[eril]

I need a remote volume control for my system, and want to run with either RWA Sig 70's or Sig 30.
That choice will ultimately depend on the sensitivity of the speakers I upgrade to.
I am leaning to the Sig 30 with De Vore Fidelity Gibbon Super 8, or the Sig 70 with the De Vore Nines that are due out at CES.
I'd appreciate advice or opinions from anyone who is using (or has used) their RWA Sigs with a remote volume control pre-amp.
The Bent Tap suggests it self as it uses the same Dact attenuator. If I had that I could (presumably) even ask Vinnie to build the Sigs without the Dact.
I live in New Zealand so auditioning in advance is not possible.
All thoughts/opinions are welcome.

Thanks in advance
Eril

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Eril,

If I had that I could (presumably) even ask Vinnie to build the Sigs without the Dact.

I do not build the Signature amps w/o the DACTs (no customization options are offered other than the remote control option).

I wouldn't use a passive preamp in front of the Signature amps because they already use a passive volume control (the DACT). 

I know the Signature 30 will be able to drive the DeVore Super 8s or the Nines w/o any trouble.  Both are really excellent speakers!

Best regards,

Vinnie

[eril]

Thanks Vinnie.
I better understand my options now.
I'm still interested to hear from any Sig 30 or Sig 70 users that have an active pre-amp in their system.
I need to consider all options before I make a "blind" purchase.

Cheers
Eril

[Vinnie R.]

Thanks Vinnie.
I better understand my options now.
I'm still interested to hear from any Sig 30 or Sig 70 users that have an active pre-amp in their system.
I need to consider all options before I make a "blind" purchase.

Cheers
Eril

Hi Eril,

I know there are some Sig 30/70 customers out there using active preamps.  Hopefully they'll chime in.... thanks guys!

Best,

Vinnie

[Dmason]

I have used several tube pre amps with mine, most notably a custom built summed channel, 6SN7 unit I built from a circuit on TubeCAD, and also an equally delicious Joule Electra LA150 unit, and I find that active tube preamps added nothing to the Signature 30 gestalt. In fact, I immediately found they detracted from the sound. One of the best combinations was my Signature 30 with my Sony Playstation, or the Monica 2 DAC. no pre amp. For analogue, my Samsung 1/2 inch tape deck is FABULOUS direct IN to the Sig 30, my personal favorite. I find analogue sources sound best with T amps in general, and out of this world, with this thing.

And I love active tube pre amps. I doubt this helps.

[lonewolfny42]

For the past 2-3 weeks, I've been using a Mapletree Audio Ultra 4A SE with my Sig. 30. I borrowed it from topround/Mike. Neither are remote controlled....but it has been a good match.
On its own, the Sig. 30 sounds just fine....with the addition of a tube preamp, I'm enjoying a little more depth/air in the music presentation....nice for Jazz and Acoustic music.
I do own a remote preamp....a Modwright....but its not here at the present time.
But IMO..... either a Sig. 30 or the mono 70's will be very enjoyable....even without a preamp.

                                             Chris

[-Richard-]

Hi Eril ~

Vinnie's Signature 30 amplifier is "tuned" to sound its best as a self-contained "integrated"
amplifier... although Vinnie does not seem to feel that the word "integrated" technically applies
to his Signature line of amplifiers, they are in fact fully integrated... and as such reach a very
high level of resolution with its characteristically smooth and organically coherent sound.

However, Vinnie knows only too well that audio enthusiasts like to shape their musical pleasure
to their individual tastes... and he is quite tolerant of users placing tube pre-amps in front of
his Signature amps to achieve a specific sound.

In one sense, one could easily assume that a Signature 30 (or Signature 70) amp combined with
a tube pre-amp would necessarily give you the best of both worlds... however that is not
entirely clear... the unique characteristics of the Signature 30 amplifier has its own highly
sophisticated sound: transparent, smooth, highly resolving, articulate and organic in nature.

It seems that once an amplifier reaches a certain level of refinement, it begins to parallel other
amplifiers that have achieved similar levels of refinement in certain areas... so it is no surprise
that many owners of the Signature 30, feel that it sounds like a beautifully designed
SET amplifier, for example (without the problems that SET tube amplifiers sometimes have).

I take my Signature 30 on its own terms... as a self-contained integrated amplifier... I have
no wish to experiment with tube preamplifiers because I would not want to give up the
Signature 30's amazing and magical ability to resolve the music in the way that it does!!!!

I strongly suggest you allow the Signature series of amplifiers to play as they were designed
by Vinnie Rossi... and then see what you think... my guess is that you will find it is all
that you need!!!

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[Vinnie R.]

