How good are the Golden Tube amps?

LordCloud · « **on:** 8 Jul 2003, 02:56 pm »

I have a pair of IRD Audio monos, but I want a tonally richer sound with more air and space and I think tubes are the way to go. But I don't have a lot of money to throw at the amps initially, so I am looking at the Golden Tube SE40s. I was wodering if anyone has any experience with it and if anyone knows how it would stack up against the IRD amps. Thanks in advance.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Jul 2003, 04:20 pm »

I used to be a distributor for Golden Tube Audio.

The SE40 was fair. The SE40-SE was much better. All their stuff had reliability problems and much of the parts quality was pretty cheap, but then again those amps sold for pretty cheap too.

A much better sounding and much more reliable amp can be bought from my buddy Gary Dodd. Here is his latest 50 watt amp:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=2835

And for $1,300. I consider it very high value.

dyfromhawaii · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 07:32 am »

I have had the se-40 (reg version) since 1995. Have NOS 6sn7s installed with the standard Sovtek 6L6 output tubes. Have had to only replace two resistors so far, but felt because it was not having good air circulation, until I placed it on top of my rack with unlimited air flow.

Bought the Le Amps (newest version) over 15 months ago I believe since they modified many, many months ago it by removing the DC blocking cap and turning down the LED light.

Results: like the SE-40 much better...

I have a dealer here that had carried the GTA line since its inception and does modifications and maintenance, and you will here that it compares to amps 2-3 times more (along with its detractors). To each their own as always...

go to : [email protected]

Beezer · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 12:09 pm »

I had their integrated amp once upon a time, SI-50 mk II I think. I found it to be be great in the midband, very rich with beautiful vocals. Highs were pretty nice also. Low end was pretty weak though. It seemed like a great unit for the money and provided much musical enjoyment.

Beez

billfort · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 07:53 pm »

I have a GTA-300B SET which is a pretty different animal than the SE40. It's a nice sounding amp with great midrange and SET magic but compared to a scratch built 300B I recently built with Electra-Print OT's, the GTA has pretty unimpressive bass. Aside from a sometimes annoying low level hum, I never had any reliability problems with it but you certainly read about SE40 problems now and then on the golden_tube forum. I imagine an SE40-SE would be a good audio bargain providing the thing was working properly and you had fairly easy access to a competent tech if it lets you down.

jackman · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 08:10 pm »

I bought a Golden Tube Amp on the internet...only to have a large German Woman come to my house and piss on me! I checked the ad and it was for a Golden Shower...the lesson is to read the ad carefully!

Jman

Curt · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 09:35 am »

Quote from: LordCloud

I have a pair of IRD Audio monos, but I want a tonally richer sound with more air and space and I think tubes are the way to go. But I don't have a lot of money to throw at the amps initially, so I am looking at the Golden Tube SE40s. I was wodering if anyone has any experience with it and if anyone knows how it would stack up against the IRD amps. Thanks in advance.

What up-stream components are you using? Many times the up-stream components set the sound more than the amps.

I've heard the MB-100s sound good and not so good when changing preamps and sources. Just a thought.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 02:53 pm »

I agree with Beezer about the SI-50.

It did sound nice, but had no bottom end. It could have been a week power supply.

Hey how about this? We went to the WCES to demo our latest speakers and made a point to use electronics that were affordable.

We used a Rega Plant CD player and a Golden tube pre-amp and SE-40SE amp.

The combo sounded really good together, but when we got there the pre-amp was dead.

We had to go track down Chris Low (or how every you spell his last name) at the Hilton to see about getting another one. He acted like it was all our fault, had no other pre-map for us, and acted like he could care less.

We had to get another one Red labeled to us for the opening day from GR Research, and all the way from Texas...

Then we had a brad new pre-amp that really needed some burn in time, and sounded lifeless for the first day or so.

On a better note, Jeff from Sonic Craft has been buying some of those old Golden tube amps and going through them to upgrade the week links, add higher quality parts, and resale them as much better sounding units.

