[BMU (Bryston Maggie User)]

Just wondering if anyone is using a PC to stream losslessly compressed (FLAC) digital audio to a Squeezebox connected to a Bryston pre (+/- DAC) or pre/pro.

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html

There is apparently some benefit to using a PC to stream digital audio - less jitter.  Comments?

[square]

I am using a squeezebox into the SP2 via digital inputs. Sound is amazing. Requires some effort to convert CDs to flac, set up enough storage, back everything up, set up wireless, ..... but when done, you will question the need to buy a high end CD player. Have also digitized DVD concerts using "DVD Audio Extractor" software. All well worth the effort.

[NewBuyer]

I have been thinking lately, that using an SB3 to send digital to a B100DA SST would be an outstanding combination, and would have the nice minimalist aspect too.

In fact the more I keep thinking about this, the more I'm interested in buying a B100DA SST unit for such a setup...

[muski]

It's absolutely fantastic.  I have had an SB2 & SB3 plugged into the digital inputs of a BP25DA -> 4B SST -> Watt Puppy 7s. Once I had my CD collection digitized, I also put my CD transport away.  I concur with square's comments on the effort to set everything up, but well worth it in the end.  Using the Exact Audio Copy (EAC) software to get bit-perfect FLAC files is essential (read the various setup guides carefully, only use secure mode and be sure to use the AccurateRip plug-in).

You may also want to have a look at Slimdevice's high-end player, the Transporter.  I am waiting to plug it into my Bryston system as soon as I move into my new house, but I can tell you that from listening to the Transporter through my Headroom Max amp & AKG 701s, the quality of both the digital and analog outputs is noticeably improved over the SB3.  Many people on the Slimdevices forums are saying that the Transporter DAC is one of the best they have heard.  I am a huge fan of the wonderful-sounding Bryston DAC, so I look forward to doing a side-by-side comparison of the two as soon as my system is set up.

[desertrat58]

My new Squeezebox 3 (SB3) has its analog outs connected to my Bryston BP25MC pre. Let me say that the concept of computer audio streamed with or without wires is an absolute revelation. In fact, sigh, I believe Bryston is missing the boat by even bothering with a CD player (although the latest MusicDirect catalog has 18 CD/uni players with prices over $2K US - somebody is buying them). On the other hand, based on my SB3 trials, I can't wait for a Bryson stand-alone DAC. As for the computer audio concept, see online forums at Head-Fi (headphone freaks), Audio Asylum, here at AudioCircle's Square Circle forum and SlimDevices own forum.

I run my BP25MC into M&K active pro studio monitors and subwoofer (see the M&K Sound website). Awesome high end set-up, very revealing sound. The SB3 analog outs sound a bit rolled-off in my system, missing the shimmer heard from cymbals and the proper bite of a saxophone, but it basically sounds fine (hey, it costs $300 US). I am trying to decide whether to trade in my SB3 for a SlimDevices Transporter (their $2K US audiophile version), or to use the digital outs of the SB3 to feed an outboard DAC.

For a good laugh, go to the SlimDevices website to their community forum. I recently made a post in their "audiophile" forum, with this title: Need to brighten sound of new SB3 --> Transporter or DAC? I am desertrat58 on their forum as well. For a complete listing of my system go to AudioAsylum and see activeM&Kman and his inmate system.

Bottom line, the SB3 set up easily and worked right out of the box. The interface for selecting and playing your music is very easy to set up and use. The computer does not have to be in your listening room, and the remote control is all you need. An overall Class A product design, although you probably will want to explore outboard DACs (or their Transporter model) running with Bryston gear. I have several pro audio DACs in mind in the $1K US range, such as the Benchmark and Lavry, and at this point might wait and see what Bryston does with an outboard DAC. If you have a BP26DA, by all means at least try out an SB3. They have a 30 day trial policy. The Transporter model has more refined digital out features than the SB3 to go along with its better DAC chip for analog outs as another option.

I do note with the Bryston pre, that the SB3 analog out does let you use the entire turn of the BP25MC volume knob with my system. Digital recordings that are not mastered "too hot" let you crank the volume knob way over to the right, for that proper night club concert volume. I know Bryston designs their pres to let you use the entire rotation of the volume knob. I turn the volume knob a long way around with my vinyl rig as well. Yes, I like it loud.

