[John Casler]

While I am an AudioQuest Dealer, I am not an electrical engineer.

Anyone have any opinions on the information below?  I don't care if they are opposing or competitive views, I just wonder what "if any" improvement those "in the know" might think this makes.

If I have posted this in the wrong place please move me, but this is a question and not a promotion.

AUDIOQUEST INTRODUCES DIELECTRIC BIAS SYSTEM

Irvine, CA-May 1, 2003 AudioQuest announced today a new line of cable products incorporating an on-board battery powered Dielectric-Bias System or “DBS”.

The patent pending DBS is a simple, elegant solution to one of cable’s most vexing performance challenges.

A highly misunderstood area of cable performance is the subject of cable run-in, sometimes (inaccurately) referred to as “break-in.” "Break-in" properly applies to one-way mechanical phenomena, such as a motor or a loudspeaker surround. Cables and capacitors do not “break-in”, rather their "dielectric forms," meaning that it takes time for the dielectric material to adapt to a charged state.

This process is quite audible and explains the significant improvement heard in electronics, loudspeakers and cables as signal is applied over a period of time. It has long been noted that cables (and all audio components) sound better after having been left turned-on for a number of days. It has also been noted that once turned off, the component or cable slowly returns to its original uncharged state. For many music lovers, this means that they are almost never hearing their cables in their optimum state.

AudioQuest’s founder and chief designer, Bill Low, explains the Dielectric-Bias System: “DBS puts all of a cable's dielectric into a comparatively high voltage DC field ... continuously from the time the cable is terminated. The exceptionally simple design uses a wire down the middle of the cable, which is simply an extension of a battery's anode. This wire is attached to positive (+) of a DBS battery pack, and nothing else. It is not in the signal path and has no interaction with the signal. Depending on the model of interconnect (analog or digital) or speaker cable, an existing shield or outer spiral of conductors is used as the DBS cathode by connecting it to negative (-) of the DBS battery pack. The negative side of a battery is nothing; it's just an empty reservoir. Again, there is no interaction with signal flow and no extra connections are introduced into the signal path.”

Because there is no “load” on the battery, it will last for years. A test button and LED on the DBS pack allow for easy verification of battery performance.

The benefit of maintaining a bias on the dielectric at a substantially higher voltage than is ever achieved through normal use is dramatic. Even a cable, which has the loudest music or pink noise continually traveling through it, never has a fully formed dielectric.

“If you have ever experienced the significant performance difference between a product when it was new or not used for a couple of weeks, compared to two weeks later ... simply imagine the same improvement doubled or tripled,” said Low.  “There is no new language for this phenomenon. It is simply more of the same improvement experienced to a lesser extent by leaving one’s equipment on continually. I hope when you have the opportunity to experience AudioQuest DBS cables, that your response will be the same as mine when I put the first prototype in my system; "Ahhh, thank you!"

Once again AudioQuest has identified a problem, developed an innovative solution and taken the opportunity to bring new products to market that will enhance the enjoyment of home entertainment systems.

New Products that incorporate “DBS”
The initial AudioQuest interconnects to incorporate on- board DBS are:

(Deleted so as not to promote )

All of these cables are triple balanced designs including three identical conducting paths, insuring optimum performance in single-ended (RCA) or balanced (XLR) applications.


The initial AudioQuest speaker cables to incorporate DBS on-board are:

(Again deleted )

The “DBS” battery pack is included in the pricing of these models. The final step of preparation and termination will be connection of the battery pack so the enhancements derived from “DBS” can begin before packaging and shipment.

Simply put, “DBS” offers out of the box performance exceeding that of cables that have been in constant use for many years.

=========================

Thoughts?? opinions??

[Sedona Sky Sound]

Hey John,
The pseudo-science BS in their press release seems pretty thick. It kind of reminds me of the discussion I had with the Analysis Plus Engineer at CES. Like most cable manufacturers, they like to pick and choose which electrical principle they show in their marketing brochure (and of course totally ignore all the rest that are equal or more important). However, Analysis Plus was far more convincing and forthcoming with "real" data than the rest. However, when I then asked the engineer what the science was behind their power cords, his reply was classic:

"Honestly, I don't know of any. Marketing said the customers wanted high quality power cords, so I found some nice looking parts and designed them some power cords. I can't hear or measure a difference but evidently someone can since we have been selling a lot of them."

I must commend the engineer for his honesty. The Analysis Plus speaker cables definitely gets bonus points in my book for that reason.

To me, it looks like AudioQuest has defined a "customer want" and has developed a product to meet that perceived "want". Would I sell it in my store? No, but that is just me. I know that I am a crappy salesman (it is the Engineer in my   ) but I prefer to educate my customers and help them spend their money on the basic scientific principles (room acoustics, basic cable/crossover theory, etc.). The sad part of cable design is that for a manufacturer, the ability to easily package/ship a cable or product is far more important than how it sounds. A interconnect in a widely spaced (2"+) double helix shape (something like a DNA strand) would sound fantastic but would be virtually impossible to ship. Oh, well. I fully understand where AudioQuest is coming from (especially from a marketing perspective) and my guess is that they will sell a bunch of them.            