LordCloud · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 08:10 pm »

Quote from: Curt

Quote from: LordCloud
I have a pair of IRD Audio monos, but I want a tonally richer sound with more air and space and I think tubes are the way to go. But I don't have a lot of money to throw at the amps initially, so I am looking at the Golden Tube SE40s. I was wodering if anyone has any experience with it and if anyone knows how it would stack up against the IRD amps. Thanks in advance.

What up-stream components are you using? Many times the up-stream components set the sound more than the amps.
...

Hi Curt,

I have a Music Hall cd player with Mapleshade wires going into a Music Angel tubed preamp. The preamp and cd player have Virtual Dynamics power cords on them and both amps have Virtual Dynamics Basic Power power cords on them. All going into Meadwlark Swifts through Mapleshade Golden Helix speaker cables. What do you think?

Curt · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Jul 2003, 07:19 am »

Quote from: LordCloud

Hi Curt,

I have a Music Hall cd player with Mapleshade wires going into a Music Angel tubed preamp. The preamp and cd player have Virtual Dynamics power cords on them and both amps have Virtual Dynamics Basic Power power cords on them. All going into Meadwlark Swifts through Mapleshade Golden Helix speaker cables. What do you think?

Sounds like a nice system, like the Music Hall cdp and Swifts, but I'm not familiar with the preamp.

I believe the MB-100s let you hear your other components, it's pretty transparent, and MB-100s can take the Swifts to their limits. Maybe you should give a few other preamps a listen, unless the Swifts really do like tube amps better which might be the case.

IMHO the preamp, usually, can be much more critical than the amps ... voicing a system. If your upstream components can create the sound you like then you can keep SS amps which are easier to maintain and sometimes control the drivers better especially in the lower bass frequencies.

Have you been able to find any Music Angel preamp reviews yet? Any other owners? Or locate a manual with specs? Just wondering, I saw your posts at AA before when you were looking. I couldn't find a review either.

Good luck looking for your sound and enjoy that nice system, you could hardly go wrong.

LordCloud · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jul 2003, 01:39 pm »

Curt,

In no way am I unhappy with the sound that I am getting from my system, it was an especially proud day when I unpacked my amps. I get depth, width, image density, and three dimensionality with my current set up, but I have always heard that a tube amp can take these qualities further. In fact I am surprised by the amount I am getting considering my stereo reference is a pair of Watt Puppy 7s latched onto an all Mark Levinson system at the local dealer. I do like my current preamp although I can find absolutely no information on it, but I do lan on retubing it soon so maybe that may push things further in the direction I want to go. In your experience do you not like tubed preamps on your amps? I had initially thought of getting a passive preamp but I have always heard that a ss amp and a tube preamp are a great match. And I do like the combination, but I am open to try new things.

Curt · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jul 2003, 05:41 pm »

You have a fine system, it's just that the problem you described, “I want a tonally richer sound with more air and space”, IMO sounded like it could be the preamp. Or high-capacitance Ics between the preamp and the amps (can act as a LP filter if preamp has high impedance output).

Air and space, light, delicate, and open are all subjective qualities of systems with smooth and very extended HF response. The MB-100 goes out flat to 200KHz, it has a smooth extended HF response, but sometimes a tube design can fail in the extended HF area and/or can sometimes have a high output impedance.

This is why I was trying to find some more information on your preamp, to check out it's frequency response, output impedance and what others thought subjectively of its sound.

The MB-100 works equally well with tube or SS preamps, you should use whatever sounds best to you. IMO, this day and age, a good preamp, tube or SS sounds much the same. If the preamp is taking nothing away or adding nothing (to the recorded performance) they should sound the same.

I personally like accuracy in my system, but some like to error on the warm side with tube 3rd harmonics (distortion), others like to error on the hard side with a dry almost analytical SS sound (distortion).

