[Syrah]

OK.  At the risk of being the first to comment.  Here goes.

First off - three cheers for Denny!  He's on his way to audiophile Sainthood.

Sorry JJ and I had to leave early.  We only heard the following amps:

23---------Song Audio 300B mono blocs
42............Red Wine Audio Sig 70 mono blocs
63---------McAlister MB-130 mono blocs
7.............Dodd 120 (modified) mono blocs
94---------ATI 1202 (stereo)
74............Moscode 401HR (stereo)

I've taken both of our comments and put them together in the below review.  I'm the owner of the Dodds, just to get my bias out of the way.  JJ didn't own any of the amps auditioned.  Our comments below are based on our blind assessments.

Both of us felt the three in the top tier (of the above only) were,

McAlister;
Dodd; and,
Moscode.

I was leaning toward the Moscode as my #1, with the McAlisters as my #2.  JJ liked the McAlisters best, with the Dodds as his #2.

McAlister

Given his prices, Peter ought to consider hiring an assistant amp builder.  At $2000 - no brainer!  They did everything well, with soundstaging as a stand out strength.  Maybe it was just going on in my head, but when the music stopped there seemed to be a particularly long period of silence and reflection in the room, like we just heard music.

Dodd

We both (JJ and I) agreed that in terms of detail retrieval, the Dodds were the clear winners.  We both agreed that in terms of bass control, the Dodds were also the clear winners.

I thought that (in some passages) the Dodds displayed excessive sibilance. 

JJ thought this would be the best amp for critical listening.  He also felt it was the most neutral, giving up to the McAlisters only in terms of ease of listening.  These left JJ with the impression that they were the most "powerful" amps in the group, seeming to have plenty left over in the tank, even on the hardest passages.

I mistook these amps (my own) for solid state.  Shows you how much you oughta trust my opinion.

Moscode

I felt the Moscode had a superb soundstage and a lush sound that drew you into the music.  I thought it presented a soundstage a bit more forward than the others.  The combination gave me the outer-body experience.  If it were paired with a lush preamp, I could see it leaning too far toward the syrupy direction.  In Denny's set up I thought it was pure gold.

JJ thought it was a good generalist, placing third behind the McAlisters and the Dodds.

Generally

We both agreed with some of the other comments made on AC.  With one exception, the differences between the amps (while noticeable) were subtle and all of the amps sounded great.  The one exception were the Song Audio amps.  Perhaps being low power 300Bs, they just weren't up to the job.  Break out the horns and it could be a different matter.

The experience might have had the effect of making me a "source and speakers" guy.  I've found greater differences in absolute quality when I've compared various sources in my system.  Recently going from a ModWright Sony 999 to a ModWright Sony 9100, left me blown away.  When I've compared my Bolder modded SB to my ModWright players, the difference in character was stark.

We look forward to the reviews of other attendees, particularly of the amps that we missed.

Dodd Owner Comments - In my home system, the Dodds did display some harshness after I got the mods as a result of an increase in transparency.  I wasn't entirely sure (at first) if the transparency and detail were worth the price of harshness - and the price of the mods.  Following discussions with Gary Dodd, I introduced one of Gary's power inductors into my power line, and the harshness went away.  Apparently the result of my crappy power.  Gary uses these inductors in his iso trannie.  So it could be that the Dodds just revealed too much at this session.  Given the detail retrieval and bass control, I and several other attendees pegged these as solid state amps.  Gary's lastest version has even more power, could be scary.

Also, I use these amps with a Supratek Syrah - a preamp known for its smoothness.  When I paired it up with my other preamp (a Copland) the modded Dodds were a bit too much reality into my Martin Logan SL3s.  They're great with the Supratek though.  Synergy, synergy, synergy...

Cheers and many thanks again to Denny,
Syrah

[DonnieW]

Nice synopsis and review man! 

[Daygloworange]

Syrah,

Thanks for bringing the Dodd Audio 120's. A lot of people wanted to hear the differences that would exist between the Dodd's and the McAlister's.

Thanks for your honest review and synopsis.

I will say this about the speakers. The GR Research OB 5's are very neutral, but have a very high resolution. They do not sugar coat anything. This can be both wonderful and it can work against you. In the right setup, you are just drawn into the music....and in the wrong one, you can be distracted. They were chosen for this quality, and capabilty for the Comparo.