My current Bryston wish is for them to make an outboard DAC that I can use with my BP25MC and MPS-1 power supply.

[niels]

I am not using the Bryston pre with the Squeezebox, but my Bryston B100-DA SST. That is, soon anyway. I have ordered the DAC for the amp, and a Stereovox XV2 digital cable to go in between the B100-DA and SB3.
I have used the SB3 for 4 months now , and I am pretty pleased. Its astonishing the problems you can encounter with this device, look at the SlimSevices forum...., but in general the product is ingenious and a revelation.
The sound from the analogue outputs is slightly rolled off compared to my Philips dvd 963SA with XO3 clock upgrade.
I am really looking forward to the Bryston DAC, it better perform or I will be dissapointed, have seen some magazines rave about it.

[James Tanner]

Larry Greenhill's review of the B100 DAC also comments on the Squeezebox.
http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/07/BrystonCX.pdf

james

[techguy]

I don't use the Slim Devices box, but use something similar from Empirical Audio (there is a thread online here on AudioCircle).  I store all my music on pc using Windows Media Audio Lossless and feed to my Bryston SP2 using Empirical's Turbo2 with coax digital output with Superclock chip.  This works amazingly well and my pc is as good as any high-end transport I've heard as a result.  With this arrangement you can use any player of your choice as the solution behaves as any sound card would.  Using normal pc sound cards, even the professional ones still has far too much jitter.  This arrangement allows me to use the pc as a DVD player as well feeding the Bryston SP2.

D. 

[tomjtx]

It's absolutely fantastic.  I have had an SB2 & SB3 plugged into the digital inputs of a BP25DA -> 4B SST -> Watt Puppy 7s. Once I had my CD collection digitized, I also put my CD transport away.  I concur with square's comments on the effort to set everything up, but well worth it in the end.  Using the Exact Audio Copy (EAC) software to get bit-perfect FLAC files is essential (read the various setup guides carefully, only use secure mode and be sure to use the AccurateRip plug-in).

You may also want to have a look at Slimdevice's high-end player, the Transporter.  I am waiting to plug it into my Bryston system as soon as I move into my new house, but I can tell you that from listening to the Transporter through my Headroom Max amp & AKG 701s, the quality of both the digital and analog outputs is noticeably improved over the SB3.  Many people on the Slimdevices forums are saying that the Transporter DAC is one of the best they have heard.  I am a huge fan of the wonderful-sounding Bryston DAC, so I look forward to doing a side-by-side comparison of the two as soon as my system is set up.

Did you ever get your transporter and what do you think of it? Did you try the XLR outs?

[BMU (Bryston Maggie User)]

I too started experimenting with a PC based source.

Took my my old P3-533Mhz and put it behind the TV with the digital audio out run into the SP1.7.  I have some of music in FLAC and use foobar2K as my player.  I either use a wireless keyboard/mouse and the TV to control the old PC or I use remote access from a laptop via my home network.  I have been surpirisingly impressed with the PC's ability to serve as a "digital transport / jukebox" in this simple experiment.  I actually find myself NOT using my DVD player that often for CD's and am no longer interested in buying a high-end CD player / transport.

We'll be moving soon and I will be considering getting a newer "media centre" PC to put behind the AV system for both DVD, video, and of course digital music.

Personally, I think PC based digital audio is here now and can think of no better way of using the DAC in the SP1.7.  If the DAC in SP2 upgrade is that much better then I'll have to think about that....  =)

PC based (hi-def) video is the way of the future and of course a separate discussion.

