen to.  Not that big a deal, but it makes navigation that much tougher as the collection would get to be 3 or 4 times as big.  So IMO the smaller drives in the Olives aren’t as much of a limitation as would first appear.
7.)   I hated being days without music and not knowing if I could ever get it back.

I’ll go back to a music server as soon as they become friendly enough while keeping sound quality up and cost down.  Olive should be close to what I want, but recent support horror stories and the need for internet/home network connection for streaming has kept me away.  Stock prices for the Olives are OK, but to get the sound quality I crave the cost/reliability of mods make me worry.  Being able to use the Olive as a CDP takes care of frustration #6.

So sadly I spent the same to give up internet streaming, sound quality, and convenience of SB to go with a used CDP because I dreaded not knowing when the next glitch would pop up and if I’d get my music back.