[Jon Lane]

A few points of potential interest to Sans and ModWright fans.  I think it's safe to now say that the M1/ModWright alliance is back.  Dan, I hope you don't mind, but I'm too hyped to wait to announce this.

We currently have a moderately-sized shipment of new M1's on the way to us at The Audio Insider.  From there, they travel to Dan as needed in response to demand.

My conversations with past users of this apparently amazing system have been most encouraging and I look forward to getting my own pair shortly.  We're also furnishing Dan with a new pair of M1 test-horses his ongoing development (with our compliments, Dan.)

Other points:  The woofer is an F5, and has a nominal diameter that puts it solidly in the 5.25" family.  It is a Kevlar/cellulose hybrid and easily the best Swans cone midrange I am aware of.  It's essentially the little brother to the F6 used in the classic "Diva" 6.1.

The cabinets are tha same leather-over-MDF with solid side and top/bottom planks.  This cabinet is my personal favorite Swans box.

There you have it.  Let us know if there are any more questions.

[doug s.]

jon, any chance of ever importing the m2?

thanks,

doug s.

[Jon Lane]

jon, any chance of ever importing the m2?

thanks,

doug s.

I can look into this for you.  Virtually all of the older Swans models, if still in manufacture and if preordered, can be imported once again.  Would you be interested in a complete loudspeaker or a kit set?

http://dulcet.com/product/htm/kit.php

[doug s.]

hi jon,

sorry, i made a mistake - it's the m1.2's i'd be interested in.  kit would be better...  

thanks,

doug s.

[Jon Lane]

hi jon,

sorry, i made a mistake - it's the m1.2's i'd be interested in.  kit would be better...  

thanks,

doug s.

I have a few in stock at a real deal.  Email jhlane@theaudioinsider.com for more info.

[Bill Baker]

Swan & ModWright??
  Have I missed something? What will Dan's part be in these speakers? I  built these little jewels in the past (many years ago) into a custom Rosewood cabinet. I found them to be a nice speaker especially with a little tweaking. I am a big fan of smaller speakers and personally run nothing larger than a 5" speaker.
  Just curious as to what Dan will be doing with them.
  Maybe I will have to pick up another pair to try out with one of my RAM Hybrid amps or better yet, my modified Jolida 102B? Guess I better talk to Dan.

[jcoat007]

If I recall, Dan did some work to someone's M1's a while back.  He added some bybees and upgraded some of the crossover parts.  

I think.  

There might have been more to it, but that is all I can remember.  The owner thought it was a huge improvement.

[jcoat007]

http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8888&highlight=swan

Check out this thread.  It has the details.

[Bill Baker]

Gotchya,
  When I was custom building speakers, my interest was mostly in the custom cabinetry.  I also used the AuriCaps and Geortz Foil inductors in the x-over with a choice of quality copper or silver wiring.
  I think I will see what Dan has to say and maybe build another custom pair and have Dan do up the x-over for me as I am very interested in hearing the Cryo treated x-over and bybees.

[Jon Lane]

We are now sold out of M1.2 kits but have two remaining pairs of the premium-finish original M1.2's at Audiogon:

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?spkrmoni&1058579264

[Bill Baker]

HI Jon,
    I justvisited your add on AudioGon and have one question. When I built these speakers, they used the 5" mid/bass driver rather than a 6.5" as you have listed. Have they changed the design in the 1.2 version?

[Jon Lane]

There is a somewhat subtle naming distinction between the two models you're describing.  The "M1" is the smaller design and does indeed use the 5.25" Kevlar/paper cone, while the "M1.2" uses the 6.5" Kevlar/paper cone and the longer 4" planar.  Both are long-term design classics and have not been changed since introduction, save for different cosmetic versions.

