Audiophile Challenge: Best $3000 Setup

TomS · « **Reply #20 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 07:00 pm »

Using the modded SB analog out eliminates a cable to the dac, extra power cord, etc. Simple is good here and saves money without sacrificing much if anything until you spend a LOT more money on DAC cables, etc.

I saw others recommended the av123 setups. I think you can also get the Onix SP3 integrated, Stratus Mini's on a special deal (<$2k?). Then add SB, cables, room treatments and you're good to go with an awesome setup.

This is fun spending other people's money

Tom

tomjtx · « **Reply #21 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 07:00 pm »

If you ever want your computer in another room because of it's noise or conveneience then the SB is the way to go.
Some believe you will get better SQ not using the computer interface.

jr314 · « **Reply #22 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 08:00 pm »

Can you elaborate on what you mean by better SQ through not using the computer interface? Also, is the main idea here to run the analog out from the SB directly to the speakers? Would I get better sound quality through running a digital out (if so, directly to what device?)
thanks
jr314

fredgarvin · « **Reply #23 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 08:17 pm »

I'd day the best Audicircle products for your budget are: IRD Purist pre, $670?, Odyssey Khartago amp, $750, VMPS 626jr. $975. Add on yer SB and go.

F-100 · « **Reply #24 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: TomS on 5 Jan 2007, 07:00 pm

I think you can also get the Onix SP3 integrated, Stratus Mini's on a special deal (<$2k?)

I was going to recommend this combo but I believe this special deal is over.

TomS · « **Reply #25 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 08:50 pm »

If the deal's still there at AV123 that's an insanely good value

If in doubt I'd be calling Sean pronto to see if they'd bend a little.

lazydays · « **Reply #26 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 09:34 pm »

Hi,
Red all the post, and thought all were most interesting. The squeeze box thing is new to me, and will always be on the outside looking in with me. Don't like internet music for one.
When you spoke of the room size I thought, "hey this room is similar to my bedroom." My bedroom is 17.5' x 11' with a 12' ceiling. My system upstairs isn't real fancey or anything but sounds nice.
I use ASL Wave Eights being driven by a Conrad Johnson PV10AL linestage. Believe me it's all the sound this room needs. My speakers are Soliloquy 5.0's on Skyline stands. Have about $1300 invested in it. Cables are used Synergistics Alphas, and CAT5's for the speakers. For source I use a good old Cal Delta and a "half nelson" MSB unit. Now the amps are not made anylonger, but you can pick up the 22 watt ones on the cheap. The preamp is up in the air, but see used Quicksilvers all the time for $550 (a pair of mid monos sold on Ebay the otherday for $650. For speakers I'd look for a nice pair of Meadowlark Kestrels (see them all the time for less than $700). For a source, I'd buy a used Jolida CD100A, and then pick up a new Music Hall #5 turntable and a Bendini phono stage. If you shop around you've just spent $3K, and this little system will sound wonderfull. 25 watts will drive those Kestrels wild, and the Jolida cd player has a great reputation (been playing one for fives years without the slightest glitch).
Here's another way to go:
Odyssey Kartago amp $750
Odyssey Candela preamp $1000
Meadowlark kestrel Hotrods $700 used
Marantz 8260 used $500
or better yet get a Music Hall #7 and a Bellari VP 129 phono preamp.
this leaves you enough money to do some serious cable shopping. (this is what I'd with $3K)
gary

Marbles · « **Reply #27 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 09:54 pm »

Gary, the SB does more than play internet audio. They will play the CD's you burn to your hard drive. PC's as transports are better (sounding) in theory than optical based systems. They are also more convienent. You might want to do a bit more research on PC based systems like the Squeezebox, and the modifiactions done to them by Bolder and Red Wine as well as products from Empirical Audio.

lazydays · « **Reply #28 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: Marbles on 5 Jan 2007, 09:54 pm

Gary, the SB does more than play internet audio. They will play the CD's you burn to your hard drive. PC's as transports are better (sounding) in theory than optical based systems. They are also more convienent. You might want to do a bit more research on PC based systems like the Squeezebox, and the modifiactions done to them by Bolder and Red Wine as well as products from Empirical Audio.

well that sounds logical, but I've never been in love with digital anything. Yet there's one flaw with all this; you can't play true sacd or dvd-a sound thru a PC. The speakers I mentioned are just examples, and I'm sure the VPMS speakers sound great (always wanted to hear them myself). The Candela preamp is special. I have one of the first production ones built, and I'll tell that you gotta spend a lot of money to get a better sound (serious chunk of beer money). The mid monos from Quicksilver are nice, and their horn monos might be even better with the right speaker behind them. I broke my Candela in driving a 40 watt tube amp, and actually hated to take it out of my system.
But I had this pair of mono blocs just itching to play. If it was my money I'd get the Candela, a good pair of mono blocks, and a Music hall #7 / Bellari turntable and then go speaker shopping on the used market. Think once he got the TT, he'd be hooked for life.
gary

