[Porter]

I'm shopping for a pair of budget interconnects and have a few questions on technical merits that I thought you fine folks might be able to answer.

I'm trying to compare the DIYcable Canare L-2T2S with the Blue Jeans Cable LC-1, both unbalanced, to figure out which one is a better buy.  To start, let me preface by mentioning that I'll be transitioning from a set of Straightwire Crescendo interconnects.    I'll list the basic differences below, you guys tell me what you think.

DIYcable L-2T2S	BJ Cable LC-1
Topology:
Twisted pair	Coaxial
Capacitance:
22 pF/ft	12.2 pF/ft
Resistance:
<19.8 ohms/1000ft	34 ohms/1000ft
Nominal Impedance:
88 ohms	75 ohms
Shielding:
Single Braid	Double Braid
Terminations:
Cardas RCA	Canare RCAP

The Blue Jeans LC-1 cable is based (more or less) on the Canare LV-77S.  So we're looking at a fairly similar build standard, just one twisted pair and the other coaxial.  Take price out of the equation for now.

What is more important to audio quality?  Capacitance?  Resistance?  What is the better buy?

Does DIYcable see a benefit in offering a coaxial design for unbalanced-only use?


Thanks for any insight you guys can give... It's appreciated.

Regards,

Jason Porter
Roanoke, VA

[Kevin Haskins]

Blue Jeans does an excellent job on the value side.   If you look at my assembled price it is higher than Blue Jeans and it will stay that way.

There is something wrong with the listed parameters though.   Canare designed the LV-77S for applications that need a characteristic 75 Ohm impedance (video, digital transmission etc..) so Canare would recommend it as idea for Component Video or a digital cable.    The listed capacitance at Canare's site is 21pF/ft.

For analog audio cable you don't need the 75 Ohm characteristic impedance.   I'd choose a twisted pair with a shield over a coax design simply because the shield only has to serve one purpose (RFI suppression).  Also.. the tight twisting and coupling of the two conductors adds some noise rejection.    Whether any of that really makes a difference is going to vary application to application.   

I prefer the Cardas RCAs to the Canare ones.   Mainly because terminating them correctly is much easier than using the Canare tools.   That may sound contrary to what others have said but I have the tools and have done both.   I much prefer the soldered Cardas connections.   The reason Blue Jeans uses the LV-77S is probably due to labor (and cost).   The Canare crimping method lends itself to the coax cables much easier than it does a twisted pair with a shield. 

Overall I'd say your not going to go too far wrong with either unless you get into some kind of unusual application (long lengths, passive line stage etc..).    The LV-77S cannot be used with balanced applications (XLRs) so if you need balanced cables you should go with our product.   The L-2T2S is better designed for analog applications (Canare's opinion, not just mine) but the Blue Jeans product is going to be cheaper terminated.   Ours will look better (more like a fancy high-end cable) and the L-2T2S has better handling properties (more flexible & pliable) but pick your poison.

None of the capacitance, resistance or inductance measurements of these cables in moderate lengths is going to determine audio quality.    That is a complex subject and one up to debate on what properties are most important.   I'd generally say you want to keep capacitance low, but numbers much higher than 20pF/ft are common in cables that people find perfectly acceptable.   The subjective preference is really a can of worms because nobody in the industry (or outside of the industry) has ever been able to tie some quantifiable measurement to subjective preference.    Right now making a better cable comes down to voodoo, snake oil and good marketing.

Just for a frame of reference though.  I single blind tested a group of people at CES a couple years ago.   We had a high dollar audio cable of good reputation (I'll not mention the name in order to not ruffle feathers) and we had a set of the L-2T2S I'd built.    The high end cable was about $1500/pr.    In this single blind test everyone picked the Canare L-2T2S as the better cable in that system.    This was not a scientific study by any means because we didn't have a large enough sampling but it just goes to show that an inexpensive product can at least be as good or better in a subjective evaluation in a given application.     

[WEEZ]

I think the LC-1 is a Belden cable.

[Kevin Haskins]

I think the LC-1 is a Belden cable.

It may be.... I don't know their product line.   I'd ignore their capacitance figure though because you cannot change the laws of physics.   If you have a coax cable with the conductors spaced the same your going to come up with a very similiar capacitance figure.    They are probably just measuring it differently.

[mfsoa]

Porter,
I've been using the BJC LC-1 for a few months because I thought it would be a good benchmark for a relatively budget interconnect.

I then purchased the DIY Cable kit, a 1 meter pr. Part of the desire was to get practice soldering something. I know that if I had to build it again, my solder job would be better!

To my ears, the DIY kit far outperforms the LC-1. It's hard to describe, but I get the feeling that with the LC-1 that the music is in some way compressed - Almost like only so much info can get through, and if some new info comes along and becomes prominent, that some other info must necessarily be compromised. But with the DIY kit, when a prominent sound is in the foreground, the other sounds are not changed or compromised.  I can't explain, but this is the feeling I get. It reminds me of Louis Armstrong's trumpet - When he goes up high, he still has the great tone and feel - Like he doesn't sacrifice his tone just because he's up in register. That may just sound like the stupidest thing ever, but these are the impressions I get and try to put into words.