The model numbers are very easy to confuse - I know because I've been confusing em for years.  Then there's the M1-2000 (gloss black), the M1.2-2000 (same), the M1pvc (cheaper vinyl cab) and the M1.2pvc (same.)  Not easy to keep em all sorted out.  =o)

[Bill Baker]

Thanks Jon,
   That makes sense now. The model I built was based on the M1 with the 5.25" in a custom cabinet (I purchased the components, not the cabinets). A very nice sounding speaker and my customers were also impressed with this little speaker. I don't know if the other models were even available when I built mine as this was some time ago.
  I spoke with Dan last night about the upgrades and I must admit they sound promising. I am obviously well aware of his work! I wish I still had my pair as I would send him the x-overs for the bybees and Cryo treating.   I think you will be able to have a good following with these speakers especially with the 6" version.

[Psychicanimal]

Dan and I believe that my modded Swans M1 are up there with any $5-6K speakers.  Lak just got a pair and had them sent to Dan for doing the full mods.  So far, the speakers are not the limiting factor in my system.   I just fired up my NHT subs last week with the spare Proton amp I have and using the Marchand X9 Deluxe electronic x-over (modded by Dan also).  The response is nothing short of excellent, with seamless integration and total disappearance of the subs.  I am driving the Swans  with a Forté 4 class A amp (50W) and it is plenty of power in a small room...

I don't think there is a better deal anywhere for people in the market for small and beautiful speakers.   Besides, even without a sub, the modded Swans will go down to 40-45 Hz no sweat.

[doug s.]

hi all,

well, i yust received a pair of swans m1.2's that jon cut me a really good deal on.  leftovers from his where-house - i guess he stumbled across a 3rd pair.  thanks, jon!  

anyway, straight outta the box, i was impressed before i even hooked them up.  looks & heft made me tink these should be at least $2k speakers.  well, i gave them ~10 minutes of pink noise, to set them up in my rig w/marchand x-over & subs.  when tings were balanced, i turned on the ol' tuna.  this is w/my back-up asl wave-8 amps and the x-over set to 100hz.  my normal set-up has a mesa baron, & the x-over will go to 60 or 70hz.  the tiny wave-8's yust can't do low end in my large room.  due to some tube issues i've been having w/special top-plate connector tubes, (they don't seem to wanna stay biased after a couple hundred hours), i'm awaiting another set of regular jj 6L6gc's, before hooking the baron back up.

here's my impressions after an hour's listening to fm, on brand-new unbroken in speakers.  i have detail out the wazoo.  treble shimmer i've never heard before.  better soundstaging.  and even the wave's tendency for glare seems to be mia.   this after yust an hour of jazz & latin on the tuna.  haven't even tried winyl or cd yet.  

break-in & a healthy mesa baron will convince me it's really true.  but, i've never stuck any other speakers in the rig that made me immediately feel that the meret's may finally be relegated to second system or basement status!

the next several weeks should be *really* interesting - danny richie is sending me a pair of diluceo's to audition to make up for the criterions i tried, that had some *issues*.  i really liked the criterions, but i was expecting them to sound like these swans!     they likely do, if the damaged tweet is properly corrected, & now i will see how the larger mtm wersion sounds.  and, i should also be receiving a pair of proac reference 8 signatures soon, which according to proac are better than the 1sc's from the upper bass on up.  more open, better soundstage, more detail.  w/my subwoofer set-up, less bass isn't an issue in my rig.  (i tried the 1sc's in my rig for a week & thought were excellent, if not up to the all-around performance of the merets in my system.)

anyway, these swan m1.2's have no right to sound as good as they do.  i'm not sure what the suggested retail price is, but i tink it's a bit <$1500.  perhaps jon can chime in about this, & whether or not he will in fact be importing them again...

regards,

doug s.

[doug s.]

hi all,

24 hour update on the swan m1.2's.  good news & bad news.  1st the bad news.  well, while the fit & finish is still what i'd consider excellent, having a chance to check these out in daylight vs artificial lighting reveals my m1.2's are the cheaper "pvc" wersion, not the genuine wood edition.     i was wondering a bit about it last nite, as the black portions are a fine pebble-grain finish, not the black lacquer finish i was expecting.  so much for middle-aged eyesite - how embarrassing!     so, i guess they look like nice $1200-$1400 speakers, not $2k speakers.     oh well...

now, the good news.  sonically i'm more convinced these are the real deal.  i played some software i am familiar with, & these things truly are detail champs.  w/o being at all harsh.  soundstaging seems to be improving even more, w/several hours of playing time on them.  i can't wait to get the mesa baron back into the rig!

now, if there's some way i can sand off the winyl & add some real wood veneer...

doug s.

