[doug s.]

dusty, i agree w/ya - synergy is key w/these dacs.

francisco, i don't believe there's more to be gained in my sytem w/further power conditioning, short of dedicated transformers from the outside transformer, for my system.  which may actually happen, some time down the road...     how much power conditioning is needed is dependent on your situation - i live in a wery rural area, my house has its own dedicated transformer, & i have clean stable power.  my amps are plugged in to a vans evers unlimiter, my x-over has its own isolation x-former.

my front end starts w/a 10 amp isolation transformer plugged in to the wall.  a power strip is plugged into this.  into the power strip are plugged two isolation transformers, one for dac, the other for transport.  also plugged into the transformer are a tripplite 2400w conditioner and a vans evers unlimiter.  the triplite is for accessories, the vans evers gets fono stage, preamp, turntable, & tuner.  more than adequate, considering my basic clean power, imo.  you live in a condo, w/many panels for many condo units all fed from a transformer.  your needs are different from mine.

regards,

doug s.

[Ron D]

Couldn't agree more about personal taste - thats why I like the CI Dac. I'm of the opinion that "better than" is in reality "different". Because something is different doesn't necessarily make it better. It may only be "better" to your ears and to no one else's in the room. Especially when it comes to digital gear. I've had instances where I heard things that I hadn't heard before (extra guitar pluck, etc.) when auditioning a new piece of gear but in the end wasn't crazy about the presentation. Sound systems are like art - too subjective to say what is best. Can't warm up to Picasso but really love Monet...

[Psychicanimal]

When I went to your house I told ewe there was noise in the system--it's like a veil over the music.

[doug s.]

" When I went to your house I told ewe there was noise in the system--it's like a veil over the music."
===================
i guess we'll yust have to agree to disagree...  

regards,

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

" When I went to your house I told ewe there was noise in the system--it's like a veil over the music."
===================
i guess we'll yust have to agree to disagree...  

regards,

doug s.

I could point exactly what's going on w/ your system* but ewe want to be "right" about your noise scenario.  If we were to take a poll here or in Audiogon, which one of us would the people believe--especially since I actually listened to your setup?  



* for a start, that $5 power strip where you plug your stuff actually degrades the sound...

[doug s.]

i don't care about polls, contests, etc...  sure ya listened to mys system - for a coupla hours.  ya also told me it was more musical when i dragged the thiel 3.5's from the kitchen & put 'em in the main rig!     ya also told me, later when ya got home, that ya had some kinda stomach bug & felt like s**t, & ya were sorry about that....  

it's not whether i "wanna be right", etc - sorry, but i have enuff confidence in my ears...

regards,

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

it's not whether i "wanna be right", etc - sorry, but i have enuff confidence in my ears...

Doug:

Noise control is about not hearing instead of hearing.  Your threshold is your present noise control measures.  Not until after one lowers the noise floor do the ears get used to the clarity.  As I have lowered and lowered the noise in my system more music comes out.  Ewe need to experience transparency in order to reallize the veil in your system.  I listened to it for a couple of hours but I've listened to mine for many many hours.  When I listened to yours I could tell immediately there was still a lot of noise remaining.  It takes a lot of dB reduction to get noise under control--even in the countryside.  Just ask Lak.  When he heard my system's clarity it shocked him.  How could my system sound so good with rather inexpensive components?   Noise control was a big part of it.

Have a nice weekend...

[doug s.]

francisco, see my prewious post on this thread:

"...noisefloor is someting not always noticed until it's *gone*...."  

i awreddy *know* this.  i know from the details of what i hear in my system, that the noise floor is close to bottom.  i have awreddy heard layers of detail emerge from lowering the noisefloor w/additional isolation transformers.  perhaps ya need to come back sometime, when yure not hearing yer indigestion!  

well, off to the outer banks for a week, to clear out the senses.  mebbe i'll hear too much noise in my system, when i get back, & *then* i will need more power conditioning!  

regards,

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

If ewe ever come to listen to my rig I'll have the EMTs standing by...  

Porfiado.

[Jay S]

Doug,

In case you want to look into power strips, I like the one by Bolder Cable ($250 with 3 pairs of Acme silver plated outlets).  Ernie's POBox (from Audiogon) seems to be a quality product at a lower price (if you're not interested in silver plated outlets).

[Marbles]

Sound systems are like art - too subjective to say what is best. Can't warm up to Picasso but really love Monet......

Ron, I like them both...I used to have a copy of a monet, a naked women (of course!!!) and my grandfather had some Picasso (original) sketches of naked women.....

