Does anyone use Furutech 15A receptacle ?

Dyak · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 03:28 pm »

Hey MichaelAV,

For me, the outlets took a bit over 100-hours (+/-) before the changes started to become less noticeable (to me). Just as you noted, the immediate difference is quite nice....I heard the same exact differences that you did.

As for the Flavor 4.....on Chris' (VH-Audio) website, I trust you've found the other recipies....and yes, you are correct, there is not a recipe listed for Flavor 4. Chis has been very responsive and helpful each time that I've emailed him with questions. From what I've read Chris has earned a very good reputation for those exact reasons (not to mention good products, good prices, etc...again, in my opinion). So....please confirm what I write below with him, as he is the expert, not me....I'm just passing on what I've found-out and done (correctly or incorrectly).

That being said, the Flavor 2 and the Flavor 4 Recipies are nearly the same....the 2-differences in the recipies (to the best of my knowledge) are:

1) The Flavor 4 uses the Cryoed Star Quad (12 AWG X 4) while the Flavor 2 uses the Cryoed UNSHIELDED Twisted Pair (12 AWG X 2) (seen under the bulk wire, cable &.... link)

2) The Flavor 4 should use the 10-AWG ground, while the Flavor 2 uses the 12-AWG.

OK, note that F4 (Flavor 4) uses the star-quad cable (this star-quad design is reported to be able to reject RFI/EMI), that is 4-conductors (2-hot and 2-neutral) while the F2 (Flavor 2) uses 2 conductors (1-hot, 1-neutral). If considering F4, then consider confirming that the terminations (IEC/Plug) can accept two 12-awg cables. For reference, I used some cryoed Wattgates on my first F4 and had some difficulty getting both hot conductors into the "hot" opening on the plug/IEC. One more reference to the Furutech here....the openings on the plug/IECs are sized to accomdate the two 12-AWG wires (I'm sure other brands will work also, though I have no experience or knowledge regarding them) and are easier than the Wattgates to work with.

So, once the proper proper "ingredients" are acquired for the F4 cord, one would just follow the F2 Recipe.

Again, if anyone decides to try the Flavor 4 Recipe, please check (and double check!) all that I've written with Chris VenHaus before purchase/construction. Also, if anyone sees any flaws in what I've written, PLEASE POINT THEM OUT!!! Thanks in advance.

Hope this helps,

Good luck and be safe!

Doug

gooberdude · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 04:42 pm »

hey Doug,

I think you're explanation is spot on. At some point I will buy the bulk ingredients to make a pair of Flavor 4's in place of the DH labs cable i use. Thanks for stating the correct gauge for the ground wire, i was unsure about that.

In your experience, how thick is a finished Flav 4? it sounds like with the extra tubing required for the FLav 4 it ends up being a hefty beast. what are your thoughts? i don't need to snake the cable around corners or anything...but the DH labs cable is able to yank my VPP-1 phono pre around like a rag doll if i'm not really careful.

Stuffing the 2 combined runs of star quad wire could be an issue with the Oyaide plugs...the Furu Fi-11 plugs are much easier to stuff large gauge wire into IMO. In addition, the rear strain relief is a better design on the Furu's, the stupid rubber gasket on the Oyaides makes it difficult to slide the body on and off of thick cables. Furu's strain relief set-up should be the standard...

matt

Dyak · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 Jan 2007, 08:50 pm »

Heya Matt,

The finished Flavor 4, with techflex is about 1" [Correction Here: After checking I found it is actully closer to 3/4" or 19-mm] in diameter....VERY Beefy...looks similar to a garden hose to me. It turns out to be a rather badass looking cable in my opinion.

(I'll confirm that when I get home and if I'm off by much, I'll correct myself in a later post.)

OK...here's a buncha hemmin'-and-hawin' and saying alot without giving a solid answer.....

I apologize in advance for my equivocation on this one.... Yes, it can be difficult to get it bent into rather tight corners though may be possible if your gear is not too light or on rollerballs, (or vibrapod cones). It is a bit more flexible than one or two other heavy gauge power cords I've had a chance to try. Duster or others (maybe Chris VH himself?) may be able to give you a better feel for the flexibility relative to other power cords....

I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, but by cutting the air-hose a bit shorter, thus leaving a relatively short length (~4" or so?) of the star-quad cable "exposed" (it's still insulated!) at either end can make the ends of the cord much more flexible....though this may somehow impact the sonics in some esoteric manner (though I have no idea!!). But that's some of the fun with DIY (for me at least)....try it, don't like it, try it another way...'till I dig it.

