Been LISTENING TO DIGITAL TOO LONG

rollo · « **on:** 22 Jan 2007, 08:24 pm »

Have we been listening to digital too long and have forgotten what the real thing sounds like?
I thought so and decided to go a a live musical event.Heard an acoustic string quartet [no microphones] went home and was slightly disappointed.
I listen to pipedreams with SET and a Lector CDP7t not bad but the real thing is? I'll leave that for your comments.
rollo

Bill Baker · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 08:50 pm »

I have to agree. Everyone needs to experince live vinues from time to time when possible. It seems to put things back into perspective.
I just had a similar sensation when I recently focus more on vinyl for serious listening over digital playback. I know there are some top rate CD players available but vinyl just seems to capture the soul a bit better.
Although, never will "reproduced" music ever top the real things.....LIVE MUSIC!

Brad · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 08:54 pm »

There were trumpet and sax players with the band at church Sunday morning.
AMAZING how much tone/flavor is there for the hearing.

I'm with Bill on the vinyl - more feel-soul to it than bits/bytes.....

Levi · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 08:55 pm »

Yes I agree. I never heard of a system (money not an object) that would compare to ...LIVE MUSIC!!

miklorsmith · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 09:00 pm »

The real key is to figure out what your own hot buttons are for reproduction and focus on those. My big thing is dynamics/tone and my current setup does both extremely well.

Hantra · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 09:46 pm »

Quote from: Levi on 22 Jan 2007, 08:55 pm

Yes I agree. I never heard of a system (money not an object) that would compare to ...LIVE MUSIC!!

Find a McIntosh Premier dealer. The XRT2K's and the MC2KW's will produce live music. It won't do it for all music, but for some things it is completely live. If you get into something that needs to move a lot of air like a huge band or symphony, then it's as close as you'll get to live, but still not live. There's a point where physics takes over and becomes the limiting factor.

gme109 · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 12:43 am »

Quote from: Hantra on 22 Jan 2007, 09:46 pm

Quote from: Levi on 22 Jan 2007, 08:55 pm
Yes I agree. I never heard of a system (money not an object) that would compare to ...LIVE MUSIC!!

Find a McIntosh Premier dealer. The XRT2K's and the MC2KW's will produce live music. It won't do it for all music, but for some things it is completely live. If you get into something that needs to move a lot of air like a huge band or symphony, then it's as close as you'll get to live, but still not live. There's a point where physics takes over and becomes the limiting factor.

Impressive! I love linearray's. That's why I own a pair, not these, but Selah Audio Excelarray's. Doubt I could afford a pair of these.

rollo · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 12:53 am »

Hey,
Didn't want you to think i don't listen to vinyl I do My Linn is down[what a suprise] and I've fooling with a TVC[Promitheus] for a while.Vinyl is the format for me CD is just for new music NOT available on vinyl.
After hearing the live thing the TT is going for a new power supply.Live music made me lust for vinyl again.Not saying one format is better than the other,just that the live experience reminded more of vinyl than CD.
Most of all it reminded me of my GOAL in my system get away from that HiFi sound as much as possible.How about YOU?
rollo

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 02:19 am »

A few of the NORCal guys were together at Ribbonspeakers.net house several weeks back.

Big B/Brian of VMPS was there. After going thru the process of tuning his $5000-or-so speakers there, backed up with several thousands in carefully chosen audiophile amplification and source...I asked him about how far we are to achieving 'live/real' sound?

He answered about 80%. Seems about right to me. That last 20% sure is frustratingly far away and important, eh?

lcrim · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 03:02 am »

I listen to mainly vinyl but attend live music quite a great deal and I very often prefer recordings to the live event. Of course it depends on a lot of factors, but if I go to the trouble and expense of going to listen to music my expectations are much higher and I'm often disappointed. There are such things as lousy seats, bad halls, poor performances etc. I still continue to go but I just can't agree with the belief that live is always better, it isn't.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 07:29 am »

I'll often prefer a recording to a "live" performance of rock music; most of the clubs and arenas I've been to sound atrocious. If you have a crappy PA system, cranked far too loud in an environment with awful acoustics, the result isn't pretty. With amplified rock in a great venue it gets a bit closer, to be sure. Since your home speakers are reproducing the guitarist's speaker, not his guitar per se, it's hard to imagine how the home speaker will do it any better. But the home speaker can certainly do a better job with the singer's vocals. That is to say the guitar/amp combo is creating the sound whereas the PA is reproducing the singer's vocals.

With live music in a good venue I don't think any home audio system is gonna touch that. Maybe not ever. As computing power increases we'll be able to model everything better, from the way sound is created and propagates to the way it's reproduced. And we'll probably have a much better understanding of the psychoacoustic factors at woark, too. To me the Holy Grail of an orchestra at full tilt will likely remain elusive for quite some time. Small scale stuff is easier, IMO. A person could be sitting between your speakers, playing an acoustic guitar. But it's trickier perhaps to imagine a full symphony orchestra in your listening space.

I guess that's why we listen in the dark, so we imagine we're there, not the other way around.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 02:53 pm »

Hey Rob, This is another problem. Not all live events are set up properly and can sound horrible. I have heard bands play in bars that sounded better than some big concerts. I will have to say the best live venue I heard in 2006 was "The Little River Band". This was an outdoor event on a beautiful night. It was a flood relief event and you could tell by the good time everyone was having that their minds were at ease. At least for a few hours. The band was in excellent shape and sounded as good as they did many years ago.