I strongly suggest you allow the Signature series of amplifiers to play as they were designed by Vinnie Rossi... and then see what you think... my guess is that you will find it is all that you need!!!

Hi Richard,

I couldn't agree with you more... AS LONG AS one is satisfied with the sound of thier source.  The idea then is to keep a minimalist signal path... Source >> Signature 30/70 with their build-in volume control >> Speakers

However, Vinnie knows only too well that audio enthusiasts like to shape their musical pleasure to their individual tastes... and he is quite tolerant of users placing tube pre-amps in front of his Signature amps to achieve a specific sound.

Sure, not that there's anything wrong with that!     If it sounds better that way to you, then it really is better!  Until you try it both ways, you never really know...

Thanks for posting,

Vinnie

[roymail]

Great post, Richard.  Simple is better... not that Vinnie's designs are simple but I'm not a big fan of putting more links in the chain.  Thanks!

- Roy

[macrojack]

It sounds like RWA needs a new product. Vinnie, are you listening? Not to your system -- to me. A lot of Sig 70 owners might be interested in a Sig 3s with a volume control. Some, like Eril, would want it with the remote volume option. If this were available, then Sig 70's could be offered without a volume knob. That might lower their cost enough to accommodate the volume option on the Sig 3s.
Anybody else think this is a good idea?

[Maxxie38!]

I also would be interested in experiences of members with preamps (with phono board, preferably tube or hybrid). I have two sources (CD and vinyl) and going with the 3S for switching would mean two boxes rather than one and an additional IC.

Thanks
Christian

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Macrojack,

Thanks for your post, but I am (respectfully) sticking to the way things are because they seem to be working out

The Sig 30 and 70s have a built-in passive attenuator (which is very high quality and I designed the input stage of the amplifers around this component).  For those who only have one source, I recommend connecting your source directly into the Signature amp and using the built-in volume control.  Of course, you can try a preamp to alter the sound (for better or worse), but I recommend finding a source that your really like the sound of and then sending it directly to the Signature amplifier.  It just sounds really, really good this way  aa

For those who have multiple sources, you have two options:

a) Consider the Signature 3S (very close to being sonically invisible, with DACT CT3 selector switch, vampire RCA jacks, and the same internal wire as the Signature 30 and 70s).  This unit does not have a built-in volume control.... it is ONLY a switch.  The volume control is via the amplifier as described above.  You can stack it with the Signature amplifier, use  really short jumper interconnects, and now you have the ability to select from 4 sources.

b) Use an external preamp (I recommend an active one, as the Signature amps already have a built-in passive attenuator... I wouldn't put two passive attenuators in series).  Then, use the built-in attenuator of the Signature amp as a gain control to set the gain of the amp so you obtain the most useable range out of your active preamps volume control. 

As mentioned above, the preamp will "flavor" the sound for better or worse.  The Signature 3S switch (option "a" above) does not add flavor.

I also would be interested in experiences of members with preamps (with phono board, preferably tube or hybrid).

Hi Christian,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!

You can use a phono stage into a Signature 3S, or use an active preamp with built-in phono stage.  It sounds like you don't want two extra boxes 

What do you guys think of these choices:

Here are a few that I know of that have good reputations:
 
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/mad4multra_e.html
 
They have a web forum on audiocircle.com (just like I do):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=29.0
 
Here are a few others that you might want to look at:
http://www.juicymusicaudio.com/webpages/bbx.html
 
http://www.odysseyaudio.com/tempest.html
 
Thanks for your input for Christian.

Best regards,

Vinnie

[ridecycling]

Eril-
If a remote control is a requirement, you might consider pairing a QUAD 99 CDP-2 with a Sig 30 or 70.  The QUAD has a sort of preamp set up that allows you to control volume and track selection, on/off via remote and the QUAD sounds quite nice as well.   

[maxwalrath]

If all you want is volume control and no tubes, go for a TVC.  At the price it's a no-brainer as most people report it sounds better than the usual passive.

[Vinnie R.]

If all you want is volume control and no tubes, go for a TVC.  At the price it's a no-brainer as most people report it sounds better than the usual passive.

All,

I don't recommend using a TVC (or any other passive preamp) in front of the Signature 30/70s.  These amps already have built-in DACT CT2 stepped attenuators (passive) for controlling volume... using anothe passive in front of that will not give the best results.

If you want to use a preamp in front of the Sig 30/70s, I highly recommned going with an active preamp (a tubed-based preamp seems to be the most popular choice with these amps).

If you just want to add input select capability, the Signature 3S is the recommended purist approach:
http://www.redwineaudio.com/Signature_3S.html

Best regards,

Vinnie