[Sasha]

There should be benefits in using a PC to stream digital audio, however it depends on implementation.
I had SB3, stock version with oversized linear regulated power supply instead of stock one, and was going digital out of SB3 (both coax and optical) into an external DAC.
It was compared to CD player as transport (Rotel RCD 1072).
The analog out of SB3 is not good at all, way below mid-fi performance of mentioned CD player.
The digital out of SB3 is better, but still not equal to CD transport.
SB3 optical is extremely jittery, easily heard.
Coax is better but below performance of Rotel CD player going into the same DAC. The difference was in clarity, tonality and imaging, CD player transport threw larger soundstage with better separation of instruments and better tonality.
Consequently I sold SB3.
I do not believe SB3 is in the same league as discussed gear (Bryston pre-amps/amps), so you are compromising performance of your downstream components IMO.
I do want to set up PC as a transport, but so far I have not come across something that will provide satisfactory performance.
I am hoping that maybe Benchmark DAC-1 USB will be proper way, considering that it converts USB into I2S (no SPDIF in between), that it is capable of getting bit accurate 24/96 over USB, and that its ASRC implementation appears to have good ability to cope with jitter without negative impact of ASRC (all based on reviews).
I am yet to audition it.
But there is now Bryston DAC in working, with all the inputs as DAC-1 (including USB), and considering it has discrete analog section, I think I will not make any purchase till it comes out.

[desertrat58]

Finally got my Transporter. It sounds fantastic. I use the balanced outs to the balanced inputs on my BP25MC. I used some cheap single-ended interconnects for a few days, and that sounded great too. I will do an official A/B soon.

I now can understand a lot of rock and roll vocals. For the first time in my life. The sound is not bright or edgy at all. No digititis whatsoever. Very clean sound, from the lows to the highs.

These SlimDevices/Logitech toys are great if you do not want a PC in the living room. These guys really do care about sound quality. Even the Squeezebox I tried was really nice. The remote control seems simplistic, but the interface actually works just fine at the audio system end. The computer interface, SlimServer, is a bit primitive, but serves its function. If you want to use a Bryston DAC, the Squeezebox's SPDIF digital outs should be fine. If you go to the SlimDevices forums, you can see discussions on how they've kept jitter low in their SPDIF implementation, but I'm no expert.

The SlimDevices designs serve multiple functions. With your PC in another room, the combo is: a music jukebox; an internet radio tuner (PC does not have to be powered on); a house-wide music distribution network (music in many rooms); and the Transporter includes pro-level inputs to make further use of its world class DAC.

My BP25MC and downstream M&K (R.I.P.) active studio monitors really do love the high end Transporter, however. Best digital I've had a chance to hear (not a huge sampling, admittedly). I auditioned a Squeezebox first, but realized my system needed something more high end. I thought about waiting for the Bryston DAC to use with the Squeezebox, but now, I have to admit, I'm very glad I bought the Transporter. It's an elegant, one box solution for my current needs.

I dunno, Bryston. A CD player? I'll never buy a pricey one again. Although, good luck with it. Nice to see they're all pre-sold already. The MusicDirect catalog indicates people still buy lots of them, with 12 no-DVD players listed at $2K and above. Makes the Transporter seem like a steal at $2K.

[BMU (Bryston Maggie User)]

Sasha, desertrat58:

Thanks for sharing all your experience and input.


I do not doubt that there are multiple top flight, high-end single disc digital solutions out there that are far superior to my experiment with an aging PC.

However, the concept of an accessible digital solution now exists with inexpensive computer storage now widely available.  As noted, there are some bonus convenience factors for those adopting PC based audio.

There are already some high-end manufacturers like McIntosh are trying to capitalize on this concept with music servers etc.  Some of the retailers are already using the Mc server  as their source in mega-buck demo rooms.


I admit that my PC set-up is not quite befitting of my remaining gear.  It's just a temporary solution for me until a "Squeezebox 4" or "Transporter Lite" (ie without the DAC; just an audiophile grade digital out) or as mentioned a USB option comes along to pass digital audio from my PC to the Bryston DAC.

[niels]

Sasha :Just get one of these, and keep experimenting : http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/1005/aachapter72.htm
BMU : continue playing music, enjoy it !  I will never buy a stand alone cd player again, what a dinosaur technology that is....
Music servers come also a bit cheaper : http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article.asp?sp=&v=1&uan=536, and many more will come now, Denon has a small neat one out also, perfect for the bedroom....

Besides, if I remember correctly it was Larry Greenhill who in the Bryston B100-DA review said he could detect no difference between the digital outputs of the Krell (KRC-28) playing the cd or the digital out of the Squeezebox 3 playing the Lossless file.....