I encourage everyone in attendance to add their impressions of the event as well.

Cheers

[Rafal]

Hi Folks,

My brother and I only stayed for the first 3 amps (we had a long drive back to London). It was pretty cool to witness the comparison. Out of the 3 amp we heard,
23---------Song Audio 300B mono blocs
42............Red Wine Audio Sig 70 mono blocs
63---------McAlister MB-130 mono blocs
I was very pleasently surprised by the Red Wine Audio Sig 70 mono blocs. They seemed to be very rythmic.  They were all very good though and for me, trying to pick out which is better, is like splitting hairs. I wish I could have atayed longer. I really wanted to hear the Dynaco ST70 and see how it compares.
The OB5's were amazing. Very clear and uncolored (inspite of the fact that they were passive). They also imaged like crazy and the bass was also very deep. It almost made me look for the sub:wink:. I kind of want them now. For the price of admission, I haven't heard anything that was close in terms of value (except for, perhaps, my Visation B200OB's  )

If I may make a suggestion regarding an alternative format, fully realizing that it won't be a comparison, I think it would be cool to have a few (maybe 3) reps of the amp(or any equipment for that matter) give a short presentation and demo of their stuff. This would highlight what that equipment can really do which I think would be really cool.

[RHB]

HI All;

I stayed from beginning to end. I must compliment Dannny in particular for his efforts and all the manufacturers and owners who donated equipment for evaluation. It was long and near the end I think every one was getting a bit punchy. 

My impressions from the Sunday group of amps were all very favourable except for the Song Amp. I think that honestly this format was not at all favourable or fair to the qualities of that unit. I stuck around following the main comparison to listen to the Song unit with a direct CD input and a different pair of more efficient speakers and the result was impressive to say the least.

Of the group I listened to It's difficult to pick out a BEST over all Amp. I enjoyed the Red wines, very smooth and good detail. The McAlisters had clearly the widest and deepest sound stage  spatial detail, very natural instruments and voice  and clean, well detailed bottom end. The Dodds were quite nice, natural sounding instruments although a tad edgy with cymbals an "sss" sounds but a quite decent bottom end. I also heard the noise floor of the Dodds (left channal at least) on the classical passage which I found a little distracting. 

I enjoyed hearing the Dynaco ST 70. I beleive that it had a Curaco or similar triode front end on it and it had been substantially improved over the stock unit first offered some 45 years ago It was amazingly good for an amplifier that originally sold for about a hundred bucks in it's day. The two Electrohome Monoblocks were very sweet to listen to as well.

The Oddessy Monoblocks were very impressive as an indicator that solid state can be done right and you can listen to and enjoy it. All in all it was a heck of a lot to try to absorb and rationalize in a fairly short time frame..... but lots of fun. Lets do it again in the summer perhaps  aa         

[Daygloworange]

RHB,

A couple of things you might want to know. My ATI 1202 was in the Comparo. It is dead quiet in my system. At the Comparo, it had a buzz in the left channel as well. I had even lifted the ground with a cheater plug, but it still buzzed.

The Dynaco had a VT driver board mod done to it.

Cheers

[Rocket_Ronny]

Thanks guys for the reviews. I am especially interested in reading comments from people who listened both days, so thanks for doing so.

I have always wanted to hear the Odysseys and wonder how they fair against the McAlsiters. I understand the Odysey's to sound somewhat like the Moon W5. Is that a fair comparison of how they sound to you?


Syrah: Can your further comment on the differences between your players and the Squeezebox?

Thanks again.

Rocket_Ronny

[bluemike]

I want to start of by saying I had a blast at Sunday's meet

There were many very good amps that were auditioned
Denny's OB5 were up to the task 

If I had to pick my top 3  in no particular order they would be
Red Wine Signature 70's  Moscode 401 and the Mccalister's Monoblocks
Honourable mention was Denny's ATI

IMO Synergy was a determining factor - Source selection played a big part in what I heard

I would be very interested to hear these same amps in the same setup with a change of source equipment .   

A special thanks goes out to Denny for making this comparo happen

Cheers Buddy   
 

[Daygloworange]

I had auditioned my amp before I bought it, against an NAD, a Yamaha, and a Bryston at the store where I bought it. It sounded real good I thought, and wasn't a lot of money. I heard and read a lot of stories about how well it was built, quiet, and reliable. It is all of those things. It has been on 24/7 since I bought it a year and a half ago.

