Re-ripping everything....

PhilNYC · « **on:** 25 Jan 2007, 10:01 pm »

A couple of months ago, I converted my entire ripped music library from Apple Lossless to WAV. Because I use a Mac to run Slimserver for my Transporter and Squeezebox, Apple Lossless was my only option for storing lossless files (iTunes doesn't support FLAC), and because TP/SB doesn't natively support Apple Lossless, I didn't have the ability to fast-forward or rewind within a song. What I didn't realize was how much Slimserver uses various tagging information...and that by going WAV, I was losing a lot of the tags needed to properly organize and navigate through my collection of music. Almost a quarter of my music suddenly only showed up under "Compilations", and some music was only accessible via the "Music Folder" menus (ie. a straight read of the music folder on my hard drive).

So...I bit the bullet, wiped everything out and started ripping all my music to Apple Lossless again. Amazing how much difference it has made in the usability of the TP/SB! I had about 20 days worth of music, and I've re-ripped about a quarter of that over the last couple of days. And I also finally decided to start loading album cover art into the music library as well...and it makes the Slimserver web interface that much more interesting (see picture below).

The lesson here...any SB owners thinking about ripping/storing WAV files should think twice about it...

Greg Erskine · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Jan 2007, 10:10 pm »

Hi Phil,

I use WAV files and the only missing feature is FF and REW as far as I know. The standard tags seems to work OK. Compilations appear to work as I expect. What am I missing? (I'm not using a Mac and I only rip CDs not individual songs.)

regards

PhilNYC · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Jan 2007, 10:15 pm »

Quote from: Greg Erskine on 25 Jan 2007, 10:10 pm

Hi Phil,

I use WAV files and the only missing feature is FF and REW as far as I know. The standard tags seems to work OK. Compilations appear to work as I expect. What am I missing? (I'm not using a Mac and I only rip CDs not individual songs.)

regards

If you use WAV, you should be able to FF and REW fine (just make sure that the File-Types are playing the WAV files natively on the SB/TP).

When I was ripping to WAV, I was finding all sorts of problems...double CDs having the first CD listed under the artist and the second one getting listed under Compilations, numerous CDs getting ripped and stored to "No Artist", etc. It sounds like you're not having this problem? I don't have these problems when I rip to Apple Lossless. And yes, I only rip full CDs.

Greg Erskine · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jan 2007, 10:09 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 25 Jan 2007, 10:15 pm

If you use WAV, you should be able to FF and REW fine (just make sure that the File-Types are playing the WAV files natively on the SB/TP).

When I was ripping to WAV, I was finding all sorts of problems...double CDs having the first CD listed under the artist and the second one getting listed under Compilations, numerous CDs getting ripped and stored to "No Artist", etc. It sounds like you're not having this problem? I don't have these problems when I rip to Apple Lossless. And yes, I only rip full CDs.

I've been downloading nightly builds and haven't always worried about setting the Filetype to WAV. I thought FF and REW had worked once and that must have been when I changed Filetype to WAV. Thanks.

I found setting your playlist location to null, then doing a full rescan fixed any gremlins. I have double albums, triple albums and a few compilations. I use cover art. The basic tags in the CUE sheet generated by EAC appear to work properly. I only have a reported 244 albums though.

regards

JEaton · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 07:39 pm »

You could have easily taken the library in existing its existing WAV format and converted it to flac, then tagged it using any of a number of tagging programs. Would have saved you from reripping, although it would have taken a fair amount of manual checking/correction of tag data.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 02:09 am »

Quote from: JEaton on 27 Jan 2007, 07:39 pm

You could have easily taken the library in existing its existing WAV format and converted it to flac, then tagged it using any of a number of tagging programs. Would have saved you from reripping, although it would have taken a fair amount of manual checking/correction of tag data.

But as I mentioned, I'm using iTunes and a Mac, neither of which supports FLAC. And once I converted to WAV, didn't I pretty much lose all the tagging data? I would have had to enter it all manually...

bpape · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 02:13 am »

Just copy the FLAC files off to a neutral media - reimport then convert and allow the FLAC converter to auto-search for the tagging info - moot point now.