[Jon Lane]

Hi doug s.,

Gregg and I really appreciate all the kind words.  We're not surprised that you find the 1.2 a strong value since the drivers used are literally Swans' best - both the 6.5" Kevlar mid/woofer and the RT2 isodynamic planar tweeter.

I am concerned that you received the correct model, however.  Please PM me and we can chat further.

This may also be a good opportunity to poll the other Swans M1 and M1.2 users and potential users who may want to see those models permanently reissued.  You may have noticed that Swans has worked with us to post an entirely new site (as we promised a couple months ago) and that the M1 and new Tempus kits are featured.  www.swanspeaker.com  Shoot me a PM if you're interested and we'll work out a guaranteed intro deal.

By the way, the new Tempus is a real gas (check out the PDF at Swans' site for info on this European phenom) and promises to be a radical new concept for N. America.  We're really pumped to be part of this new rollout and have 20 prs of kits on the water as I write this, plus news from Swans that a new premium premade cabinet is in the works.  

We're also sending the classic plank-and-leather M1's to Dan Wright at ModWright (thanks Psychicanimal for all of your encouragement and support) and TAI will be featuring the ModWright M1 shortly at The Audio Insider based on demand.

doug s., please do contect me so we can confirm this particular pair of M1.2's.

[doug s.]

well, w/such a promising start using the m1.2's w/my back-up antique sound labs wave-8's, i was really looking forward to firing up the mesa baron, & notching the crossover back down from 100hz to 60hz.  this would likely fix the slight overboosted bass i was getting, which i attributed to running my subs so high.  

but this was not to be - w/the mesa in the chain, tubes burned in for ~24 hours or so, i gave a serious listen.  midbass bump was spoiling the party!     this was the product of the swans, not the vmps subs, as x-over was at 60hz.  the bass bump was actually more pronounced than when i was using the wave-8's, w/100hz x-over.  dint make sense at all.  i questioned the new jj 6L6gc toobs i'd yust gotten.  

serious investigation began. (good thing the wife & kids are outta town a coupla days!   )  1st, back in w/my old tubes into the baron.  these are a known quantity, so i wouldn't doubt their sonic signature.  same thing - overblown midbass.  so, at least my new toobs are ok!     all this was confirmed on a spectrum analyzer, w/pink noise generator.  

i also ran the m1.2's full-range, w/pink noise, to see what i got - sure enuff - big boost at ~100hz.  min of 5db.  more precise isn't known, due to the vaguaries of my pink noise/spectrum analyzer device.  but, suffice it to say, what i was hearing coincided w/the measurements, which was confirmed by a relative who stopped over for a listen.  and, i've never heard or measured this w/any number of other speakers i've tried in my rig.  so, i don't think it's the room.

so, why was i initially so impressed when i 1st hooked up the swans?  back to the wave-8's.  further analysis w/pink noise w/these amps shows they are a bit lean in the midbass.  they are down yust enuff so that the bass bump, while still there, isn't objectionable enuff to spoil the otherwise fine presentation.  and, crossing 'em over at 100 in fact *helps* ameliorate the swans' bump, as my x-over has a wolume pot *at* the chosen x-over frequency, which is in the full-down position in this case.  

and, i still do like the m1.2's better w/the wave-9's, than my meret re's.  but, the re's sound better w/the baron than the swan's do, & better than the swans on the wave's.  go figure...

i guess, the key thing here, is that synergy is crucial.  the swans, it seems, are woiced as a *do-it-all* kinda speaker.  but, in my rig, a dedicated 2-channel audio only set-up, w/subs placed for accuracy, not thunder, these are yust a bit too overdone in the midbass for long-term use chez-sedon.  so much for my initial hope of long-term sonic thrills on the cheap!     perhaps, w/a box or internal x-over re-design, these could be voiced differently?  the drivers themselves, seem to have a *lot* of potential...