Occam · « **Reply #29 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 12:35 am »

Quote from: chadh on 6 Jan 2007, 12:17 am

...
For $300, I don't know that you can find a USB DAC that is better than the SB's DAC. The SB frees you from sitting in front of the PC, as it is controlable by remote, with a display on the front of the unit. And perhaps most importantly, the SB has a track record for being readily modifiable. Certainly, all sorts of soundcards and USB DACs are modifiable. But for top of the line mods, these seem to get expensive. I think the biggest reason the SB has developed such a huge following around here is that people have found modified SBs to offer the best digital sound they've heard for an outlay in the $1500 range. I don't know if anything else looks that attractive. Maybe the Altman Attraction DAC? But going the SB route gives you the option of upgrading slowly, and this might be particularly valuable while you're on a budget.....

Musicland MD-10 with
* USB, Toslink, BNC and Coaxial input
* Independent linear output volume and headphone output volume control

no remote control, but it will STOMP a stock SB3

totoro · « **Reply #30 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 01:06 am »

Quote from: Occam on 6 Jan 2007, 12:35 am

Quote from: chadh on 6 Jan 2007, 12:17 am
...
For $300, I don't know that you can find a USB DAC that is better than the SB's DAC. The SB frees you from sitting in front of the PC, as it is controlable by remote, with a display on the front of the unit. And perhaps most importantly, the SB has a track record for being readily modifiable. Certainly, all sorts of soundcards and USB DACs are modifiable. But for top of the line mods, these seem to get expensive. I think the biggest reason the SB has developed such a huge following around here is that people have found modified SBs to offer the best digital sound they've heard for an outlay in the $1500 range. I don't know if anything else looks that attractive. Maybe the Altman Attraction DAC? But going the SB route gives you the option of upgrading slowly, and this might be particularly valuable while you're on a budget.....

Musicland MD-10 with
* USB, Toslink, BNC and Coaxial input
* Independent linear output volume and headphone output volume control

no remote control, but it will STOMP a stock SB3

Have you actually heard this one? There's been a lot of buzz about it, but I haven't actually seen anyone report on the sound first-hand. It sounds like it would be pretty good, and I would be interested in one for myself. You seem pretty knowledgable, so I'd really love to hear your experience, if you've heard it.

ps. I think the brand name is actually musiland.

pps. this post is _not_ meant to be snotty. I _really_ want to hear your opinion

totoro · « **Reply #31 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 01:16 am »

Oops, I meant to modify the last one, and I quoted it. Sorryt

TomS · « **Reply #32 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 01:22 am »

http://www.pacificvalve.us/MusilandMD10.html

Occam · « **Reply #33 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 07:32 pm »

Totoro,

My comment on the Musiland -
http://ifiaudio.com/md10.html
was based solely on the comments over on headfi by a specific poster, Sean H -
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2520300&highlight=musiland+zhaolu#post2520300
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2505536&highlight=musiland+zhaolu#post2505536
I rarely take anyone's (especially real Reviewers) evaluations of any component on face value. The exception is when I've been able to callibrate their opinions against my own. I've followed Sean's posts on his mods to the Zhaolu DAC. These have roughly paralleled the same mods I've done on my own Zhaolu. When I've posted over on headfi about Zhaolu I've tried to not be specific about what I believe the mods will accomplish, and have generally described them as 'mo betta'. Sean's comments on exactly what the OPA2107 and the LM4562 do, have consistently been in agreement with my own observations, so his comments about the Musiland's are, to my subjective sensibilities, reasonable.

Beyond that, from my perspective, the stock SB is a rather pedestrian dac, even with an upgraded ps, although in that same configuration, it is a very, very good transport. So when someone opines that you can't get a better usb dac for $300, I thought of the Musiland MD-10 which supports RCA and BNC coax, toslink, as well as usb.

ctviggen · « **Reply #34 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 07:44 pm »

In terms of DACs, I have a modified (Bolder Cable) SB2. I have both analog and digital mods. Here is my opinion, from best (1) to worst (4) in my system:

1) SB2 DAC + modded analog output
2) SB2 modded digital out to Ack Dack 2.0
3) Shengya CDP
4) Proceed PMDT (transport) to Proceed AVP (as DAC)

I haven't tried the Proceed PMDT to Ack Dac 2.0 versus #1. If after the latter test, #1 is still the winner, the Ack Dack 2.0 is going up for sale.