Bryan

LightFire · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 02:23 am »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 28 Jan 2007, 02:09 am

Quote from: JEaton on 27 Jan 2007, 07:39 pm
You could have easily taken the library in existing its existing WAV format and converted it to flac, then tagged it using any of a number of tagging programs. Would have saved you from re ripping, although it would have taken a fair amount of manual checking/correction of tag data.

But as I mentioned, I'm using iTunes and a Mac, neither of which supports FLAC. And once I converted to WAV, didn't I pretty much lose all the tagging data? I would have had to enter it all manually...

It still easier to use iTunes to re-tag the wav files (the tags would be kept in iTunes database not files). And then convert them back to apple lossless. In doing so iTunes would transfer the tags to the apple lossless files and organize the library according to your entries. I find easier (and faster) to do that than to keep popping CDs in and out.

One more thing about full albums in compilations folder. When ripping with iTunes (any format). It accesses the CDDB for CD info to put o the tags. This information is no always accurate. Once iTunes "names" the CD. Right-click the little CD icon with the CD's name that appears in the "source" column, in the left side of the iTunes screen. Chose "Get info" from the menu options that appear and see if there is a check mark in a box that says "compilation". If that checkbox is marked your songs will go to the compilations folder even if all songs are selected to belong to only one artist.

LightFire · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 02:26 am »

Strange that slim devices server software don't support apple lossless! The Roku sound bridge's firefly does.

sts9fan · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 04:46 am »

all you have to do is organize your music in folders and always find your music by "browse music folder". Much easier the re-ripping

PhilNYC · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 05:08 am »

Quote from: bpape on 28 Jan 2007, 02:13 am

Just copy the FLAC files off to a neutral media - reimport then convert and allow the FLAC converter to auto-search for the tagging info - moot point now.

Bryan

What software would I do this with on my Mac? (for future reference, of course)

PhilNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 05:11 am »

Quote from: LightFire on 28 Jan 2007, 02:26 am

Strange that slim devices server software don't support apple lossless! The Roku sound bridge's firefly does.

SlimDevices server software does support Apple Lossless....it's the actual Squeezebox/Transporter that doesn't. When using Apple Lossless, you have to have Slimserver convert the Apple Lossless file to either FLAC or WAV before sending it to the SB/TP (this is done by checking the proper setup in the File-type section)....

PhilNYC · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 05:13 am »

Quote from: sts9fan on 28 Jan 2007, 04:46 am

all you have to do is organize your music in folders and always find your music by "browse music folder". Much easier the re-ripping

I found this to be an incredibly annoying way to try to find my music (especially when I had gotten used to the way it worked with the Apple Lossless files being tagged correctly)...annoying enough to decide to re-rip my CDs...

LightFire · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 05:56 am »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 28 Jan 2007, 05:11 am

Quote from: LightFire on 28 Jan 2007, 02:26 am
Strange that slim devices server software don't support apple lossless! The Roku sound bridge's firefly does.

SlimDevices server software does support Apple Lossless....it's the actual Squeezebox/Transporter that doesn't. When using Apple Lossless, you have to have Slimserver convert the Apple Lossless file to either FLAC or WAV before sending it to the SB/TP (this is done by checking the proper setup in the File-type section)....

It looks like Apple is trying to lock your music away from your SB. Similar things happen with Roku Soundbridge, but they worked it around with their firefly server. iTunes 6 would work straight with the device, but since version 7 it has to be "unlocked" by the firefly server (it basically reads iTunes play lists and data base). No need for conversion here. The fact that you are using a Mac should not make any difference. The problem is iTunes not colaborating and/or SB software not reading Apple Lossless.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 06:22 am »

Quote from: LightFire on 28 Jan 2007, 05:56 am

It looks like Apple is trying to lock your music away from your SB. Similar things happen with Roku Soundbridge, but they worked it around with their firefly server. iTunes 6 would work straight with the device, but since version 7 it has to be "unlocked" by the firefly server (it basically reads iTunes play lists and data base). No need for conversion here. The fact that you are using a Mac should not make any difference. The problem is iTunes not colaborating and/or SB software not reading Apple Lossless.

