[shep]

So I'm wanting to try out another kind of wire on my speakers. Found this site ww.diyaudiostore.com/. Get to talking with Ric. Ric has very strong opinions. I really want to throw this open to brighter minds, with more experience (that means YOU) Ric sells, among other things, a nice wire like the Anticable stuff, only the copper is maybe purer, same enamel coating it would appear. He is adament that they should not be twisted, equally that they are non-directional, he seems to abhor Teflon and finally he insists they should be run individually in the cotton sleave he sells. Ok, so a lot of this goes against what I have heard here.
Why the cotton and is his statement that twisting stresses the copper and defeats it's quality (my inferance) reasonable? Ric if you read this, don't get pissed but you are a bit terse...
This probably bored the lot of you to death but I would really appreciate as many hands-on, ears-on opinions as you can give me.

[shep]

I know I live where the dark matter originates but come on, a little help from the brightest minds of our generation would be greatly appreciated. "yes Martha, the internet even can cross space and time"

[Dan Banquer]

Try these links:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/DIYspeakercables.php

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/interconnects/DIYSpeakerCablesp3.html

There's more on the audioholics web site for speaker cables.
             d.b.

[Occam]

Shep - The ideal geometry for ls cables is often dependant on the specific amplifier. Typically, as Marbles commented, wires are often twisted for increased capacitance, better emi rejection, and lowered inductance. But in the case of some amps, the Nakamichi PA-7, or Llano A50 for example, the higher capacitance of twisted wires (or other geometries) lead to mediocre results as their specific 'bleeding edge' feedback schemes just didn't like the capacitance. Along with anti-cables, the Tara TFA ls cable is an example of LS cables specifically designed with separated legs. So the answer is, it depends, and there is no doctrinaire answer.

[shep]

Thanks (so far...) This is for my t-amp, if that makes a dif. I can get the idea of stressing being undesirable, although so many cables are twisted...No they are not from the freezer. I still can't get my head around the extra cotten shielding/sheathing. And does anyone have knowledge of why Teflon should sound worse than the enamelling? Is this just an opinion or have some basis in fact. I don't care as long as it sounds good! I would imagine that the Teflon is a lot more resistant than enamelling in terms of bending and general wear. I use short runs and there is little or no hi-frequency garbage out here on the edge of the galaxy (mind you I might be wrong about that. Do cell phone relays constitute an audiophile menace?)

[bpape]

Not sure about all this bending thing.  If it's true for the very minor amount of flex it takes for a gentle twisting, then what is that 180 degree bend going to do to go down from the amp over to the speaker, then back up again?  If it's the case then you'd almost have to have them cyro'd and shipped in the shape you're going to use them.    I'm not buying it - at least not for that reason.

Bryan

[PSP]

I offer the following observations and comments:

• folks claim that soft, annealed wire sounds better than unannealed wire.
• working metal (bending, or other deformations) is known to introduce dislocations in the metal grain and/or crystalline structure (for example, see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_hardening )
• work hardening can be largely reversed by annealing, in which the metal is heated close to its melting point under a protective atmosphere (inert gases, N2, or sometimes in a reducing atmopsphere like hydrogen).  This increased temperature increases metal atom mobility and allows each atom a better opportunity to find a lower energy, more perfect alignment with the local crystal planes, and so the metal crystal dislocations are "annealed out".  Work hardened metals (which feel stiff in your fingers) can feel soft again after annealing.  I know because I've done it.
• you can feel work hardening yourself by rapidly bending a metal coathanger back and forth for a few minutes.  It will eventually get stiff, then break as you bend it.
• regarding audio wires, if you believe that metal structure influences sound, then you probably want annealed wire, and you should bend the wire slowly and only to the degree necessary to get things hooked up, then leave it alone.
• I have no idea what cryo treatments do, nor do I have a clue about the potential interplay between annealing a wire and then subjecting it to cryo treatment.

Bottom line, there is a physical basis for minimizing the amount of physical trauma that you expose your wires to.  Whether it is audible is open to debate and experiment.  Someday, in the far future when I am bored beyond words, I might see if there really is a sonic difference between soft and severely work-hardened wire. 

Peter

[tomjtx]

I 1st tried out the Anti's untwisted. They sounded great(better than my 3,000 XLO SIGS) Way better.

Then I twisted them, partially for visual and handling reasons.
I thought they sounded a bit better twisted but it was subtle enough that I recognize it could be delusion They DID NOT sound worse.

Bottom line, I think the Anti's are great either way and a real bargain.
Now, I just relax and enjoy the music and I don't care if some guy thinks I need untwisted and cotton.

I DO need cotton and I firmly believe it improves the sound: cotton schwabs to clean my ears before listening..............now there's a good use for cotton:-)

[shep]

" What did I tell you Martha? There IS life out there!"
 So thus far we can suspend disbelief about twisting as dilatorious.
                     Cotton doesn't ring any bells.
                     Annealing (as described on that diy site) makes good audio sense
                     Anbody for Teflon verses Enamelling?
Over

[robert1325]

Interesting thread,     

I'm very happy with my anti-cables , but like the look of endler's cables and the prices are very doable to :

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4c5pt/id6.html

Robert