Yeah, I do enjoy how easy it is to work with the Furutechs and the strain relief is truly that...a strain relief (for me

) Sorry, couldn't resist.... Yeah, would be nice if it was the standard....I definitely dig-it.

Something else that I've tried.... I used ProGold on the ends of the wires before inserting them into the outlets, plugs, and IEC ends. Not bad... months later I snipped the stripped ends off of the wires, re-stripped the insulation and then applied a small amount of the Walker SST to the wires and reinserted them into the outlets, plugs, and IECs....Very nice....though, obviously one must be VERY careful as this 'paste' is conductive!! So the potential for a short

is a very real possibility if one isn't extremely careful. At some point I may re-strip the ends of the power cables and try a different contact enhancer. Looks like my power cords may just keep getting shorter and shorter if I keep trying different stuff

Best!

Doug

For those interested.....A brief write-up on VH's 'flavor' cords: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=22523.0

michaelv · « **Reply #23 on:** 20 Jan 2007, 08:52 pm »

First, i didn't know that this room was gone forever..

but it is here...

anyway, it has been 2 days with new Furutech...I must say, every time i listen to music, the sound is more defined. Bass is great (exactly what i expect). I use to leave a maple board under my plinius 9200. The high is kind of harsh. Now after removing that board and leav the integrated amp on the mdf shelf, i can be happier. Both bass , mid, and high are great. I believe it would be greater after break-in.

Thanks, Dyak for the info on flavor 4. Right now, i am not even sure i would go with flavor 2 or 4 . The plinius is rated at 200wpc. So do you think flavor 2 would work? If so, i can get it from audiogon since i see some are poping up right now.

Thanks again.

Dyak · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 07:30 pm »

Hey MichaelV,

Great to know that the Furutech outlet is working well for you!

The simple answer to your question is 'yes', it would work for you.

OK, now for the caveats.... (Quoted directly from vhaudio.com), "The VH Audio Flavor 2 power cord is designed primary for front-end analog components and low power amplifiers." whereas "The VH Audio Flavor 4 power cord is designed for high current amplifiers and digital transports or CD players." I'm sure you've seen this, else you probably would not have asked an opinion.....

OK, opinion time....my guess is that the F2 cord, could work in your application, though it is not likely to be considered "optimal". I actually consider a high end integrated, such as yours, that can generate 400-watts (200-wpc), rather powerful. If you are considering only VH-Audio at this point, then the F4 cable is more likely a better match with both your Plinius Integrated and/or you Ayre CD player...if you don't like it on one, you might like it on the other. That being said, if you can find a really good price on A-gon (or elsewhere) it may well be worth the investment to try an F2.

When I was considering my first "high-end" power cord purchase, I decided to try a DIY flavor 4 (for my amp) with the cryoed Wattgates. There was some improvement in sound quality....though I didn't discover how good the cord might be until I tried some "audiophile" terminations (for me it was the Furutechs).....For what its worth....I wish that I had been a bit more disciplined and patient, and saved a few more $$ for that option from the very beginning. Just to let everyone know, yesterday, I ordered the parts to make one more F4 with my favorite terminations...so you obviously know the direction that I lean here. (Note to Matt, I also ordered a pair of the FurutechAg IEC plugs!! thanks again for refreshing my memory on that one).

Obviously, buying preowned/demo/B-stock/diy is great, but typically if one doesn't like the product then one is "stuck" with it, or must turn around and sell it again. On-the-other-hand, many internet based cable suppliers/manufacturers provide a "trial period". For example, Chris offers (quoted from his site) "All stock power cables and interconnects are covered by VH Audio’s industry leading product guarantee: If you aren’t delighted with your purchase within 60 days of purchase, VH Audio will cheerfully refund your purchase price. * Click here for full details ". Take advantage of this trial period....in fact one could get a few cables from different manufactures and do direct comparisons...then return the cables that are liked least. There are quite a few posts on audioaylum.com where the poster has done this comparison and posted his/her findings & opinions. The 3-forums most likely to have these types of posts are: Cables, Tweaks/DIY, and Product Reviews, all accessible via the homepage.

Hope the thoughts above help you in your deliberation. You'll have to weigh your options.....Best of luck and hope you find a cable that works well for you in your system.

Trust your ears,

Doug

For those interested:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/vhaudio.htm

michaelv · « **Reply #25 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 04:14 pm »

Currently i have a Signal Magic cable from signal.com and XLO reference 2 10A.

THe plugs are marinco. What do you think if i replace the male and female connector by Furutech FI-11M (cu) and FI-11 (Ag)? Since the receptacle is Furutech and i can hear the improvement, i hope , just replacing the connector, that the improvement is much more.

thanks.