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

...are woiced as a *do-it-all* kinda speaker. but, in my rig, a dedicated 2-channel audio only set-up, w/subs placed for accuracy, not thunder, these are yust a bit too overdone in the midbass for long-term use chez-sedon

I never liked that speaker.  It is a full range effort that will compromise in linearity and imaging.  The 4" woofer is much better for midrange accuracy and dispersion.

I also don't see those VMPS Large subs as a good match for mini monitors either.  I'm glad Sean talked me out of them and I got to listen to your setup.  I ended purchasing something more appropriate for my Modwright Swans.

[doug s.]

hi francisco,

it certainly was fun when ya were in town a while back.  re, your comments:

"I never liked that speaker. It is a full range effort that will compromise in linearity and imaging. The 4" woofer is much better for midrange accuracy and dispersion. "
================
imo, the m1.2 certainly *is* woiced as a full-range effort.  definitely compromises in linearity, but the imaging is still excellent.  however, i wouldn't place any blame on the 6.5" woofer vs the 5.5" of the m1.0.  it's how the speaker is *voiced*.  i'm sure that it could be done differently, w/a different x-over network &/or cabinet configuration.  in fact, jon lane & i have been contemplating doing just that.  if only i can conwince him to use mine as a guinea-pig at no cost!    in fact, i am presently enjoying them, crossed over at 100hz, w/the midbass-lean wave8's driving them.  if the m1.2's were more neutral, & had better x-over components, i'm sure the superior dynamics & smoothness of my mesa baron, would *really* make them shine.

"I also don't see those VMPS Large subs as a good match for mini monitors either. I'm glad Sean talked me out of them and I got to listen to your setup. I ended purchasing something more appropriate for my Modwright Swans. "
==========
i remember specifically one comment ya made when listening to my rig: "i can hear the subs, mebbe i will need to place my subs *inside* my monitors, not outside..."  well, it's true - sometimes ya *can* hear the subs.  other times, the low bass sounds like its coming from one channel.  or the other.  at other times, it sounds like it's coming from a spot centered directly between the speakers.  what is happening is the bass sounds like it's coming from wherever the particular recording mix had it placed on the recording.  the soundstaging for the bass (and the rest of the range as well), is *very* software dependent in my system.  many times the soundstage extends beyond the speakers, many times it doesn't.  w/recordings like roger waters' "amused to death", sounds come from the extreme right, left, even behind you.

while i have never had the opportunity to venture to ohio to hear your set-up, i am sure, that for your small listening room, smaller subs are the right choice.  i would never recommend a pair of vmps larger subs to anyone w/o a large listening room.  but the only subs i've ever heard in a big space, that compared to mine, were the mondo towers of the 4-piece infinity irs system, w/six 12" servo-controlled drivers per side...  now, if ya were to try a pair of vmps' latest smaller subs, which at 27h x 14.5w x16.5d, can also double as stands, i tink they might really make a positive impression in your room, w/your system...  

i've tried many different monitors (and full-range speakers as well), in my system;  all blended well, w/no ability to localize the subs - unless the info is like that in the recording.  the only issue i've had is w/these present swan m1.2's, & that's because of the way *they* are woiced, not due to any shortcomings of the subs.  even w/the mesa baron used to power the swans, the system sounds better crossed over at 100 or 125hz, than 50 or 60hz, as the vmps' are much more accurate & linear in this area.  

anyone w/a big space, that appreciates the imaging (and lower-cost!) that monitors are capable of, vs massive full-range speakers, would be well-served by pairing them w/something that gives real high-spl, low-distortion bass output, like the vmps larger subs.  if your space is average-sized, or small, i'd unhesitatingly recommend the vmps original, or smaller subs.  the quantity & quality of the bass cannot be approached at anywhere near the price, imo.

ymmv,

doug s.