I fully expected that while the amp sounded good to my ears, that it would fall considerably short of audiophile quality amps. It absolutely did not. If fact, I was quite pleased at how well it did. Very pleased to be honest. I will be keeping it, for sure. It might one day go in my studio set up, and then be replaced in my 2 channel set up.

The Red Wine Audio Sig 70's sounded amazing! Everything one could want. I loved these amps. They were plenty loud and had room to spare while being driven by the modded SB 3. It is a very tube like, musical amp. I'd like to give this one a critical listen in my system. I love the whole concept that Vinnie has done with this amp.

The Odysseys sounded great. It's got it all too. A very smooth, musical solid, state amp.

The Moscode is a real nice amp. Real nice. These 3 amps, while they don't sound the same exactly, have what I feel is a similar overall characteristic. Smooth, good bottom, good high end extension, and are all very, very musical. Keep in mind these were by far, not ideal critical listening sessions for absolutely critical reviews.
The Moscode is gorgeous. The added flexibility of being able to tube roll I feel is an important feature in why someone would strongly want to purchase this one over some other equally good amp. After Saturday's listening session, Gage Rommel hung around and wanted to hear my ATI again, then wanted to hear the Moscode, and decided to change to a different set of tubes for Sunday's event. The tube swap had the mid's a little less forward and a little more laid back in our setup, and it was a good choice to go with for Sunday. I really like this feature.

(By the way, Gage left me some cool Moscode goodies, so you guys who own 'em, if you want 'em, I'd be glad to pass them along to you.)


Rocket_Ronny, I've never heard a Moon W5, so I can't compare.

The McCormack, sounded good.

The 2 sleepers in this Comparo were the ratty looking Dynaco ST 70, and the Electrohome PA's. They both sounded real good. I really, really liked the Electrohome's. ( They had rusty screws for bare wire binding posts. So much for 24 carat gold plated blah, blah, blah.....  )

At the end of the day, based on the outcome of this Comparo, given the less than ideal conditions, it came down to splitting hairs. Every amp in attendance was a serious contender. This was echoed by a lot of people.

We'll do something along these lines again in the future, and try to do it even better. But I consider it a succesful trial, and a whole lot of fun. It was a blast.

Cheers

[DavidS]

Have enjoyed reading this thread a lot - thanks to all the posters for taking me there without the cost of a flight to TO.  I have most enjoyed reading about the OB5's which I am getting the impression combine the clean mid and upper detail of electrostatics or Open Baffles (I think this because I am sadly an OB virgin) with rock solid low end and bass control.  Very interesting speaker - Rocket Ron have read your building posts - also most enjoyable and beautiful speakers.

I have been to a couple of west coast listening sessions and what always amazes me is how close most good quality amps are.  Unlike speakers a quality amp is compareable to other quality amps (power being equal that is - eg your experience with the highly regarded Song) - you might get 5-10% more of what you are looking for from any amp.  I have had a PS Audio amp for 3 years and one of the reasons I just can't seem to make a decision regarding a new amp is most quality amps sound quite similar, in my opinion.  I would jump on new speakers in a heartbeat (lusting after the new quads currently and I have great speakers in Ellis 1801s) but your Comparo seems to be support my conviction that my system is not going to sound a lot different with a new amp short of getting synergy lucky or spending serious dollars.

Look forward to reading more on the OB5's and who knows maybe I can make it to the big city for the 08 Comparo

David 

[Daygloworange]

DavidS,

I'm sure people that attended will share their comments on them.
You can read quite a bit about the OB 5's over here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31630.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=34105.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=32448.0

IMO, speakers are still, your biggest bang for your buck. The most radical change you could make. Period.

I've already been talking to some industry guys on the next time. The TAAS Amp Comparo 2008 will happen for sure, and be much better for sure as well.

Cheers

[bolly]

a huge thanks to Denny for coordinating an event of this proportion, no easy task I'm sure. Also, thanks to everyone that brought their amps for the comparo, without them this couldn't have happened. This was my first experience at this type of meet and I really enjoyed it. I found that the Moscode 401HR sounded most detailed, the McCormack was a tad rolled-off for the highs, Mark&Tonys amp to be alittle bright, and while the SongAudio 300B didn't have the power the other amps had, I found it a very lush sounding machine. All other amps sounded very nice, but it was difficult for me to put my thoughts into words(I've only been into audio for the last 4yrs). The only differences I could perceive was on bass reproduction(I wish'd I'd taken more precise notes), some amps seemed to have a tighter bass than others. A great event, great people, and great amps! Thanks everyone!

edit: the Fostex played at the end were amazingly holographic.

