Mods for Jolida JD102B, 202A - Discontinued June 2004

Bill Baker · « **on:** 8 Jul 2003, 03:18 pm »

We have had quite a few inquiries for modification on the little Jolida 102B tube amplifier. I now have a modded unit up and running and should be able to offer these mods for current owners of this amplifier within the next week or two.
Details of what the mod includes can be found on the Jolida Tube Amp Mods page at
http://www.responseaudio.com

July 25, 03

We now have the mod package available for this amp along with mod to convert it to run in Triode operation. Modifications have been going very well for this unit with 100% feedback from customers.

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Jul 2003, 10:11 am »

Bill:

Any chance of seeing a professional (or any kind of) review of these modded all tube amps? Richard George is my fave.

My read is that there's a lot of respect for Jolida as a value leader and Dan as a producer of high sound quality mods, but customers want to know how these products stack up against other tube amps in their price ranges.

thanks,

jeff

Bill Baker · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Jul 2003, 01:46 pm »

Hi Jeff,
Actually, I have been talling with some reviewers about reviewing the SE302A and hope to have a review out later this year. I cannot mention which company is interested at this time but will notify this board and my site when the amp is sent in.

Dan and I are also working on having the RAM CD25 professionally reviewed. Stay tuned for this.

Regarding ModWright - Dan and I do have a few products out together such as the RAM Hybrid amplifiers and RAM CD25 but the Jolida tube amp mods are performed here at Response Audio by myself.

I do speak with Dan about these mods often and he does supply some great ideas with some new therioes that may be arriving in forthcoming SE models but again, the Jolida tube mods are not RAM (Response Audio - ModWright) products.

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Jul 2003, 08:18 pm »

Thanks for the information/clarification Bill.

How do the three SE amps compare to each other?

jeff

Bill Baker · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 07:02 pm »

Hi Jeff,
Basically there is only two SE amps which are the 302 and 502. We do however, have implemented many of the SE mods into the Jolida 102B.

Differences between these units is primarily the different sonic characteristics of the different power tubes used throughout each unit. To keep it short....

102B - 20 wpc EL84 based with a sweet sound that can easily drive most speakers in a smaller room or high-e speaker in a larger room.

302 - 50 wpc EL34 based amp that is extremely seductive sounding. The EL34, IMHO, is the most "musical" sounding tube letting you enjoy the music and not over analyze the gear.

502 - 60 wpc 6550/KT88 based. More authoritive and controlled. Not as seductive as the 302 or as swet as the 102.

All the different tube types have their following and those who prefer their sound. It's all a matter of personal taste, preferences and listening habits.

How the modified units compare with their stock counterparts.........well, that a different story.

SixCats! · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Apr 2004, 02:58 pm »

Hi Bill and fellow members,

My name is Tom aka SixCats! Well...I guess it is fitting I become a member here today APRIL 1, 2004 as the joke is on me! I guess I am the fool as I can not figure out how to post a NEW post! Please tell me...what am I missing? Anyway...Bill...I spoke with you yesterday about buying a JOLIDA amp in the future. I am from Maine. I will continue to scope out your site and these pages to get a better idea what amp will best suit my needs. I sometimes think that a lower power (and priced) amp would suit my needs (I've even considered a SET amp) but...I do NOT own really efficent speakers. I am presently using a pair of vintage Pioneer HPM 100's (four ways) which I find are OUTSTANDING speakers for "all around" use. The HPM 100's are 92.5 db efficent. I also have a vintage pair of THIEL 03A's but...these require a EQ box so if I were to use the 03A's...I would have to have a amp with PRE AMP in's & out's. To make matters ever more confussing, I would also someday like to buy a pair of MAGGIE MMG's and...I have considered a pair of single driver speakers or horn speakers. So...lol...you can see that I am a WRECK as far as knowing what to use for speakers. Perhaps I should consider a amp with a LOT of juice as I don't want to be limited in my speaker choices. I plan on using this future system to listen to mostly JAZZ, BLUES, CHAMBER, VOCAL, etc. however...I do like to CRANK IT! once in a while with ROCK or WAGNER etc. That being said...what should I consider in the way of a JOLIDA amp? Perhaps something like the 502 or the 801 ? I am trying to "split the difference" between having a REVEALING system and a MUSICAL system if possible. Anyway...thank you all for any help/suggestions.

Regards,

SixCats!

JLM · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Apr 2004, 10:34 am »

Six:

Wow, you're all over the map. (like many of us)

IMO you need to settle into one corner of the audio universe with you're speaker selection or you'll go nuts, because there really isn't one perfect amp for all those choices. The closest you might find is with one of the newer digital amps, but it's a new technology and may not have the sound you want.

When looking for amps consider:

1. Tubes tend to sound warm, euphoric, and/or seductive. They clip kindly or gracefully. They tend not to have bass authority. Simpler the better SETs have more detail and speed, but available power is very low.