Dyak · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 Jan 2007, 09:09 pm »

MichaelV

Could make a nice difference....though I have no personal experience with this cable.

Once again, check out the AA. Here's a couple of related links. 'Duster' is the AC connector guy....his posts are worth looking-up over there.

My understanding is that there is a "synergy" effect....some connectors work very well with some cables while others may not.... If you dig on experimentation then, by all means, go for it.....If you're looking for best bang-for-the-buck sonics then another well tried and reported on route may be the right choice....

I quote Duster's AudioAsylum post of 12/4/04, "I've found that a Marinco 5266 AC plug offers a more "polite" and subjectively natural presentation (reduced sonic signature) than the Furutech when terminated to this particular power cord (in my system). The Furutech will go back to it's previous use on a source power cord." See the links below, I forget what cable he's referring to.....

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=105254
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=100957

Do some searches! Its easy and interesting to read people's impressions.... It can be so much more valuable in the long run (and maybe to your wallet too

) than just asking a small few....

Best!

Doug

michaelv · « **Reply #27 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 03:55 am »

thanks , Doug.

great info on AA ...

michaelv · « **Reply #28 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 04:56 am »

doug,
by the way, i have decided to try DIY Flavor 4 from VH audio. From your experience, i have two more questions

1> Did you just twist two 12 awg (star-quad cable) togother and insert it into the plug or you had to solder it ?

2> I would like to get FI-11 version, but Chris suggests on his FAQ that FI-25 is easier to work with Flavor 4. So, can both version of plugs accept up to 10 awg size?

thanks.

Dyak · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 06:39 pm »

MichaelV,

Please don't take this too harshly.... Please understand that I do mean this post to be an "eye-opener"

for you....At the same time, I personally, I mean you no ill-will.

You have not done your homework! You have not contacted Chis VH. Have you researched any of the suggestions that Matt or I have offered? Or do you just ask and ask, 'cuz its easier?

I love talking audio, and passing on what I know or have discovered, though it can be frustrating when one takes no visible steps to learn and wants to be "spoon-fed".

If you will not take the time to learn from it, I wonder how long it might be until the first short and fire occur....will I be blamed for the fire because I provided the info?? Do not trust me!!!!...what if I'm a liar?....will you double (or even triple check) check anything that I've written??

Believe this though: DIY w/ electrical current is very dangerous!!!

1) Why would you want to connect 2 star quad cables together?

There is nothing, in any directions, especially not on Chris' site that suggest doing that.

2) You did not even really look at Chris' site...did you?

.... I quote directly from it, "Furutech's FI-11 series male AC connectors are arguably the best bang for the buck connectors on the market, and will accept larger O.D. cabling (up to 16mm). They are very easy to work with, require no soldering, and will accept up to two 12 AWG wires per terminal." (http://www.vhaudio.com/connectors-ac.html)

OK, that, I'm sure was insulting to you; I apologize. I apologize for my "preachiness" also.

Please understand that at the same time your most recent questions were insulting to me... as I've provided numerous resources already that will answer all of your questions, with a small amount of effort...and you haven't followed-up on them.

Please be very careful! And best of luck to you. No hard feelings intended.

Doug

gooberdude · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 08:05 pm »

I think Michael was asking how to combine 2 of the 4 star quad wires into a single wire end and fit that fat end into the plugs...not attaching 2 separate cables. 2 indiv 12 gauge strands will require a large opening in the plug. i seriously doubt the Oyaide plugs I use could accept the star quad, unless i tore out the plastic inner ring so i could access the clamps directly.

i've not had an FI-25 to play with yet, but i'd be surprised if the opening where you stick the bare ends is larger on that model versus the FI-11, but i could be dead wrong...again that's something to ask Chris V or another vendor. the Fi-25 plugs have an excellent reputation regardless.

Doug, you bring up a VERY good point about safety though. i always recomend that folks assemble power cords due to the savings involved and the fact you can swap out components as your ear and wallet grows. I've read debate's in other forums about whether or not a self assembled cable (made from UL approved parts) is OK with your home insurance carrier. i've never had the guts to call mine up and ask them, so I check the connections periodically & say a little prayer! If someone has never put a cable together, by all means consider paying the extra $ to have a pro assemble it. there may be a sonic advantage to this as well...i think Chris V solders the bare ends to the plug ends. On other forums, posters like Duster have mentioned the sonics improve when the connections are all soldered.

Doug is correct in the seriousness of his tone that these cables can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing...same with installing a new outlet.

One last thing to consider is that a local audio repair shop could assemble cables as well, probably for $40 or less depending on their hourly charge.

