First OB in established listening room

zapper7 · « **on:** 6 Feb 2007, 10:13 pm »

I am considering an open baffle speaker, either to purchase or build.

I have a room that is 33' x 15.5' x 8'h and like my music louder than usual

and with as much bass as possible

.

I read in the threads that bass is not exactly an OB forte, but am addicted to the open/musical sound.

I looked at Hawthorne's website, and an interesting design from Fostex that is OB on top with ported woofers, and am intrigued.

What suggestions would the members here have to get something started, $700 and under, either bought or built?

I have a Wadia running into Bel Canto S100 monos, so decent power, may change to tubes as the OBs come in to play. Listen to most everything.

Rafal · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 10:17 pm »

Also consider OB-5 by GR research. I heard them at TAAS meet and they sounded very nice. Or just go with Visaton B200 OB and a sub. That's what I have and I'm pretty satisfied to say the least

Cheers,

Rafal

Brad · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 10:26 pm »

I'm pretty happy with the Hawthorne combination, but you are over your $700 budget for coaxes, augies, a sub amp, and wood. Not a lot over, but still over.

They do LOUD well - and the Augies make some satisfying, realistic bass.

The B200s are quite nice and you could probably get in for $700 with them, a baffle, and a sub.
They can do loud pretty well, too

mcgsxr · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 10:59 pm »

Let's see if I can come close, since I think I already own a version of this, for around that investment.

2 b200 drivers - $350 shipped I think
2 mach5 12 inch woofers - $100 plus shipping to the US (http://www.mach5audio.com/product_info.php?products_id=41&osCsid=86290b555986cedce02e0ee8df710038)
1 240w plate amp - $128 plus shipping http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-805
4x8 of 3/4 inch mdf - $50?

Total - $628, plus some shipping for the amp and subs - figure right about $700.

What does that recipe end up looking like?

Well, I did this, but I will absolutely mount the sub isolated from the main baffle, in my next iteration - intelligent people here warned me to do it, but hey, I just gotta be me!

I think the bass solution runs somewhere around $250 shipped, so you could also go with the Silver Iris, but it would look a little odd with the big 15 main, and the "tiny" 12 sub!

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 11:31 pm »

Although a little more work, I have a pair of Altec 755Es that I purchases off Audiogon at the end of last Spring. Instead of going for large and all encompasing designs with the Darth Vader presence in the room, I went for the JE Labs model with a rectangular to squarish baffles. They cost me about $69 in plywood cuts to measure at a home improvement place (cannot get to cut those baffles or plywood well in an understaffed HDepot!.) They took me an afternoon and now, they are singing in my rather small listening room. The lows, I have them supplemented with a Infinity subwoofer. I cannot say that the bass is overwhelming, but it is much better than having the "flabby bass syndrome" and yet, these OBs are simply satisfying for what they took to be built.

Nevertheless, my better half still complains that the these "junky" planks take out most of the room. I run them with just 10 watts of op chip battery power. I thought about adding a pair of horn tweeters crossed on top...because they are supposed to begin to drop after 14 Khz, but after I began to used my MacMini along with a headroom Micro DAC as digital front end, I feel there is no lack of hi end.

The only drawback of my design is the availability of the 755s. Whenever they appear, they seem to be snapped rather faster than last year. You can get your own very pair for what I think is about $400-600, if lucky.

Check some pictures..

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallerysearch&cat=0&pos=11

MJK · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 12:51 am »

I have proposed this driver combination in the past but nobody has taken me up on it yet. I have not done any extensive design work, but consider this combination as a starting point.

Full range driver = Fostex FE-167E or 166E, each is 94 dB efficient ($63 each)

15" Woofer = Eminence Alpha series 15A, each is 97dB efficient and Qts = 1.26 ($58 each)

or

15" Woofer = Eminence Beta series 15, each is 98dB efficient and Qts = 0.59 ($72 each)

Crossover = Behringer CX2310 ($90)

XLR Cables = six required ($50)

Total Cost = 2 x $63 + 2 x $58 + $90 + $50 = $382 plus wood.

I can say that a 15" woofer with a full range driver is extremely efficient and produces great dynamics. You can see my Project 7 for an example of this type of system. Again, I have done no detailed design work but this still looks to be a good starting point at a reasonable cost. I have uploaded a sim on my site if you are interested.

www.quarter-wave.com/OB_2_Drivers_1_30_07.pdf

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 01:15 am »

Martin, for the price that's a pretty compelling line up you've got there.

Myself, I've got:
(2) Hawthorne Audio Coaxials
(2) Hawthorne Audio Augies
P.E. Plate amp
Total, about $750-$800 if I remember correctly.

Temporary loan:
Hawthorne Audio Duets with P.E. Plate amp
Base price $950 (I think), but these are "prettied up" for a total $1350 (MSRP)
The one's I have were purchaced used.

I love LOVE both rigs.
My DIY Hawthorne Audio drivers will go to the grave with me.
(In my living will, I'm asking they be used to play the music at the church during my funeral)

I can't give a stonger recommendation on any product I've purchaced IN MY LIFE than these drivers.
If you could see me, you'd notice my voice crack, and see the tear from my eye.

Versatility - Clarity - Imaging - The whole package.