SET Man · « **Reply #35 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 07:47 pm »

Quote from: Occam on 6 Jan 2007, 07:32 pm

Totoro,

My comment on the Musiland -
http://ifiaudio.com/md10.html
was based solely on the comments over on headfi by a specific poster, Sean H -
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2520300&highlight=musiland+zhaolu#post2520300
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2505536&highlight=musiland+zhaolu#post2505536
I rarely take anyone's (especially real Reviewers) evaluations of any component on face value. The exception is when I've been able to callibrate their opinions against my own. I've followed Sean's posts on his mods to the Zhaolu DAC. These have roughly paralleled the same mods I've done on my own Zhaolu. When I've posted over on headfi about Zhaolu I've tried to not be specific about what I believe the mods will accomplish, and have generally described them as 'mo betta'. Sean's comments on exactly what the OPA2107 and the LM4562 do, have consistently been in agreement with my own observations, so his comments about the Musiland's are, to my subjective sensibilities, reasonable.

Beyond that, from my perspective, the stock SB is a rather pedestrian dac, even with an upgraded ps, although in that same configuration, it is a very, very good transport. So when someone opines that you can't get a better usb dac for $300, I thought of the Musiland MD-10 which supports RCA and BNC coax, toslink, as well as usb.

Hey!

Occam, I checked out their site. And that thing looked damn good for the asking price.

You should get one and bring it to one of the upcoming NY Rave so we could all check it out.

Take care,
Buddy

totoro · « **Reply #36 on:** 6 Jan 2007, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: Occam on 6 Jan 2007, 07:32 pm

Totoro,

My comment on the Musiland -
http://ifiaudio.com/md10.html
was based solely on the comments over on headfi by a specific poster, Sean H -
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2520300&highlight=musiland+zhaolu#post2520300
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2505536&highlight=musiland+zhaolu#post2505536
I rarely take anyone's (especially real Reviewers) evaluations of any component on face value. The exception is when I've been able to callibrate their opinions against my own. I've followed Sean's posts on his mods to the Zhaolu DAC. These have roughly paralleled the same mods I've done on my own Zhaolu. When I've posted over on headfi about Zhaolu I've tried to not be specific about what I believe the mods will accomplish, and have generally described them as 'mo betta'. Sean's comments on exactly what the OPA2107 and the LM4562 do, have consistently been in agreement with my own observations, so his comments about the Musiland's are, to my subjective sensibilities, reasonable.

Beyond that, from my perspective, the stock SB is a rather pedestrian dac, even with an upgraded ps, although in that same configuration, it is a very, very good transport. So when someone opines that you can't get a better usb dac for $300, I thought of the Musiland MD-10 which supports RCA and BNC coax, toslink, as well as usb.

Gotcha. I've been planning on getting a dac, but the plethora of options has me a bit paralyzed. On the one hand, for ~1k, there's the lavry/mytek/benchmark triumvirate. On the other, there are all of these new Chinese dacs. Of these, the citypulse and musiland seem very interesting to me.

Since I haven't been able to hear any of these in person, it's been very hard for me to make any kind of decision.

Where would you come down on this?

Occam · « **Reply #37 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 04:09 pm »

Totoro,

I've heard neither the Musiland or Mytek. Of the others (including my Zhaolu), IMO, the Citypulse is the best by a fair margin, albeit, it lacks the warmth that I like from my OPA2107 equipped Zhaolu. Preferences are obviously subjective, and much depends on the other components in your system.

If your intent is to combine the functionality of dac and preamp in the same component, neither the Citypulse or Zhaolu's preamp is up to the quality of their DACs.

FWIW,
Paul

totoro · « **Reply #38 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 09:50 pm »

Ah. So if I got a citypulse, I'd need to get something else to do volume control?

Thanks for the help.

Canyoneagle · « **Reply #39 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 11:53 pm »

There are so many possibilities with this budget, especially if you consider buying used gear.
For example, I've assembled a sweet little system for about US$2,000:

-Used Omega Compact Hemptone Speakers (awesome) - $950 incl shipping
- Skylan 4-post stands - $300 +/- (new)
- Used SLA-powered, modified Tripath amp - $225 incl shipping
- Red Wine Audio iMod - $430 incl shipping
- Audiopath Silver iPod interconnect - $139
- The Chord Co. Carnival speaker cables with Linn bananna plugs (from my old system) - $150

Total: about $2200.
The amp would've been about $650 new and the speakers $1400 (not incl shipping, say $80), so the system would have been about $800 more new, which still fits your budget.

Of course many variations exist, but you get the idea. By seeking good used gear you can open up your possibilities.

www.audiogon.com offers a search function as well as other modes of finding what is out there at the moment.

Good luck!

Warmly,
Michael