The difference between these cables may be more in the terminations than in the wire. The Cardas of the DIY have a much different feel than the BJC, and while I'm loath to extrapolate sound quality based on what feels like a "richer, more solid etc." piece, I just think that the ends might be a significant factor in the sound, one way or another.


I also like the way the DIY kit has a fuller sound than my Tara RSC Reference II's. In my system it gives more body which it needs.

Hope this helps a little. Maybe get both and move them to components best suited to each.

-Mike

[WEEZ]

Kevin,

I agree re: the capacitance figure...in typical 3'-4' runs it's a non issue. The only reason I mentioned the LC-1 as being a Belden cable, is because while it has a double shield like the LV-77S, it uses a smaller center conductor...so it's not really the same.

mfsoa,

I like the sound of Canare better too. You explained it well...

WEEZ

[Kevin Haskins]

The difference between these cables may be more in the terminations than in the wire. The Cardas of the DIY have a much different feel than the BJC, and while I'm loath to extrapolate sound quality based on what feels like a "richer, more solid etc." piece, I just think that the ends might be a significant factor in the sound, one way or another.

It may be the terminations... I've not done exhaustive listening comparisons within the last couple years.    When I did I was using a Belden twisted pair and the Cardas parts always faired well in my evaluations.     

These cables do well enough that I spend my money on other parts of the system now rather than trying to find that magic bullet. 

[Porter]

Wow, thanks for your input folks!  Very informative and great food for thought.  I'll definitely give the DIYcable pieces a shot, they sound like good value for money.


On the subject of speaker cable... currently I'm using Straightwire Black Silc and am considering abandoning esoteric speaker cable entirely for good quality 10AWG stranded.  I'm moving to a "less is more" approach for the whole system, and probably transitioning to a single-driver speaker (Horn Shoppe).  Does anyone have any advice for me regarding jumping ship to the simple approach, pros/cons, etc?

[RAW]

I will put in my 2 cents for Kevin
We had a few large named cables to use in our room last year at CES which Kevin was in the room next to us( lucky me) and the cables we used was.
Kevins Canare that he had brought just as spares. (many thanks again )
These Cables are a very good cable for the money a few others we had which some cost $1200.00 for the 6ft pair made the mids compressed, or killed the low end extention of our speakers we had.Which by the way were powered by Kevins  (spare thanks again Kevin) UCD 180 amp.

Wtih Kevins craftsmanship into the finished product he is making  peanuts for the cables complete .
We have Kevin build us custom cables for our products and all use Canare.

Try the Canare you may just like it.

[Kevin Haskins]

I will put in my 2 cents for Kevin
We had a few large named cables to use in our room last year at CES which Kevin was in the room next to us( lucky me) and the cables we used was.
Kevins Canare that he had brought just as spares. (many thanks again )
These Cables are a very good cable for the money a few others we had which some cost $1200.00 for the 6ft pair made the mids compressed, or killed the low end extention of our speakers we had.Which by the way were powered by Kevins  (spare thanks again Kevin) UCD 180 amp.

Wtih Kevins craftsmanship into the finished product he is making  peanuts for the cables complete .
We have Kevin build us custom cables for our products and all use Canare.

Thanks Al... I bet the loudspeakers had something to do with how it sounded too. 

For RMAF how about a pair of Exodus UcD700 Monoblocks?   John and I have an evil scheme to put the stepped attenuator volume control in the monoblock @ the loudspeaker and control it with one of his TAP control modules.   

[RAW]

RMAF
That sounds great Kevin.
Lets keep that one on tap for this year.The 700's will drive a pair of Apex II very well I think.Just need to make sure get a better room this year.

Back at Johns monster today

[Moose]

Is there any particular reason behind using the Canare L-2T2S over the Canare L-4E6S? I would think the Star Quad would be superior to the two conductor stuff.

[Kevin Haskins]

Is there any particular reason behind using the Canare L-2T2S over the Canare L-4E6S? I would think the Star Quad would be superior to the two conductor stuff.

It is double the capacitance of the two conductor layout.   The best reason for star-quad type of configuration is due to the EMF cancellation.   You don't cast that large of a electromagnetic field with line level signals.   You do with speaker & power cables but there isn't a huge benefit to it at a lower signal level.

[guest1632]

Wow, thanks for your input folks!  Very informative and great food for thought.  I'll definitely give the DIYcable pieces a shot, they sound like good value for money.


On the subject of speaker cable... currently I'm using Straightwire Black Silc and am considering abandoning esoteric speaker cable entirely for good quality 10AWG stranded.  I'm moving to a "less is more" approach for the whole system, and probably transitioning to a single-driver speaker (Horn Shoppe).  Does anyone have any advice for me regarding jumping ship to the simple approach, pros/cons, etc?

Go get some anticable speaker wire. WWW.anticable.com. You can get it from him in bulk too which will save a lot of bucks for termination.

Ray