Bob

zapper7 · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 01:22 am »

Thanks for all the responses, I will look back at Hawthorne and Fostex, as well as MJK's recommendation, everything seems right where I want it, thanks again.
Z

MJK · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 01:41 am »

Bob,

Since the 15" woofers are very similar in our two designs, the big difference between the designs is the crossover location. Crossing over low and allowing a full range driver to do what it does best is an interesting option in my opinion. The other thing I have done that is not shown on my site yet is to add a Fostex super tweeter with a small cap to cross it into the system high in the frequency range. Adds a little more air, but the full range driver is still handling the bulk of the audio spectrum as it should.

Martin

JohninCR · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 11:53 am »

Zapper,

No one really addressed bass for you. I'd suggest dual 15's per side, so you don't need a big baffle. Here's a real budget buster rig to find out what OB is all about.

4 Warrior 15's currently $15 ea. http://www.musicsupplycenter.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=100%2D186

2 Pioneer B20's at $24.50 ea. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-045

Throw in a piece of plywood and a couple of coils for the woofers along with a little sweat equity, and you're in business for under $200.

Like MJK mentioned you'll probably want a tweeter on top, but that's true of almost any full ranger.

Simpler and less tweaking required, but a little more money are the Hawthorne coax + a 15" woofer, or B200's + 2 15's. Since you like bass then bass augmenter drivers are a foregone conclusion. Using pro-type 15's like Martin mentioned or the bargain solution I posted above gives you flexibility in that you can put just about any fullranger on top and they can be used high enough that you don't have to worry about the Q of the fullranger. That opens up your choices to include the Fostex lineup.

zapper7 · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 05:16 pm »

JohninCR,

How do I know what size the baffles need to be?

I am comparing them to a pair of Silverline Sonatas (box speaker, 95db), how would that comparison be interms of sound quality, efficiency?

Thanks

Folsom · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 05:36 pm »

The Pioneer B20's are crap unless coated with Damar. Then cut the whizzer off and throw in a tweeter. Then they become really freaking dang good speakers for the price. I mean before that they are just around high end side of Best Buy, after they would only be found in a Hi-Fi shop.

nodiak · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 07:17 pm »

zapper7,
when you said "as much bass as possible" are you talking as deep as possible, ex. for sub 20 hz synth, organ, etc. ? Or just strong 30ish hz and up? IMO that would be a deciding factor on what type system to try. My experience (for budgets like ours) is for below 30's you need a powered box sub (or IB if possible, supposed to be the ultimate, can't do it in my apartment...someday). Then you need to work on blending sub into room (it's possible with less compromise than some think). Since you like bass like me I think you won't be satisfied until you get this issue right. This point is what makes me want to reply to you, because everything is taste and room dependent. I gotta have strong bass for synth music, so a sub for my situation. Maybe this makes sense to you. Or maybe someone knows of a sub 20hz ob driver...or not...yet?
I've used ob's with 15" and various wideranges on top and they work great. In my experience for 30ish hz (low note on 5 string bass is full) and up the Augie works, and so I guess would the 15's Martin recommends which are much cheaper and higher spl. His virtual system looks nice and is affordable. Could try different wideranges on top until you find what satisfies your taste. Could add a sub later if you feel the need, or double up on 15's for more bass power.
Or start out with a <20 hz sub or two, which is a big issue on it's own. Then you only need ob's to ~ 70hz, which allows different options.
Mostly wanted to make the above or below 30hz comment.
Don

zapper7 · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 08:54 pm »

I am interested in Martin amd John in CR ideas and prices

, just don't want to take a step backwards from the Silverlines

, but I guess thats the risk as usual.

Bass from 30hz up is good, I have a sub in the room already that goes down to 20hz if needed.

Keep all suggestions coming, many choices, limited funds, always sucks

nodiak · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 09:20 pm »

Are these the Silverlines you have? http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/siverline_sonataii.htm Crap, they won't let me link it. Have a link to your model? Are you trying to get similar "speed" and "tone" and efficiency as them? People could throw in their experiences to answer that question.
Since you already have a sub, and nice gear, $700 should be plenty no problem.
My vote goes for Martins idea, save some money, learn something, and tell us about it! I'd be very interested in a comparison to the Sonata's.
Don

zapper7 · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 10:28 pm »

Alan Yun's Silverline in the Bay area.
Yes, similar efficiency, tone, but with the OB magic.
After coming back from CES, my brother and I sat down and listened to my stuff again.

The first impression after all that great equipment we heard was ..... Boxy-like sound

I then started in the OB quest again, this time wanting to actually do something

instead of just read and think.

markC · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Feb 2007, 10:42 pm »

Zapper7,
Do you have an adjoining closet, cold room,crawl space or the like to your listening room? If you do, infinite baffle bass will will definitely provide the high a bass junkie craves.

zapper7 · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Feb 2007, 12:31 am »

MarkC

I do have a crawl space aa please explain further, which specific drivers?, use a vent grate in the floor?

Do any of you guys think the commonsence audio website has any merit/logic in their ideas, they sell drivers as well, those Audio Nirvanas look interesting.??

nodiak · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Feb 2007, 02:15 am »

http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/FAQ.html
They say you'll never be the same again, have fun!

Doublej · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Feb 2007, 02:57 am »

nodiak,

Are you looking for this URL?

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/silverline_sonatinaiii.htm