[In The Groove]

Anyone have experience with cartridge break-in?  Is it like other audio equipment?

[gooberdude]

I have no clue if the actual cartridge breaks in, but it sure seems like the stylus suspension does to me.

in the last 2 months i've purchased 2 new cartridges, both sounded congested and stiff (sterile) the first 2 weeks.   After about 30 LP's the soundstage opened up and the bass began a rockin'.

IMO, the sonic signature of stylus' breaking in is similar to what i've experienced other new gear.

[chosenhandle]

my transfiguration took over 150 hours before it sounded "right".

It started out awesome, then turned "peaky" after an hour or so. It slowly got better till had about 150 hours logged on it. For what its worth, they warned me it would happen.

[TheChairGuy]

You might want to duck the response on this one, In The Groove 

There will be less rancor than if you asked about cables or electronic break-in, however....every cartridge I've ever owned benefits from 20+ hours of run-in. As it is a mechanical device (suspension, et al), it will benefit from run in much as a speaker would. 

More debatable to many folks is whether it's electrical properties internally benefit from break in....there are typically hundreds of feet of wire glued to those coils inside...far more than any run of speaker, interconnect or power cable for 'break-in' purposes.

[In The Groove]

Great point ChairGuy.  I'm experienced with cables and have a view on the break-in phonomena.  Incidentally the break-in of capacitors has been proven by Hovland.

I suspected the coils would require some break-in.

[TheChairGuy]

Yup, I've been an ear'ed witness to break in for wire (don't know if it's the dielectric itself or interaction with the insulation, tho), caps....and speakers and cartridges as they are mechanical devices, for sure.

The coil windings are of uninsulated wire.....so break in is not due to dielectric, and due only to insulation interaction (this is my suspicion as solid core magnet wire with extremely thin insulation requires exceedingly small break-in times), then break in would be of mechanical nature only.

So many camps on the break-in phenomenon...and I don't know if there is test equipment (commonly) available to prove either side 

[Scott F.]

Hey John,

Don't forget that the cantilever (and its isolators) also have a mechanical compliance that requires some break in too. As the cantilever moves back and forth and up and down within the groove, the material it is made of becomes slightly more compliant (or bends easier) which will also effect the way the cart tracks and in turn how it retrieves the buried info in the grooves.

[eric the red]

While you guys are at it... How long does a stylus last on average?

[roboss]

Yes, they have a break-in time like most components. I bought a new Benz a couple of months ago, and the break-in period was 100-200 hours. The sound of the cartridge changed for the better as I got more hours on it.

Bobby 

[slbender]

Hi,

To kill two Vinyl questions with one stone ....

Probably cartridges do break in, because unlike just about all other audio other components, ( except for permalloy tape heads ) the diamond in a stylus does wear maybe a slight bit for every 50 hours of use, so the contact area of the diamond will tend increase over time.  Also the constant weight on the rubber components may make small indents into the rubber, and such tiny rubber parts may get more or less elastic over long time periods, so some changes will also be had due to temperature and humidity over time. So yes they may change or break-in over time.

Typically when used within the rated VTF a quality diamond stylus lasts from 500 to 2000 hours if not dropped, and kept reasonably clean.  Its pretty much the same with older permalloy tape heads too, depoends on tape tension.  Expect a diamond to last closer to 500 hours when its in a moving coil tracking at a higher VTF, like 2.0 - 2.5 grams; and more like 1500 - 2000 hours when tracking at 0.8 to 1.0 grams.  So my own preference for about 1.25 g. probably would give a stylus life of about 1,200 hours, or on average about 3,500 album sides, before stylus wear would become audible, or inner groove distortion increases, and record wear becomes a questionable problem.  YMMV.


-Steven
 

While you guys are at it... How long does a stylus last on average?

[slbender]

I am not so sure about that... the wire may be thinner than hair thin, but MC coils can be only be a few turns or maybe a few dozen, that I'd say would be maybe one foot of wire or less in a coil.  As for MM coils, well I'd be surprised if there was more than ten to twenty feet of wire in a single coil, the cores are just so itty, bitty, tiny, a single turn of wire could be a fraction of an inch.

-Steven

...there are typically hundreds of feet of wire glued to those coils inside...far more than any run of speaker, interconnect or power cable for 'break-in' purposes.

[TheChairGuy]

I looked quick this morning, but couldn't find the passage that I was looking for - but I had read that the 4.5mv Grado's have about 125 feet of wire wrapped around the coils to produce this output....but the 0.5mv output cartridges in their line have but 6 feet.

Correspondingly, this reduces internal (DC) resistance substantially - a major reason why many moving coils (typically lower in DC resistance at most output voltages) are more often described as 'open' sounding relative to their MM/MI counterparts.

Grado, and Pickering and Stanton before them, have reduced the coil turns/windings in an effort to reduce DC resistance and increase 'openness'. The flip side, of course, is that it now requires more generous external step-up gains......causing it's own set of restrictions in sound quality (like additional noise introduced into the chain).

[In The Groove]

I put another 5 hours on the Grado Black, still tilted up a bit in the treble but really getting more focus.  I have about 10 hours on it total now.

Tremendous value for a paltry $40.

[slbender]

First off, wire in coils must have total winding to winding insulation, a coil of uninsulated wire would effectively short itself out and measure zero resistence, and so it would be a short, not a coil.

Yes, and you said coils, there are four coils inside some cartridges, so that 125' would work out to be 31' per coil...

-Steven

The coil windings are of uninsulated wire...

I looked quick this morning, but couldn't find the passage that I was looking for - but I had read that the 4.5mv Grado's have about 125 feet of wire wrapped around the coils to produce this output....but the 0.5mv output cartridges in their line have but 6 feet.

[In The Groove]

I heard from a reliable source that Reference Grados take around 50 hours to break in so maybe that's a good rule of thumb.

I also believe in talking to the same friend that may VTA is too high so I will work on that tonight.

[TheChairGuy]

It took my Green about 30 hours to settle in j-u-u-u-u-st right 

They def. need more than 5 hours.  Getting VTA helps a bunch, too.

My little journey with the 100% exact (except for purported hand selection and better specs) Green model might well help you about now:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=32272.0

[lcrim]

I have never heard any changes in any cartridge I have owned that I can ascribe to breakin.  As the setup got better dialed in, I have heard things improve but that was the result of getting things closer to the optimum settings.
My speakers, the Compact Hemps, did change and develop as they played more and more, maybe 400-500 hours worth.  I have heard Black Gate capacitors in a power supply go through enormous changes as they broke in.
As I became more familiar with the way a cartridge sounds, I have tended to become more critical and less accepting of its relative shortcomings but I don't think that is a result of breakin.  If the suspension needs to develop then I would be concerned that as time goes on it will become too loose or degraded and I've never noticed that happening either.  Sorry, I don't agree with the trend of this thread, I think cartridges need perhaps a few minutes and after that I think our ears and brains take over.

[Psychicanimal]

I have never heard any changes in any cartridge I have owned that I can ascribe to breakin.   Sorry, I don't agree with the trend of this thread, I think cartridges need perhaps a few minutes and after that I think our ears and brains take over.

Get an Ortofon X-5 and find out for yourself...what a nasty one!