BTW Denny, minor oxidation of the speaker binding screws, not rust, lol. 

[Syrah]

Rocket,

As for the differences between my Modwright 999 and the Boulder modded SB, I'd describe it as similar to the differences between a Bryston and a McAlister.  The SB has a deeper low end, the Modwright 999 has a nicer midrange - fatter, warmer.  The SB is probably more neutral, but in my system (stats, Dodds and the Syrah) the 999 sounded better.  With my headphones, the gap closed, making them equal but different.

The story's different between the 9100 and the Boulder modded SB.  The 9100 pretty much cleans the slate.  It is really one fantastic machine!  I've got it with the tube regulated power supply.  To be fair, they're not the same price, not at all.

Regarding the Dodds, in my system they don't display noise or sibilance issues.  Power treatment kept all the inner detail, the dynamics and the bass, but took away the sibilance.  The extra detail and sibliance were the result of the mods.  As for the noise, two of the amps showed noise issues in the left channel only.  It could be that those amps are retrieving enough detail to disclose an upstream problem, then again, it could be both amps just have left channel problems.

Cheers,
Syrah

[Daygloworange]

BTW Denny, minor oxidation of the speaker binding screws, not rust, lol.

bolly,

Ok,ok....It was dark y'know.....

The demo by Song Kim is worth talking about. On Saturday, he had his SET integrated in the Comparo. It is only like 3 or 4 watts. The SB 3 overloaded the inputs, bad. Real bad. So we didn't run it. On Sunday he came back and brought his mono blocs which were 300B based. They were only capable of 91 db's during the white noise calibration, but we ran them anyways. They sounded nice, quite a bit of high end roll off, but nice. They did sound lush.

After the Comparo, he hooked up the little SET to some single driver Loth X speakers and to my sub. Holy smoke!!@!  

Absolutely holographic! I have never, ever heard anything like that before. Frightening! I've used the term holographic before to describe imaging on conventional speakers. I'm going to have to start using a different word, like realism, or transparency. Holographic needs to be reserved for special occasions such as Song's demo. Wow!

Syrah,

I do have an issue from time to time on my modded SB's left output. At the beginning of a quiet track you can hear some low level noise, kind of like a crackling, (or RFI) that goes away. I've spoken to Wayne, and he's going to look at it when I send my unit back for upgrades. I did mention that at the meet. But the buzz on the left channel on my amp was an electrical problem. There were a couple of ghosts in the machine moments during the weekend that left us headscratching. 

Cheers

[gitarretyp]

I had some problems with RFI in my modded SB that sounds similar to yours. It was due to the wireless card and the orientation of the coupling caps. As an experiment, you could try using it wired --unless you already use it that way; in which case, ignore everything i said.

[Daygloworange]

I'm going to try running it wired, then it's off to Wayne for upgrades, I'll post and let you know if that worked.

Cheers

[phowell1]

Dayglow,  I second your opinion of Songs amps. The demo I had at his place was most impressive- in a league of it's own. I do wish I could have heard his 300bs.


atb

[Vinnie R.]

The Red Wine Audio Sig 70's sounded amazing! Everything one could want. I loved these amps. They were plenty loud and had room to spare while being driven by the modded SB 3. It is a very tube like, musical amp. I'd like to give this one a critical listen in my system. I love the whole concept that Vinnie has done with this amp.

Hi Denny (Daygloworange),

I would like to thank you for all your time and effort in hosting the Amp Comparo '07!  I understand how much work this is and from reading these latest posts, it sounds like you did a kick-ass job! 

Thanks to Paul Candy of 6moons for bringing his review pair of Sig 70s to this event.

I also want to say thank you to all who attended and made the effort to listen to the Sig 70s and post your impressions.

I wish I could have been there, but I couldn't travel that far on "baby watch." 

I will be at the FSI Expo in Montreal... Room 926.  Hope to see MANY of you there!

Thanks again, Denny!

Vinnie