[Loftprojection]

As some of you have read, I just completed my AV/3 kit and I'm pretty happy.  In my "review", I was even bragging that there was no need for a sub.  Well, turns out that I still believe my statement but I'm curious to read some feedback from owners who have added a sub to their AV/3 kits.

What was the improvement vs no sub?  Does it integrate well with the AV/3 since they already go down further then typical monitor speakers (what xover frequency do you cut the sub)?  Is it really worth it for music or mostly for movies?  Did you use the SW-12a sub kit or another sub?  Many thanks.

[Blaine_M]

I have a sub with my AV/3.  I'm not sure what to tell you.  I think depending on the music it may be nice to have  sub running.  My reciever crosses the sub over at 80hz when it is turned on, I wish I had one that I could set to 60 because I think that would be perfect for these speakers.  I usually just leave the sub on and let it handle below 80hz and the AV/3 above.  But, I have some music I'll turn it off for, my Marantz has a 'SOURCE DIRECT'  mode which bypasses the sub and sends full signal to the mains...I use that on some music.  The AV/3 can play fairly low very well, but for the most part a real good sub can do the low stuff even better, that's what they are designed for. 

Probably not a good answer to your question....kind of rambled. 

Oh, I have built one of the SW12A sub kits for a friend....it was nice, but in my personal opinion the SVS I have has just as nice of a sound and capable of more output for the movie watching I do.  If I were only listening to music I think I'd like to have a dual SW12 possibly, I think that would be very nice for music in a larger room.  If you have a small room the single might be enough....again, this is for music, not movies. 

[wendell]

I have the a/v 3 in my HT and 2 of the SW12a and it rocks.  a single SVS may does sound boomier than a single SW12a.   But with 2 of the SW12A you can't lose, matter of fact I had to turned it down a little, it blends really nice with the AV/3 and sounds alot cleaner than the SVS.  The Sub does fill in the lower octaves but I was happy without the sub until I got my HT done and put the AV3 for my mains.  My HT consist of the AV package that Danny offers, a great value. 

[Blaine_M]

My SVS sub is not boomy!  It has way more output.  Personally if it were in a home theater environment by the time you spend the time and effort to build a dual sub I'd rather go with an SVS from the plus lineup....just my opinion and I've heard both the SW12 and several different SVS models.  I'd look at SVS or HSU for a sub in a movie room if you really want impact then they are the way to go... like I said, for music I'd look at the SW12, or SVS's new sealed sub. 

[wendell]

not to offend anybody, but I used a SVS 20-39pc+ and yes its great for HT but for music it was boomy for my taste.  I use to have an Adire Alignment Tempest also and that bettered the SVS but again alot of output but boomy compared to Gr sub.  Maybe boomy is wrong word how about not musical.  Don't get me wrong the SVS is a great sub but I just think the Gr sub is more musical and sounds cleaner, and running two of them in my room is way too much output than I need but its good to know that if I ever wanted to turn it up I can. And if you DIY it's even a better value   But if you want HT only and want that shake the house down factor any of these subs will do in this order,

1 GR Sub (2)

2 AA Tempest 217L

3 SVS 20-39pc+

4 GR Sub (1)

[Loftprojection]

Hey thanks for the feedback guys.  Just to clear things up a bit, my main concern is music not movies.  I do listen to a lot of movies but I don't care that much for sound quality in movies and I certainly don't care for big earthquake like bass in movies because I don't want to annoy my neighbors.  For music however, I want to have the best sound quality I can get for my small wallet and I don't listen to music very loud and my room is not that big.  So basically my objective is just to get all the octave reproduced for ultimate sound quality when I listen to music. I feel like there is probably some tiny part of some songs that I don't get now and I would probably get if I had a sub!     I'm also talking over my head right now because I've never even owned any speakers that went below 40Hz so I'm not even sure if some of my music has anything below that!   

From the feedback up to now it seems like the sw12a is a good musical complement to the av3!

Thanks much, keep the comments coming!

Ho, and do you think it would be possible to position it between the center and one of the main or is that really poor positioning for a sub?  Here is a picture http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=729&pos=3

[wendell]

Great job on the speakers, did you build them yourself?    My setup is similar to yours my 2 subs are placed on each side of center in between the mains.... It will change when I get the chance and build a single enclosure for both subs under center to make my wife happy.

[Blaine_M]

wendell....how long ago was it since you had the SVS?  They have released several new drivers over the last couple years. (by the way SVS has a new sealed sub now that I've heard does very well with music...but I have't actually listened to it personally).  Side by side when I had a 10 inch SVS compared to the SW12 we built...there was very little difference between the two, other than the SVS would go deeper.  Still, I'd have to agree, for music I'd go with the SW12....for movies it's no contest. 