Not sure what you're getting at, as I have no problems playing my music that is stored in Apple Lossless. Slim Devices simply chose not to include native Apple Lossless decoding in the Squeezebox/Transporter (I'm sure it had something to do with not wanting to pay a licensing fee), so the Apple Lossless decoding has to occur in SlimServer before streaming a converted file (WAV, Flac, others) to the TP/SB (and it does this perfectly fine). The only feature I lose when using Apple Lossless is the ability to fast-forward or rewind within a song.

The issue I had which required me to re-rip all of my music was after I converted all of my Apple Lossless music into WAV files, and I lost all of the tags (WAV files do not support tags). I found that without tags, Slim Devices had a hard time figuring out how to organize my music because of the absence of tag data to tell it where to put things. I decided to re-rip my music back into Apple Lossless because of the hassle I was having trying to find and play my WAV files. As previously mentioned, my WAV files were ending up in the weirdest places...like disc 1 of a 2-disc set would show up under a specific artist, but disc 2 would show up under "Compilations" with no artist attached. When I rip everything to Apple Lossless, all the music appears where it is supposed to show up.

Lord Chaos · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 07:55 pm »

I find that no matter which program I use to copy CDs to my hard disk, I have to check the tags manually. Otherwise I end up with inappropriately assigned compilations, or minor variations in orchestra names causing problems in finding the music later.

I wish I'd known all of this when I started copying CDs. Now have all this music on my hard disk, and the tag data varies widely. Makes for problems finding things with the Squeezebox.

So, for those of you who are just starting to move your music to a computer, check the tags! It's more work but you'll be very happy in the future.

As an aside, it seems that different databases have different strengths. The one Itunes uses seems to be better for classical music than whatever Windows Media Player uses. WMP does better on unusual music. Both still have many mistakes of one kind or another.

Tirade · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 09:02 pm »

Its posts like these that make me smile because most people do not understand just how much of a chore it can be to not only rip your CD's but rip them accurately.

As an example, freedb.org is usually off on about 50% of its CD's. Everything I rip gets checked against an Amazon.com database to check for inconsistencies and typos/errors. Once everything is ripped, the entire collection is run through program that checks for missing tag info, missing cover art, nonsequential track listings, duplicate entires, etc etc.

Sure it takes time, but when you rip your collection, you want it done right the first time.

Lord Chaos · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 10:54 pm »

I also check my ripped CDs against Amazon... and have found errors in Amazon's database. Sometimes this can be a real mystery, comparing the CD track list to the Amazon track list, to the database... and what I actually hear from the CD.

There's nothing like doing a playlist for a party based on wrong track names. Where'd that song come from?

Porter · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 11:46 pm »

I don't get it.

Why would you use Apple Lossless? You shouldn't feel constrained by iTunes on the Mac... there is a lot of really great software on the Mac platform that is far superior to iTunes for media ripping and organization.

You can use FLAC easily on the Mac... use Cog as a media player and use Max as a ripper/encoder to FLAC.

Max is similar to EAC on the PC... secure rips and external compressor calls, with integrated tagging. It also supports LAME Mp3 encoding if you need to encode for a portable device.

There are a few transcoding apps that may help you also... iTunes-To-FLAC is a key one, and MacFLAC will help in transcoding FLAC to whatever output codec you want to use if you need a lossy copy down the road for portable media.

alan m. kafton · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 Jan 2007, 12:02 am »

Don't discount LAME 320 as an encoder. I recently (again) heard a comparison CD-R with the following error-corrected selections.

1. Bit perfect original CD copy
2. Bit perfect FLAC lossless copy
3. LAME mp3 maximum @ 320kps
4. LAME mp3 normal @ 320kps

To my ears, and a friend's, we both felt that the LAME "normal" @ 320k sounded the most natural, clear, and coherent, even over the FLAC track. On paper, the FLAC should be better (it certainly was vs. the original error-corrected CD copy), but go figure....the "lossy" 320 was clearly more musical.