2. Solid state are less romantic sounding. They clip hard and ugly. They sound best near their rated output, typically are more powerful than tubes, have speed, and bass authority.

3. Digital is early on the learning curve, but very promising. RF noise, need for clean power, and distortion quirks are still being researched. But they have the warmth of tubes with the speed and power of solid state. And they hold the promise in CD/SACD/DVD systems of eliminating analog conversion of the signal altogether.

IMO this is a crummy time to buy an amp. I'd wait to see what comes from the digital "revolution". I forsee solid state going away and two major camps developing. The vintage camp (tubes, vinyl, and higher efficiency speakers) and the digital camp (audio PCs using built in digital amp boards and playback via hard drives from compressed, lossless files downloaded from the web).

Bill Baker · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Apr 2004, 01:35 pm »

Hi Six,
JLM has a point in regard to deciding which "type" of sound you prefer and should be based on something you can live with for a long time. The perfect amp for every application does not exist and everyone will have a different opinion when recommending one to you. You and your ears are the only judge.

Quote

. Tubes tend to sound warm, euphoric, and/or seductive. They clip kindly or gracefully. They tend not to have bass authority. Simpler the better SETs have more detail and speed, but available power is very low.

Yes, I am becoming a bit biased here as tubes are the only thing I can and will listen to. Not to say anything negative about solid state rather my personal preference. This is not to say that tubes would be the best choice for you. To drive some of the speakers you mentioned such as the Maggies, most tube amps would work but to get full potential and authority, you would need a higher powered unit that could be costly.

Quote

Solid state are less romantic sounding. They clip hard and ugly. They sound best near their rated output, typically are more powerful than tubes, have speed, and bass authority.

Agreed. Solid state would give you more authority and control. There are some very nice (warmer) sounding SS pieces out there and auditioning would be in order to choose the right one for you. I do not beleive in the old school thought of "an amp is an amp and they all sound the same". This is simply not true. For those who beleive in this, their life is much easier as they need not spend much money at Circuit City to get a system up and running.

Quote

Digital is early on the learning curve, but very promising. RF noise, need for clean power, and distortion quirks are still being researched. But they have the warmth of tubes with the speed and power of solid state. And they hold the promise in CD/SACD/DVD systems of eliminating analog conversion of the signal altogether

In all honesty, I do not have a lot of experience with Digital. What I have heard did impress me to the point of wanting to experiment more but still not the tube sound I find hard to get away from.

Quote

IMO this is a crummy time to buy an amp. I'd wait to see what comes from the digital "revolution". I forsee solid state going away and two major camps developing. The vintage camp (tubes, vinyl, and higher efficiency speakers) and the digital camp (audio PCs using built in digital amp boards and playback via hard drives from compressed, lossless files downloaded from the web).

This is the only statement I am not sure I agree with. While digital may become more popular, I do not see solid state going to the curb any time soon. Many made the same statement in regard to CD vs SACD. It may someday happen but not an overnight happening. Solid state, as well as CD will be here for MANY years.

JLM, I am not saying you are wrong but do have a different opinion. It will obviously be interesting to see what develops in the world of audio. I can only predict [my] future and tubes will be in it.

SIX - no one can tell what what is best for you and your ears. Audio is a pasion and hobby with no limitations. If there were one best products and technology, there would be only one audio company selling. Options are everywhere. The world of the internet has a twofold effect on the hobby; ie, it opens a world of options to choose from but at the same time makes it much more difficult as you cannot always audition those options. No matter what you decide upon, you will always wonder.......what if??

JLM · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Apr 2004, 10:04 pm »

Bill:

Its gratifying to know that we agree on so much.

My predictions are just guesses with little knowledge of electronics. And you're right, none of this, even if it all came to pass, will happen overnight. I should probably qualify that "crummy time to buy an amp" statement by stating that I don't swap out equipment every 6 months or have a house full of various components like some folks around here seem to, so I'm speaking from a perspective with a 5 - 10 year horizon.

Six needs to develop a set of audio priorities and, only then research and audition equipment to achieve those goals.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Apr 2004, 11:28 pm »

Quote

Six needs to develop a set of audio priorities and, only then research and audition equipment to achieve those goals

.

I agree. But as you also mentioned, many people like to "swap" equipment frequently out of curiosity. I think this is why so many people have numerous components.
To establish a primary system that you will keep for many years does require doing your homework. Buy once, buy right! Not everyone has the $$ to cycle gear every other week.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jun 2004, 02:03 am »

Due to the high number of larger, more time consuming modifications of exclusive products, I have decided to do away with the smaller 102B and 202A Jolida mods for now.

macmeech · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Jun 2004, 02:46 am »

Don't become another egomaniac.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Jun 2004, 03:03 am »

Quote from: macmeech

Don't become another egomaniac.

