Hey Guys: Help me choose an integrated!!!

pacifico · « **on:** 12 Feb 2007, 01:34 am »

Wife has given the go ahead to choose one of the following:

Cayin A 70T 55 watts EL34 tubes or KT88 or 6550

Rogue Cronus also 50 watts EL34 tubes

Audionote kit 4 12 watts 6550 tubes (about $500-800 more w/ options and shipping).

I like the idea of being able to roll tubes with the cayin but the rogue has already such an established rep for being great. The Audionote intrigues me. I don't know why but I hear it calling me too. Anyone here with Audionote kit experience?

If yoou all can think of something out of left field that I should check out, let me know.

Also, I will be listening too the rogue and cayin very very soon. Thanks.

WEEZ · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 02:01 am »

Your last sentence is the key

eric the red · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 02:25 am »

Maybe a used Prima Luna 1 or 2? Unless you live near Kevin Deal and could audition one in person, I don't think you'd lose much dough on a used one if you didn't like it. I just traded up from an Antique Sound Lab EL34 1003DT to a KT88 ASL 1001DT. Both amps are very nice and reasonably (in our universe) priced.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 04:51 am »

I have to agree w/ Sam Tellig of Stereophile this Class-A rated integrated is one of the best amps available of any kind or price, 70/135W 8/4-Ohms, about $2800 msrp, sorry I don't know your price range. Possibly unique feature among integrateds is bridged mono switch, 280W @ 8-Ohms. I've had two, stone reliable. Tube inputs, one pair MOSFET outputs (ala darTZeel & German Audionet).

I have experience w/ recent Bruce Moore tube monos, $5k/pr 50W & $9k/pr 100W. I'd probably take the Pathos over the BM's. Really can't fault the Pathos above 70 Hz. A British rag picks this "Classic" model over the $5k integrated.

http://www.pathosacoustics.com/classiceng.htm

One glitch is it could use more gain but only on the Comcast HD channels (low output for some strange reason). Will hear it in mono soon, powering VMPS RM-V60 Music Wing. No complaints about the stock tubes. Can't really decide what would be the goal behind tube rolling.

Good luck. Amps seem to be the hardest nut to crack in audio, after room treatments.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 05:19 am »

You didn't mention your speakers. That is critical to the power question. Unless they are around 93dB/W/m and an easy load, the 12W AN really isn't going to cut it.

That said, all the AN gear is killer. The kits look easy to build.

The Cayin amps all sound great and are a fabulous value. Very similar to the PL gear (same factory) in terms of build. I've owned PL monoblocks and a Cayin A88.

HiFiSoundGuy · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 06:34 am »

Onkyo A-9555 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1162244234&read&3&4&

JLM · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 11:48 am »

Also look at bass damping. Most tube amps get flabby below 50 Hz.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 12:18 pm »

We had the Cayin A70T at the December NY Audio Rave, so you might want to check in with some Rave members to get their impressions. The A88T received a lot of great reviews, and IMHO, the A70T sounds better (smoother, more refined).

(disclaimer: I'm a Cayin dealer)...

pacifico · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 12:28 pm »

Hello,

Sorry not to mention this: My speakers are 91db efficient.

Upscale audio has one of those pathos amps in its used section.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 12:48 pm »

I'm running my A70T in ultralinear mode (55wpc) with 86db speakers, and except for really complex music at high volumes, it drives the speakers very well. It actually still does a decent job in triode mode (27wpc) with these speakers, but you can hear the limitations.

At our december Rave, we used the A70T with 88db Aurum Cantus speakers as well as 91db Triangle Celius speakers, and the A70T was able to really produce some great dynamics...

Thebiker · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 01:17 pm »

I haven't heard the Pathos, but I have heard positive things about them. You haven't mentioned a price range, but I recall seeing the Pathos used for @$1600.

If that's the range you want to stay in, you should consider the Prima Luna series that Upscale markets. They have been well reviewed and are self-biasing, makes life easy for someone new to tubes.

Personally, I have a Manley Stingray and a Carey SLI-80. Two totally different approaches to the end result of making music that makes me smile. I run both in the triode mode, which suits my listening habits, primarily jazz, blues & classical with some classic rock thrown in. These choices take you into the
$3000 range.

Consider your listening habits as well as your wallet. Try for an in home demo if possible. Happy hunting

, it can be fun if properly approached.

pacifico · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 01:24 pm »

I have considered the stingray for a purchase later this year. From what I've heard they are very solid-state sounding for tubes. that wouldn't be bad though for me.

Thebiker · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 01:36 pm »

My Stingray pushes a pair of JM Lab Cobalt 816s (91dB) and that's where I usually play rock, at volume. Solid bass, nice mids and good highs. Evanna did a great job with EL84's. Not mushy at all. I believe the newer units are now available with a remote, at least volume.

Rock is the only time that I switch from triode to ultralinear. That kicks it up to 50wpc and with a 91dB set of speakers, it doesn't lack for power.

Obviously, I'm happy with mine. I run multiple integrateds because like many in this hobby (addiction) I run multiple systems

.

pacifico · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 02:28 pm »

I undersatnd about this hobby/addiction

. Will likely get the audionote kit somewhere down the road.

Toka · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 03:38 pm »

Van Alstine just rolled out an integrated amp (Omegastar series)...best sounding SS gear I've ever heard:

http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/control_amplifier/index.htm

saisunil · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 04:10 pm »

Here is a PrimaLuna Killer - Tube Audio Design. I have owned one - sold to replace it with Solid State (Baby/Wife reasons). It has more features than most ... Sounds excellent. More Solid State or neutral sound.

http://tubeaudiodesign.com/

Call Paul - he is a great guy. If you choose to get other tubes to roll - he will give you a good price together.
This is a one man shop - so he doesn't get the media exposure - cause he does not spend money advertising.

He has 30 day money back policy too - if you don't like it. He provides excellent after sales support too.
Don't go by the color of his web-site - his tube amps are amazing.

Good Luck

James Romeyn · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 05:20 pm »

I had the Pathos Classic One Mk II & Mk III. The III was released summer '06; it seems to sound more robust & refined but a used Mk II is great. 3 yr warranty seems better than most tubes. It took awhile, but now I like the cosmetic design.

There's no preamp outputs for biamping, but no matter: A little attenuator box is easy & cheap to construct. Biamping w/ a big SS bipolar amp (less than $1k msrp) is about as good as it gets. A second Pathos = 280W monoblocks! (though a bipolar amp will still have better bass)

pacifico · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 05:32 pm »

What exactly is a bipolar amp?

woodsyi · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: pacifico on 12 Feb 2007, 05:32 pm

What exactly is a bipolar amp?

It's the output transistor type. I have a Von Gaylord Starlet that I really like with the SP/AV1s. You can come for listen or borrow the amp to try.

pacifico · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Feb 2007, 06:18 pm »

Thanks for the clarification and the very generous offer, Woodsyi.