What wire to wind toroidal core inductors? (41hz Amp4)

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Reverie

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Hey all,

Further to my thread on what cores to use on the toroidal output inductors of my amp4 kit, I realised I now need to decide what wire to wind them with.   

Now, I am using  Metglas (Anamorphous) Cores, whom supplied them with the recommendation I needed 15 turns of AWG16 wire on each to make them ideal for my requirements.  I thought getting the wire would be quite straightforward- a simple piece of standard copper wire.

However, I didn’t realise how much division there was over which material is best, and hadn’t even begun to consider insulation.

While some successful amps have used copper (such as the Red Wine Audio Signature 30), some people have expressed the view that silver is a sonically favourable material. As one person put it:

“The difference between copper and silver wire is far greater the then numbers would suggest. In fact, I doubt that the difference would be very noticeable if it were only the conductivity. Silver has an entirely different sound that is particularly noticeable in the higher registers and in the overall detail and soundstaging. The use of silver is what Audionote Japan famous. Hand drawing silver takes things a step further because, unlike machine made silver wire and ribbon, The successive drawing of the material through progressively smaller dies creates a material the is essentially a monocrystal.”

On the other hand, some have pointed out that Silver is harder to handle, which as a result, means it is harder to wind both tightly, and evenly, around the core, factors which could have a greater impact on the result (apparently).

Additionally, silver costs significantly more, and some people have stated it could sound ‘brighter’, which might be an issue for me, considering Tripath amps are supposed to sound bright anyway, and my Monitor Audio BR2s are a tad on the bright side too.
 
As for insulation, whereas Teflon is common and cheap, natural materials are said to make a more natural sound. However I am undecided as to whether this is true.

Electrum Audio, who I go to to find many good audio bits cheap, have 1.2mm hand drawn .999% silver insulated with cotton that has been permeated with beeswax for $6.00 per foot with an additional $2.00 per foot cryogenic treatment option. However, unfortunately there is a 10 foot minimum order.

Any opinions on this would be greatly appreciated! :)

Thanks,
Peter
« Last Edit: 23 Jan 2007, 06:21 pm by Reverie »

JoshK

Re: What wire to wind toroidal core inductors? (41hz Amp4)
« Reply #1 on: 20 Jan 2007, 07:00 pm »
personally I'd stick to magnet wire, but you can get really good OCC magnet wire from vampire wire in bulk. I've played with silver wire some and ultimately go back to copper for a most balanced sound (IMO).

Reverie

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Re: What wire to wind toroidal core inductors? (41hz Amp4)
« Reply #2 on: 21 Jan 2007, 03:46 pm »
personally I'd stick to magnet wire, but you can get really good OCC magnet wire from vampire wire in bulk. I've played with silver wire some and ultimately go back to copper for a most balanced sound (IMO).

Interesting. Thanks for the post.

I guess I should view the hook-up wire in a similar light; I had not previously considerred this.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the magnet wire you speak of on Vampire Wire. Do you think you could provide a link? :oops:

However, what I did find www.thediyaudiostore.com as a good source of seemingly high-quality copper wire at very cheap prices, and accompanying cotton insulation , though I am unsure if they do it in the correct AWGs.
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2007, 02:02 pm by Reverie »

Porter

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Re: What wire to wind toroidal core inductors? (41hz Amp4)
« Reply #3 on: 26 Jan 2007, 02:22 pm »
This may help, dunno if it's OCC though:

Copper magnet wire (poly coating) http://www.surplussales.com/Wire-Cable/Wire6.html
Silver magnet wire (yarn coating) http://www.surplussales.com/Wire-Cable/Wire8.html

The silver is only available in small sizes... 30AWG or smaller.  The copper goes all the way up to 8AWG.

JoshK

Re: What wire to wind toroidal core inductors? (41hz Amp4)
« Reply #4 on: 26 Jan 2007, 02:31 pm »
Sorry for not providing the link.  I violated my own pet peeve about that.  :oops: 

Looks like Vampire wire isn't providing small qty's anymore of their magnet wire.  http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&page=2&cat=8  ($14K isn't a small sum).

Mike Percy (percyaudio.com) is blowing out the remaining vampire wire magnet wire he has.  I guess I'd grab it while you can if that is what you want.  The other stuff that the above poster linked to is worth investigating too. 

I just read that magnet wire has the right qualities needed to make more optimal magnetics.  Optimal in which way, I don't know. 

Porter

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Re: What wire to wind toroidal core inductors? (41hz Amp4)
« Reply #5 on: 26 Jan 2007, 02:32 pm »
Another magnet wire source is http://www.mwswire.com/

They're a huge magnet wire distributor... chances are they will have something that is close to what you need.