[jr314]

Hello audiocircle members,
It's a pleasure to be joining the ranks of audio experts. New to the audiophile world, I'm looking to all of you for some direction and guidance with helping me create my first-ever audiophile home audio setup. I'll be moving into a new construction high-rise condo unit in April '07. The challenge? To create the best value audiophile quality system for ~$3000. Here are some constraints:

-Listening Area (Living Room) Size: 17.5' x 15'
-Stereo Set-up (two channels only)
-High Quality Digital Audio (lossless) stored on Computer - output to high-end speakers

Having only spent the last month or so weighing my options for playing computer-stored music, I'm still unsure as to the best combination of devices/technology that will result in the highest quality home audio sound, given my budget. Is it better to invest in a USB/Firewire DAC, for example, or a "nice" receiver with a built-in DAC? What are the best speakers to use for this set-up (I'm considering floor standing B&Ws)? Will having the computer in the same room affect contribute to noticeable "noise" in the audio system? As I move forward, I'm sure that some of your opinions and recommendations will help me identify the best value audio system for my new condo. Looking forward to your ideas, thanks!
jr314

[Folsom]

http://www.slimdevices.com/ Squeeze Box 3

http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/Detail?no=369

http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/Detail?no=64 (needs WBT end I think to go with digital mods)

http://www.gr-research.com/components/lite_dacs.shtm (DAC 72)

http://www.trendsaudio.com/EN/Product/TA-10_desc.htm +
http://www.michael.mardis.com/trendamp/mods-1.htm (if he does not do them I would do it for free for you, just so I can see what it sounds like, plus I recommend an Alps pot)

http://www.batterywholesale.com/battery-store/proddetail.html?prodID=376 (I would grab a charger from Vinnie if he would sell them seperate from the Sig series)

http://www.anticables.com/anti-ic.html (the $100 ones)

http://www.anticables.com/order.html (I recommend 8 ft. to play it safe for all sorts of positioning of everyone)

http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/compacthemp.html

This setup should cost roughly $3000. You will have to make some cheap stands but hey, check it out

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/akropolise.html
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?PartNumber=240-744&raid=45&rak=240-744

Easy options.

That should be right around $3000-3300. I calculated $3075 exactly with no stands. Also you will need a cord for the battery to the amp, but that should be easy to make. All you need is the connector, some decent power wire, and two slip on ends. I can make one for you if you need ($15).

This setup would give you imaging, soundstage, detail, midrange that is exciting for vocals and guitar, and room to upgrade.



 

[Rocket_Ronny]

GR Research DAC

GR Research OB 5 speakers built by Raw Acoustics

McAlister PP150. 75 watt push/pull amp that sounds super clear like a 2A3 SET.

Should be around the $3,000.00 mark.

Rocket_Ronny

[Folsom]

Ronny he needs a source .

[Marbles]

Ronny he needs a source .

He has a computer...Rocket mentioned the the GR Research Dac (Lite on). What's the problem?

[Folsom]

Ronny he needs a source .

He has a computer...Rocket mentioned the the GR Research Dac (Lite on). What's the problem?

You need an interphase between the two. That is why I threw in a Squeeze Box. I honestly think the source is that important as I know a good T/Chip amp will reveal way more than a cheap source can provide, and with mods it will become sonically very pleasing. I personally think that the most money in speakers approach is over rated most of the time. There are just some speakers that are cheap that I would never touch (PSB for example).

[Marbles]

My mistake (thanks)...I read a while ago they were working on a USB input...I just checked the GRR website and see that it still is in the works...

[Occam]

Jr - Do us and yourself a favor and ask the same question in only ONE Circle. I've posted my comments in your thread in the other circle.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=35468.msg315297#msg315297

[GHM]

You could buy one of these Trends audio USB converters and use it with any Dac of your choice. With the additional battery power supply..cost $115 including shipping. I ordered one already..thanks to an AC member letting me know about it. I haven't recieved it yet. These units must be selling like hotcakes! Here's a review of it on TNT.

This leaves plenty for Speakers , Dac, Preamp and wiring.

About the computer noise..depends on the computer. I just started the PC route recently..the PC is quieter than my conventional players.

[totoro]

Just to put in my $.02.

Why not start off with the plain unadorned sb3? You can always get it modded later if you think it isn't good enough. A linear power supply would be a good cheap thing to upgrade first.

The opinion on mods isn't unanimous one way or the other, so I don't see the harm in trying without first. Claims that the sb3 is "unlistenable" in unmodified form are greatly overstated, IMO. I have a pretty decent system, and tossed a 2k cd player after getting the thing. This is all down to taste, so I'd say it would be a good idea to try it "unseasoned" first.

There are lots of threads about this topic on the slim devices forums.

http://forums.slimdevices.com

As far as amps go, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the ucd kits at diycable (one of the AC companies), the $1k amp from av123 (the sp3), or the Channel Islands monoblocks (another AC company). Lots of good stuff for 1k-1.5k.

The av123 x-series speakers do look interesting, as does the 2k strata mini (I _think_ Danny from GR Research had a hand in all of these).

Blue jeans cable would be a good way to go for a start, as well:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com

[tomjtx]

Excellent advice, totoro.

[maxwalrath]

SB3 $300
Promithius dual-mono TVC $450
AudioSector Patek $1200
Hornshoppe Horns $775
8th Nerve Response treatments $200
Cables $75

[totoro]

SB3 $300
Promithius dual-mono TVC $450
AudioSector Patek $1200
Hornshoppe Horns $775
8th Nerve Response treatments $200
Cables $75

That's a pretty interesting setup I wouldn't have though of. Bet it would sound really good.