I get satisfaction from assebmling my own, but i'd feel like a complete ass if I were to cause a fire!

michaelv · « **Reply #31 on:** 26 Jan 2007, 07:26 pm »

I actually read it in vhaudio.com before i asked since i could not figure out how thick the cable is when twisted together. Chris recommend FI-25, but i would like FI-11 even though i know that FI-25 is much better based on lots of opions. And i could not affor FI-25 now. By the way, sorry for asking question in same topic ...I certainly do more research before i ask next time..

Dyak · « **Reply #32 on:** 26 Jan 2007, 09:48 pm »

Hi MichaelV,

I'd like to apologize to you also. I let the stress from my work interfere and affect my reply to you, and I should have handled myself (and my reply) better than I did, I apologize.

If I recall correctly, the star-quad wire has a composite gauge of about 9-AWG for pair of "Line" conductors and about 9-AWG for the pair of "Neutral" wires (though I'm uncertain). Regardless, this wire will fit into the FI-11 or FI-25 plugs fairly easily....It does require a bit of effort to make everything fit and have it look really nice but, as I understand it, these plugs are easier to work with than most.

As for the FI-11 vs. FI-25, I've read that the gold plated FI-25s are "lush" sounding, or very warm.....I understand that they may sound more warm than the FI-11s. So if you want/need EXTRA warmth then the FI-25s may be the right ones.

My ears tell me that the FI-11s added a nice amount of warmth to my system's sound. I 'm not sure if I'd like more of that "warmth-factor" that the FI-25 could provide or not.... I do know that I really like what the copper FI-11s plugs, FP-15 copper outlets, and FI-10 Gold IEC inlets have done for my system. In my system the amount of audible detail, warmth, soundstage, and image placement all increased/improved with the addition of these items.

Best,

Doug

Midnite Mick · « **Reply #33 on:** 1 Feb 2007, 12:25 am »

I apologize for taking the conversation in another direction, but I knew I could post my question here without the ridicule that this topic can lead to.

Which do you guys think is better as this can be a bit of a work in process type of operation. Is it better to start the upgrade path at the wall and work your way into the equipment or start at the equipment and work your way into the wall?

Thanks,
Mike

gooberdude · « **Reply #34 on:** 1 Feb 2007, 01:11 am »

i'm a newbie but feel no buyers remorse.

spending $40 or more on a wall outlet is sensible to me...unless your system needs help elsewhere.

i initially purchased a $12 outlet at Home Depot, then a $26 cryo'd P&S 5262 from chris vh.

the $40 furu fi-15cu is lightyears ahead of the other 2.

michaelv · « **Reply #35 on:** 1 Feb 2007, 07:33 pm »

Me too. I start out from the wall outlet with Furutech ($40) [ Thanks to Dyak and gooberdude for valuable suggestions]. I can hear the improvement right away, more punch in the low end as i want.

Even though, i'm happy with the sound right now, but my cables are all signalcable (even though signalcable is a great value), but the plugs are marinco, i guess. So, i place order Furutech male/female ends to replace the XLO i have . If the improvement is audible, i will diy other two cables, probably one from VH Audio and one from DH lab Power plus.

Dyak · « **Reply #36 on:** 1 Feb 2007, 10:33 pm »

Hey Midnight,

I did the same....I started w/the outlet first. I can't prove that this is the "best" route....but it worked quite well for me. Most suggestions/posts that I've read, claim that starting with the outlet (or a dedicated line for the audio gear) is the right place to "begin".

I followed the same path as Gooberdude (HomeDepot then cryo P&S then Furu FI-15), with same results and opinions as both MichaelV and Gooberdude.... For $40, the Furtuech fi-15 really rocks. And as MichaelV stated, the difference is immediately audible...very cool.

I would pick upgrading the outlet as a very good "bang-for-the-buck" kind of upgrade (especially this outlet!).

Good Luck,

Doug

Midnite Mick · « **Reply #37 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 12:11 am »

Thanks guys. Will do the same.

Mike

bluemike · « **Reply #38 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 12:31 am »

There's a fellow by the name of Albert Porter who sells his own patent receptacles called Porter Ports

They're very good IMO

Check the Audiogon Classiifieds for further informaton on these

maxwalrath · « **Reply #39 on:** 2 Feb 2007, 12:42 am »

Quote from: bluemike on 2 Feb 2007, 12:31 am

There's a fellow by the name of Albert Porter who sells his own patent receptacles called Porter Ports

They're very good IMO

Check the Audiogon Classiifieds for further informaton on these

Greg Straley posted here that he did a receptacle shootout, and found Porter's to be his favorite. I say this any time a receptacle thread gets started, but I've never heard of anyone else doing a shootout so it seems worth saying.