Loft...how big is that room?  It looks large...you might consider a dual...you can build the box just as Danny has on his web site, but plan it as though there were two boxes stacked right on top of each other....it will be heavy, but in a large room might be your best option...and I believe you can get by using one plate amp..the woofers are 8 ohm, so wire it right and you'll have a 4 ohm sub...someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Danny said that was the way to go back when I was considering building the dual version.  Also on your possitioning you may have to try differnent spots in your room once you get the sub....some people talk about placing it 1/3rd of the way in on a wall, bass heads like them in the corner, but they tend to be boomy if you do that.  Might want to consider building some bass traps for the corners I built some and was limited by WAF on size, if you can you might want to build them all the way up the the ceiling.  I'll try and put in a pic...you'll see my sub in the corner...not where I'd like to have it, but I'm very limited on space..it is out from the wall a ways...

[wendell]

Blaine, 2.5 yrs ago.  I first used the SVS and thought it as great but on some movies the driver would bottom out, and then I built the Tempest and that thing just rocked no bottoming out.  I gave my tempest away when I built my new HT a little over a year ago and wanted a full GR system. Actually I was reluctant to build the GR subs but Danny assured me that 2 of his subs would not disappoint and he was right!   And once I heard the GR subs I fell in love with its accuracy and preferred it over the BOOM, BOOM bass lines, plus I use my HT for music listening as well.

SVS is great  but if you DIY, you might as well DO IT YOURSELF

[Loftprojection]

Hi Blaine, my room "looks" bigger than it is!    The painted screen you see between the two AV3 is a 106" 16:9 ratio equivalent and there is only about one feet besides the speakers before you hit the side walls. I'm sitting only 10 feet away from the speakers and there is about 4 feet behind me.  I think the room size is probably something like 12x15 or so.  It is in the roof of the house so the cealing has a slope to it, you can kind of see it a bit in this picture:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=729&pos=0

Currently I have no room treatment at all and I know I need to add some.  I'm still working on WAF for that!    What I'll do is slowly and discretely build something like you in my garage, two round bass trap with a rectangle pannel on it's side, then when she is not there I'll install it and wait for her to discover it before actually talking about it.  I think I'll get away with it once they are built and installed!  The biggest challenge will be to find material in a color that matches the walls as close as possible so she doesn't see it too much!

I'll certainly be plenty happy with one sub, as I said, 99% of the time I listen to music at quite low volume and the same goes for movies.  I guess I'll start by installing it between the center and one of the main, I certainly don't want any "corner boom boom"!

[Loftprojection]

Great job on the speakers, did you build them yourself?    My setup is similar to yours my 2 subs are placed on each side of center in between the mains.... It will change when I get the chance and build a single enclosure for both subs under center to make my wife happy.

  Yes I did, first time I ever build something, took me a year!    WAF is the biggest audio challenge! 

[Danny Richie]

The most important thing you can do to that room is to add a bunch of room treatment.

For your application I would find some nice looking and heavy material for drapes and cover the entire front wall with it. In the corners I would cut them diagonally running a 45 degree angle across the corner so that the drapes are fixed across that area. This will make it real easy to hide absorbing material behind it.

You could really use something across the floor under the screen too.

This stuff below might help.

Room treatment links:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kidder/Audio/Room/PANEL/Panels.htm

http://pat.home.mchsi.com/SAP.html

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/a.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/RCcars/acoustic_panels.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/RCcars/acoustic_panels.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~audio-worx/page2DIYpanels.html

[Loftprojection]

Hey thanks Danny for all those links.  I'm convinced now, I need to do some room treatment.  I like those Knauf pannels, a very quick solution to build!

[Blaine_M]

Loft,

I still think you'll want to do a dual SW12....you can put them all in the same box.  That is still a good size cubic foot area for a sub to fill.  Cost increase is minimal because you can run the pair with one plate amp. 

Wendell,

I think the plus series drivers have been through 2 revisions since then, at least one anyway.  They are a lot better now.  I wish I could hear the new sealed sub they have because I think that one would sound very tight....but I don't know anyone who has one or who will be getting one.  I've always heard some people say the HSU subs are great with music...but I've never heard one.  The 10 inch SVS sub is an excellent sub for music I think...was the first SVS I owned and out of the last 3 I've listened to in my house (Including a single SW12), it was best with the music.