WOW, where'd THAT come from?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Jun 2004, 12:53 pm »

Quote

Don't become another egomaniac.

I know exactly where this came from.

Some people will think that I want to concentrate on the more expensive stuff. I assure you this is not the case. The reasoning for not having these available for now is due to the lack of inquiries for these two products. This is also the reason for taking them off my website for now. They will be back, but at this time many people find it hard to justify putting money into such an inexpensive product. Modifying a 102 takes only a few hours where the Hurricanes take about 17. If anything, I would want to poop out several 102s a week rather than spend 2 weeks on one product.

I still have the Signature Series Jolida 302/502 which has been considered the best valued product I offer and make no more on this than I do with the 102 or 202 modifications.

People who know me know what I am like as a person. Egomaniac is something I have never been acused of being.

macmeech · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Jul 2004, 03:11 am »

Quote from: Response Audio

I know exactly where this came from.

Some people will think that I want to concentrate on the more expensive stuff. I assure you this is not the case. The reasoning for not having these available for now is due to the lack of inquiries for these two products. This is also the reason for taking them off my website for now. They will be back, but at this time many people find it hard to justify putting money into such an inexpensive product. Modifying a 102 takes only a few hours where the Hurrican ...

A dealer should service all the products he sells. If you are not getting inquiries, then let sleeping dogs lie. But the service should be available to all Jolida customers.
Incidentally, I smoked my amp after my first attempt at biasing. See the lab. I didn't bother you with it because I didn't buy it from you. Close call

I guess I'll be in the market for tube repairs
sooner than I thought. Practice makes perfect.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Jul 2004, 03:28 am »

Quote

A dealer should service all the products he sells. If you are not getting inquiries, then let sleeping dogs lie. But the service should be available to all Jolida customers.
Incidentally, I smoked my amp after my first attempt at biasing. See the lab. I didn't bother you with it because I didn't buy it from you. Close call I guess I'll be in the market for tube repairs
sooner than I thought. Practice makes perfect.

Hi Mac,
You are correct and I do service any and all of the products I have in the field including tube products I don't even carry. Servicing and offering further modifications are two seperate animals. On the service side, I receive several products on a monthly basis for service that were not originally purchased from myself. In fact, at this moment, I have a Jolida 202A on my bench that literally had a transformer meltdown do to a DIY attempt of mods and triode conversion, a Ming-Da MC34 that was blowing fuses everytime the power was turned on (this unit was purchased direct from China) and a few other products outside of my lineup sitting on the bench in need of serious repiar due to people attempting their own upgrades.
Diodes installed backwards, PS caps in the wrong polarity, "hot" wires exposed touching the chassis, yada, yada, yada. I even had one where the consumer broke the guide off the bottom of an EL34 figuring it did not matter what position the tube went in.

I still received two 202s in for modificatins the past two weeks. Even though I do not have them posted on my site, I do not turn people down if they are looking to have on of these units worked on or modified. As of today, I cannot bring in any further pieces only due to the large number of pieces already here for work.

I'll check out the lab. It's difficult to mess anything up during the bias process on the Jolidas??

Bill Baker · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 01:14 am »

Wow, didn't think people would notice. The emails starting coming in about modifications for the 102B and 202A.
I decided to take these off my site when the inquiries started to die off but I guess it was a premature move.
Long story short.... they're back!! Both the Jolida 102B and 202A as well as a new modified series of ASL SET amplifiers.

macmeech · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 01:39 am »

That's because we love you.

Your diagnosis of a stuck bias screw was correct. For 100 bucks Wayne cleaned the bias screws and the control knobs, replaced the tube that had a thermal, and put everything on scope to set the bias at 27mv. It is working like a charm, and frankly sounds better to me than my Acurus SS.

Try five 10 hour days with two days off in a row to de-stress. The first day is for rest; the second day for play. You'll get just as much done in a more compressed amount of time.

There it is. Phil

Bill Baker · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:40 am »

HI Phil,
Glad to hear it was an easily repairable part. Hey, I would have only charged you $300 to fix it (just kidding).
Sounds like you're back up and runningand now will be able to enjoy the benefits and potential the 102 has to offer.
If the rest of the tubes were older with a lot of hours on them, you may want to consider a new quad. You can pick them up for less than $20 for all 4.
I would be interested in knowing Wayne's thoughts of the circuitry and results of running this piece on the scope. I have not yet had the opportunity to have the older version run through the paces.
If you have any other questions, comments or concerns in regard to the Jolida, feel free to keep in touch.

Happy listening to ya!!

macmeech · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 12:33 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio

I would be interested in knowing Wayne's thoughts of the circuitry and results of running this piece on the scope ...

Wayne loves to talk on the phone at (716) 675-8300. He is 55+ years old, so he has been around the block with the high end. They feature McIntosh and Phase Technology. Those 275 tube amps look great if you've got the bread.