I think naked women are the real art objects  

[Ron D]

"I think naked women are the real art objects "

Why am I not surprised...

[doug s.]

emt's!     francisco, i'm glad ya like the music yer system makes, that's what it's all about, after all!  

jay, i'm keeping my eyes peeled for decent reasonably priced power strips - i need one for the amps, & another for the front end stuff.  but i'm cheap - now, if i could get *two* of those bolder cable strips for ~$250...  

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

emt's!     francisco, i'm glad ya like the music yer system makes, that's what it's all about, after all!  
doug s.

My system makes really good music, but it's the noise that my system doesn't make what makes it spooky.  Lak has more resource$ than me, and lives in a house with separate music room (six dedicated lines).  His noise control rig has gotten to be even beter!  Here's some pictures:

*********

OK, these are Xentech Extreme isolation transformers in 220V mode.  They are supported by Audiopoints and under the cinder block we find several used hockey pucks.  Their noise reduction specs are in the order of (- 140 dB).  Fantastic!





This is a "special edition" Clear Image T4.  The board on the upper left hand corner is an Audio Prism ACFX circuit--part of the "special edition" thing, as well as better internal wiring and better switches, plus an integral power cord.  Seems only three or four of these were built. Lak compared one of my T4's to this one and says it's 10-15% better.  I plan to use one for analog line level, one for digital components for further reducing crosstalk.  If you notice where the screws go in the chassis they look like pennies.  The entire chassis is copper plated on all T4's.  Even the screws holding down the filter modules are copper!  This thing is shielded to the max!




This is Lak's rack.  Notice the T4 (silver faceplate) and an Equi=Tech balanced power transformer beneath it.  Just below the flag' left corner you will notice a little black box: it's the DeZorel one brick unit.  Also notice the dedicated lines (six total).





Everything's sounding crisp and clear.  Lak has been a good student and let Sean and myself help him with this project.

Doug, I'm glad to know that since you have soo little noise in your electricity swapping that Power Var for a DeZorel, a T4 or an Equi=Tech would not have a significant effect...

[doug s.]

"...Doug, I'm glad to know that since you have soo little noise in your electricity swapping that Power Var for a DeZorel, a T4 or an Equi=Tech would not have a significant effect... "
============
me too, do ya tink i'm made of money???    

seriously, one of the last system tweaks will to be to put my rig on three separate mondo dedicated balanced transformers, one for digital, another for remaining front end, the third for amps.  meanwhile, i will "suffer" w/my present level of noise...    1st priority for me is to get my *last* speakers.  (ya, right! )  hey, this *is* a loudspeaker thread, isn't it?    i'm pretty-much set on the rest of my rig, except the digital source, cuz of the primitive state of digital playback, imo.     when i have my system basics where i want them, then further tweaking, like better rack, better power conditioning, etc, will assume greater importance.

regards,

doug s.

btw, even the (honest) mfr's of the spendy dewices like the dezorels, equi=techs, etc, admit that the benefits of these are in inverse proportion to to how dirty yer power & rf enviroment is.  dirty power = big benefits.  clean power = minimal benefits.

[Psychicanimal]

do ya tink i'm made of money???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2544992284&category=42881&rd=1

btw, even the (honest) mfr's of the spendy dewices like the dezorels, equi=techs, etc, admit that the benefits of these are in inverse proportion to to how dirty yer power & rf enviroment is. dirty power = big benefits. clean power = minimal benefits.

That is true, but there's more to it.  Noise gets amplified in the system, so as one's system becomes more resolving it will be able to better reproduce any noise that gets through the equipment's transformers.  Therefore, even little amounts are magnified.  Lak has found that neither the DeZorel, the T4 nor the Equi=Tech were able to handle the noise load by themselves.  Putting the Xentek Extremes before improved the sound.  That's what we have found out through experience and so has Deano and Sean.  Oh well...neither ewe nor José have listened to me.  At least Lak did and he's got the pictures to show what the real thing looks like!

[doug s.]

"... Oh well...neither ewe nor José have listened to me..."
=========
?!?  yure not telling me anyting i don't awreddy know.  which is why i awreddy have my power conditioners & isolation transformers plugged into isolation transformers.  as i said before, when time & money is right, i will have separate hard-wired transformers for digital, other sources, & power.  the layout of my present house/rooms/crawl space/slab-on-grade precludes a cheap easy fix.  or, it would awreddy be complete!  

let it go, man, there's more to life than stereo!  wife!  kids!  goin' to the outer banks!  motorcycles!  italian cars!  

talk at y'all next week; ciao for now.

regards,

doug s.