The whole event was an all day venue with over 10 bands playing throughout the day. It cost $5 to get in with The Little River Band showcasing last. Even though they were 2 hours late due to airport issues..... it was the best time I had all summer.
The only downfall was the cost of beer. $3.50 a can

Thebiker · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 04:08 pm »

The problem with most live concerts, especially rock, is that they are staged in a sport stadium. Whether it's a football field or a hockey rink, these places weren't designed for music. It's even worse than a room with no acoustic treatments, it's like waving your **** around in a warm room. It's nice but it doesn't really get it done

.

I will admit to be a musical snob when it comes to live music, but I primarily only go to classical concerts at this point and it doesn't get any better than Boston's Symphony Hall. But that is why that is the only concerts that I attend. If I pay big bucks for the ticket, I want to hear the music. My first concert there was Segovia back in the mid 70's (yeah I'm an old biker) but one man and one guitar filled that hall with sound

.

My point, yeah I have one, is that's why I want the best sound reproduction that I can afford, which is how I ended up with triodes. Got to have that full midrange aa

Levi · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 04:34 pm »

I agree with all.

Let us also put in consideration that not all recorded CDs are great sounding. Just like vinyl. It all depends on who is recording, which studio, the equipment used and such.

gooberdude · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 05:52 pm »

Rollo, you need to get your Linn fixed!!!!!!!!!!! My TT was out of commission for almost 90 days...digital is for the birds!

I'm not sure if this is in the spirit of the thread, but my stereo addiction has made me appreciate live music much more...i'm even able to identify it in a way like never before. i'm also careful to wear earplugs each time i go see a live show. After all the time & $ spent on my system it'd be a shame to not be able to enjoy it in a few years due to hearing loss.

over the Holidays a popular sandwich chain here always has a guitarist and a vocalist singing in the stores..but they sit up next to the ceiling on a loft platform that normally holds signs and nick-nacks. I was standing in line and couldn't stand the amazing sound the stores stereo was producing (i didn't realize nor could i see the musicians!) so I asked the lady behind the counter what the music was...she just smiled and pointed toward the ceiling. The musicians were only a stones throw away. Funny though that deep down I knew the sounds were from live musicians, though i couldn't see them nor was I expecting it.

If the music was coming from a PA system i was prepared to buy it on the spot!

Thebiker · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 01:37 pm »

Levi,
You got the CD quality problem right. As much as I don't want to go back to vinyl, for some music I going to have to

.

There is a lot of great jazz out there that has been "re-mastered" to CD. I don't know who sat at the mixing board, but from the lack of sound quality, my cat could have done as well. I just got a "Best of Buddy Rich" CD that is unfit to listen to. The best description of this dreck is thin and harsh. The music is great, Buddy could really cook, but the recording quality is non-existent. I'm married to a musician and she was begging me to turn it off just before I reached for the remote. And this is using a triode based system. Solid state would have been even more painful.

rollo · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 03:09 pm »

Gooberdude,
The TT is going in Friday for repair,can't take it any longer.
Don't mean to insult anyone,but the quality of todays rock concert sound is fair at best.To really test the metal of your system go listen to a LIVE UNAMPLIFIED ACOUSTIC event like guitar or piano.Go home and play similar venue.This will aid you in achieving a sound close to the reference of live music.If you really want to be rocked,bring a cymbal into your listening space and hit it a few times.Listen to the metallic hit shimmer and LOOOOONG decay.Put some music on the CDP with cymbals,then an LP.
What do you think now?I think our only reference to our hobby is a live acoustical event[no mikes].I'll never forget the day I went to audition a pair of Mirage 3Si's.We listened in a small area and it was real good.The seller said,now lets listen to some music.So I thought we were going to listen to his main rig[HiFi] but I was wrong.
He took us into his LR where there was a grand piano and began to play,do you know how loud and dynamic a piano is in a small venue.The lowest notes were gutwrenching and the decay was unbelievable.After listening to piano recordings to demo the Mirages we were disappointed of course.Bought the speakers anyway.
So go into your listening space with a real instrument and see what I mean.
rollo

audiotom · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 04:59 am »

rollo has the right idea - acoustic unamplified

I ws in NYC several years ago and caught the Mingus Big Band at the IT Club in the lower east village

they apologized as their pa system was not working so they basically only amplified the flute

I was astounded at how full and vibrant the music was with this big piece combo going full flight in this club.

Everything jelled and yet you could pick out each individaul instrument. As things really ripped at one point the sound of the subway passing through mixed with this dynamic group in a very engaging way

even back in N.O. most groups, even small jazz are amplified - good but that night in NYC was magical

rollo · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Feb 2007, 05:21 pm »

audiotom,
Could not agree more.Just the idea of non amplified music makes me feel good.Go out and get some cymbals,triangles,bells and play them in your listening room and prepare to be disappointed.
rollo

Daygloworange · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Feb 2007, 06:35 pm »

I go and listen to live music a couple of times a month. I love live music. I love the experience. That is something that can't be captured on a medium. I have attended a lot of classical concerts as well.

I more often that not, hate the sonics of live events. The imbalance between instruments is usually pretty bad. Vocals through a PA are rarely good. Listening to a good vocalist through a crappy dynamic mic that's primarily designed so as not to feedback, and has a presence peak built into it to make a vocal more prominent are nowhere near what can be achieved in a controlled recording studio environment with a good large diaphram condenser/tube mic.

In a live event you listen with your eyes, as much as your ears. I have performed live for many years. It used to boggle my mind when people would come up to and compliment you on the best show they've ever seen you do, when it was in all actuality, it was the worst one you've ever done. It never made sense, yet people were very sincere about there perception of what they heard.

We often discuss in threads here the psychological factors at play in our 2 channel obsessions. I think they play a larger role in a live event situation that they do at home while listening to out systems.

Cheers