[muski]

/quote]

Did you ever get your transporter and what do you think of it? Did you try the XLR outs?
[/quote]

tomjtx --

I did, and I have finally done some side-by-side listening of my SB3/Bryston BP25DA and the analog stage of the Transporter DAC (ie. XLR out).  I've compared them through both my speakers (4B-SST/Watt Puppy 7s) and my headphone rig (Headroom Max Balanced amp & balanced AKG701s).

In short, they are both wonderful -- both very natural with lots of detail.  About the only difference I could hear was a slightly wider soundstage coming from the Transporter's DAC.  This was somewhat evident through headphones, but quite noticeable through my speakers.

Which way to go is a very tough call.  I don't think you could go far wrong either way.

muski

[muski]

P.S. For anyone who is running Slimserver, I recommend experimenting with the digital room correction Inguz plugin for Slimserver (see www.inguzaudio.com and also search inguz on the slimdevices forums).  It's a little bit fiddly to get set up and working, but is an amazing piece of software.  For measuring, I used an old analog Radio Shack SPL right into my laptop's line in, and the results were pretty astonishing.

My new living room is an acoustic disaster -- concrete floors, lots of windows and significant WAF constraints to boot.  When I set up my Bryston/WP7s a few weeks ago it sounded horrible -- poor imaging, poor middle bass and general muddiness.  It gave new meaning to 'hearing the room'.

The difference with the Inguz plugin was stunning -- significant clarity, imaging and soundstage improvements.  (I know it's such a cliche, but even my wife heard it!).

Yes, one day I'll have a perfect listening room (and move my speakers away from the walls), but until then this is the way to go.

[niels]

Yes, have been wondering about this, I was just a bit put off for two reasons : Some say it demands huge processor power from the computer, and I thought I needed a Beringer microphone with an M-Audio interface along with a software program to do the adjustments....
I have an analogue Radio Shack already, and the correction values to use with this....
My computer is a HP, AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 994 MHz, 512 RAM, nothing fancy, pretty plain. When SlimServer is scanning, and the computer starts up the processor runs close to 100 %.

[BMU (Bryston Maggie User)]

/quote]

Did you ever get your transporter and what do you think of it? Did you try the XLR outs?

tomjtx --

I did, and I have finally done some side-by-side listening of my SB3/Bryston BP25DA and the analog stage of the Transporter DAC (ie. XLR out).  I've compared them through both my speakers (4B-SST/Watt Puppy 7s) and my headphone rig (Headroom Max Balanced amp & balanced AKG701s).

In short, they are both wonderful -- both very natural with lots of detail.  About the only difference I could hear was a slightly wider soundstage coming from the Transporter's DAC.  This was somewhat evident through headphones, but quite noticeable through my speakers.

Which way to go is a very tough call.  I don't think you could go far wrong either way.

muski
[/quote]

Muski

Did you have a chance to compare SB3 Coaxial digital out to BP25DA vs. Transporter Coaxial digital out to BP25DA?  Put another way - can you hear an improvement with the Transporter's lower jitter rated coaxial digital out vs. the SB3's feeding the Bryston DAC?

Thanks

[niels]

Just throw in Larry Greenhills comments on his setup during the review Bryston B100-DA SST in Stereophile.
http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/07/BrystonCX.pdf


After burning in the B100-DA SST by
having it drive my Quad ESL-989s, I
began feeding its DAC digital signals
from my Krell KRC-28 CD player and
the Slim Devices Squeezebox, which
let me compare CD and wireless
sources. Listening to “Too Rich for My
Blood,” from Patricia Barber’s Café
Blue (CD, Premonition/Blue Note 5
21810 2), I could detect no difference
between the digital outputs of the Krell
playing the CD and the Squeezebox
playing the losslessly compressed file of
the same track through the B100-DA’s
internal DAC—but both digital sources
were decidedly better than the SB’s
internal DAC feeding an analog signal
to the B100-DA. For the bulk of my
listening, I listened only to streaming
digital files fed to the B100-DA.
Through its own internal DAC, the
B100-DA’s bass response reminded me
strongly of the Bryston 3B-ST’s.