[totoro]

One other thing to consider: it's kind of a vexed question whether or not to use a preamp with the sb3.
Many people (myself included) don't use a preamp at all. You _do_ need some kind of an attenuator to prevent blowing out your amp/speakers in the (extremely rare) case of a software failure. I have endler  attenuators on my amp.

I ditched my old classe preamp after I completely switched over to digital and got rid of my vinyl rig, so my personal preference is clear (). But many people prefer to have a preamp. You also need to have an amp that would be ok with this (all of the amps I mentioned should be fine, and the av123 amp is actually an integrated).

You could also get a used amp. You can get a mccormack dna.5 (which is a good solid amp with a nice sound) for ~500. Lots of other good used amps in this price range.

One of the really cool things about going the sb3 route is that you can get digital room correction for free (if you are running windows on your server box). I've been using the inguz eq room correction system for a couple months now (http://www.inguzaudio.com). That by itself gets you a pretty dramatic improvement in sound quality.

[Folsom]

I stand with the stronger source but...

If you are up for kits let us know what type of kits with speakers and soldering etc... That changes EVERYTHING.

[mfsoa]

Don't forget the room treatments if you haven't done so already.
I know its hard to leave space in your budget for them (and certainly (many) dealers aren't going to tell you to go with mid-line equipment so that you can spend some on room treatments).

But all things equal, give me a $2K speaker in a room w/ $1K in treatment over a $4K speaker in an acoustically bad room. (OK that's really broad but you know what I mean!)

In my opinion, the GIK panels offer the most bang for the buck, while 8thnerve and RealTraps are also known to make excellent products and all 3 mfgs are really helpful.

[dwk]

I'm not sure that I'll throw this out as a 'recommendation', but since I just totaled it up and my system as it stands is right around $3k it may be an interesting data point - it's certainly unconventional.

Speakers: Yorkville U15 Unities (http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=38&id=254) (1900)
Source: computer via Emu 1820M, Thuneau Allocator (~500)
Amp1: modified Panasonic XR25 (battery power) (200)
Amp2: 2nd hand Nad 2200 (200)
Subs: in progress (2-300)
Treatments ($misc) quick-n-dirty bass traps, markertek foam

Computer cost not considered, but since its an Athlon XP its not that much anyway. It is VERY quiet though, which was a satisfying accomplishment.

This system was designed pretty specifically for the room, which is very narrow  - 7.5' x ~16'.  I need to listen down the long axis, and I had 2 choices - nearfield with the speakers right up against the side walls, or else speakers in the corners. I went with speakers in the corners, which obviously is what started me down the controlled directivity road and to the speaker choice.

I don't listen all that widely to other systems and I'm still dialing this in. However, my subjective impression on the folkie material I've been using for initial setup is that this is very neutral with very low distortion (800W Unity cabs running @0.5W will do that), and obviously incredible dynamics. If the Yorkvilles could do a convincing 40Hz (they really only do 55 or so) it would simplify things greatly, and getting the subs settled is still an issue.

So, I'm not sure how this would compare overall, but I think I'm getting pretty close to the best sound I can possibly get in my particular room.  I'm particularly pleased with the Yorkvilles - buying them was a big risk since there was basically zero feedback out there on home use. They need a bit of EQ for certain, but after that I find them amazing - Tom Danley is a very clever guy, and for Yorkville to bring these in at under $2k is unreal.

[F-100]

I'm going to throw in my .02 here:

Source: Squeezebox 3 with Bolder Cable's full analog mods (Sonicap 2/Gold Bybee) ($700)
           Power Supply for SqueezeBox3 from Welborne Labs ($285)

Amp: Onix SP3 integrated amplifier
Speakers: Reference 1.8 in Piano Rosewood pair (Both speakers & amp are currently on sale for $1895)
Cables: $100

Total price for the whole package is around $3K and this would be my selection if I have to start all over again.

[chadh]

If I were doing it all over again, I think I'd try this;

Omega Super 3 XRS (I might wait until they're available with the new hemp drivers though.  Louis has said the introductory price will be the same as the current price: $849) link: http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/super3xrs.html
Almarro A205AII (this is supposedly a sweet little SEP integrated with two inputs, and also does a fine job driving headphones for $800) link: http://www.responseaudio.com/almarro.htm
Squeezebox 3 for $300
Back-up hard drive for all those flac files you'll be using:$100

Then decide how you'd like to allocate the last $950 between the following things:
1) Squeezebox modifications
2) Squeezebox  power supply
3) Room treatments
4) Cables (you'll need to spend some money on a pair of interconnects and some speaker cables - but you can certainly do this for less than $100.  Spending more is purely optional).
5) An extra digital cable and a DAC, planning to use the digital out from the squeezebox.
6) Tubes to roll into the Almarro
7) Loads of new music

From that list, my advice would be to spend some money on a power supply for the squeezebox (almost everybody says this is the biggest bang-for-the-buck improvement for the squeezebox) and to get some room treatments (if domestic arrangements permit.  I certainly haven't followed my own advice here, but the jury seems to have made a definitive pronouncement about the value of this sort of acoustical tweaking.  And for once, there seems no controversy over the theory either!)  I'd buy cheap cables from signal cable, or blue jeans, or even anti-cables.  Then, if I liked what I was hearing, I'd save for the SB3 mods and some super-cool tubes for the amp, and would borrow a lot of music from the local library.

Chad

[jr314]

I appreciate everyone's comments, I've certainly learned that I have more options than I originally thought. The Squeezebox 3 appears to be one of the most recommended devices on here...is this truly necessary if my computer is in the same room (close proximity) to my stereos? I also understand that the SB can also be connected by direct wire (not wireless) - if so, what is the advantage/disadvantage of having a SB versus a nice DAC?
jr314