It's just a matter of personal taste plus the system/ room, and the type of music to be played. Maybe we all hear a little differently too, who really knows. You know it's right, for you, when it makes you feel good, forget the system, and get involved in the music.

Anyway, you may just need a little preamp or cable tweak to improve your air and space. Good luck

LordCloud · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jul 2003, 06:07 pm »

What I'm doing is slowly changing out my copper cables for Bogdan Audio silver ones, I have one silver cable going from the preamp to the amps and I liked the improvement over the Beldens that I had before. So hopefully that will help. I also plan on having a pair of subwoofers made (strictly music subs made by a former jazz musician turned audiophile) so I hope that will give me more spatial information and more image solidity, the Swifts aren't exactly bass champs. I don't want to make it seem as though I'm not in love with your amps, they're wonderful and I have nothing negative to say about them, how about a low powered amp for high sensitivity speakers or small rooms?

Curt · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Jul 2003, 07:15 am »

Quote: "how about a low powered amp for high sensitivity speakers or small rooms? "

The Swifts are not really high-efficency loudspeakers, they are 89dB @ 2.83V/1m in room, this means they are actually about 86dB @ 2.83V/1m. For this loudspeaker low power (<100W) may not be a good choice, even in a small room. With 100-125W you will just about reach live performance levels in the sweetspot. The small room will actualy help because you will probably not be much more than 2m from the speakers (you loose as much as 6dB/m).

I think the subwoofer idea is good and will get you the bottom octave which really makes a difference IMO, I love low bass which seems to add more emotion to many types of music. Low bass really can flesh out the music program.

BTW, I'm not defending the MB-100s at all, just trying to help you find the air and space. This thread just hit me as interesting.

I 'd start with listening to different (maybe borrowed) ICs (between the preamp and amp) just to see if the system opened up, and don't worry about silver, good quality copper wires (low pF/ft) will get the job done just fine. Some of the cables they like to call "digital" have low pF/ft and can some times make a difference when testing a high impedance output device.

It would also be nice to get some info on your preamp or even swap it out (again maybe borrowed) just for a listen to something different to see if that helps.

IRD was thinking of sending a "Purist" on an audition tour, maybe if enough people were interested - to make it worth the effort, maybe we could put you on the list. Of course this is just in the thinking stage at this time.

So, these are all of my thoughts on this matter for now and again I wish you good luck. Enjoy.

LordCloud · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Jul 2003, 02:28 pm »

I wasn't thinking of the Swifts as being high sensitivity, although in practice I only turn the volume knob twice to get satisfactory volume in my listening room. But I also live in an apartment. I am kind of looking at maybe listening to a pair of Abbys from Cain & Cain, since I don't have a large room and I listen in the relative nearfield(6-7 feet) I think low power high sensitivity may be kind of interesting. But that is many moons away and just a thought. And you should be defending your amps they are great amps in my opinion, they honestly mate very well with the rest of my system. I will be buying a second pair to power the subwoofers when I get them made. Although I do like the idea of the tube preamp with a sold state amp, I would love to hear your purist preamp in my system, the "tour" sounds like a great idea put me on the list! There is actually a guy here in Utah who has your preamp, hopefully I can get to hear it in his system. Once I finish cabling my sytem and changing the tubes out on my preamp, I'll let you know what I hear.

Den · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Jul 2003, 08:00 am »

Quote from: Curt

. . .IRD was thinking of sending a "Purist" on an audition tour, maybe if enough people were interested - to make it worth the effort, maybe we could put you on the list. Of course this is just in the thinking stage at this time.

Quote from: LordCloud

. . .I would love to hear your purist preamp in my system, the "tour" sounds like a great idea put me on the list!

Me too. Actually, I'd really like to try the LLC-A. This would give folks a chance to sample your pre and your XO. Perhaps an "LLC Tour" thread should be started in the IRD forum. . .

Curt · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Jul 2003, 08:02 am »

Hi Den,

Yes, a good idea to start a separate thread on the tour idea.

I will do that soon to see if there is enough interest, thanks.