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

[John Casler]

To me, it looks like AudioQuest has defined a "customer want" and has developed a product to meet that perceived "want".

So you're saying that you know that such a "dielectric" zigamajoo "does not" offer any improvemnt or you "assume" it doesn't.

I certainly don't know, and like you, don't want to "get behind" something that is "pure hype".

But...does it offer scientific or measurable improvement, or is it like some of the other "voodoo" products?

Is it plausible or laughable?

I bet Wayne would know, or any of our other cable/IC vendors on site.

Anyone have any other comments, or ideas?

I'm not looking for validation of the claim, as much as could it offer hearable differences?  or only imagined?

[Dan Banquer]

Audioholics.com has some articles on cables that I have found to be very interesting, and certainly not surprising. I have read through the literature from Audioquest and it is a hint of science with no substance. If you are looking for substance on cables I would recommend Reducing Noise in Electronic Equipment by Henry Ott, 2nd edition. That and a Belden catalog are all anyone needs.

[JohnR]

If they're putting an extra wire down the cable then they're increasing the capacitance from signal to earth (a battery is a low-impedance source to AC). I suppose one could argue that changing the capacitance has no effect on the signal but that would be a rather strange argument coming from a cable company...  

Synergistic Research has had something like this for years. Anyway since you're a dealer won't they just send you one to try?

[John Casler]

Anyway since you're a dealer won't they just send you one to try?

Well they don't quite do that with small fries like me.

But I did pick up the speaker cable, I needed some anyway, and I'm waiting for the battery to arrive.  

I'll report if I can hear any difference.

[JohnR]

You "picked up" the speaker cable in the seven hours between starting this thread and your post above?

[John Casler]

You "picked up" the speaker cable in the seven hours between starting this thread and your post above?

No at this point I have had the cable for over a month.  But they haven't shipped the batteries yet.

As of yet i don't really hear any special difference and I received the statement from the company a couple weeks ago and wondered if anyone on the list (technical types) thought it might make the difference.

I should get the batteries within a week or two.

[JoshK]

I have nothing worthwhile to add to this discussion, but I thought I would mention that I saw a post on a diy audio site a while back where the designer (non-pro) used a series of 9-volt batteries in a passive pre for biasing.  Very similarly implemented to this cable idea IIRC.

[Horsehead]

Hey John- what are you waiting for?  According to the ads I've read and the literature on AQ's website, all you need is "hardware store" batteries for the DBS system work. Take them out of a remote a give it try!  Let us know.

[John Casler]

Hey John- what are you waiting for?  According to the ads I've read and the literature on AQ's website, all you need is "hardware store" batteries for the DBS system work. Take them out of a remote a give it try!  Let us know.

The connection is a little "pin". so it won't connect to just any battery.

They are a month late, as they said they would have them after the San Francisco Show

Right now, the cable sounds great, but so did the rather modest Apature Black Beauty I had before.

Hopefully it will arrive in a couple days and I'll be able to see (hear) if I hear any difference. (I'm not holding my breath)

[John Casler]

Well the batteries "finally" arrived   and I did a Q&D (quick and dirty) listen to a few of my "reference" cuts.

Pre-batteries, I questioned if the Dielectric Biasing Sytem was a "possible" performance improver or not.  I was hoping that maybe someone with a good electrical backround and education might have some objective insight.

Oddly enough, yesterday I also visited a site that was talking about the JBL Horn system (K2 S9800) that sells well in Europe and Japan (I think it costs about $27,000) and "it" uses a DBS (dielectric bias system) and 9v battery in its crossover.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=K2S9800MG

If my first run through was not my imagination, I think it may have merit, at least to the subjective sonic senses, but I'd like to listen for several hours under various conditions to make sure.

Usually when I listen to music at 2:00 in the afternoon I need to set the volume control at least to 12:00 and sometimes more for critical listening.

Today 11:00 was very loud, but it was also loud without the batteries.

Plus we had a "power failure" last night and maybe they replaced a line or transformer that lets more juice (or better juice) through, who knows

Greatest improvement seemed to be in transparency, depth of soundstage and clairity of sound.  I have a greater list, but this isn't a sales promo and it was only a 1 hour session.

Since I am a dealer for Audioquest, I will perform a longer, more detailed and critical listening evaluation but will post it in the appropriate forum.

I think later this month (August 23) the LA Audio Society (Mad Dogg, SaDono, Shokunin, JohnL, myself, and maybe a few others will be getting together.

Maybe I'll bring the cable and we can all get a little bit of A/B time battery vs no battery and see if there is any subjective difference.  

[Jon L]

Some guy has a patent on this battery-biasing idea already for many years.  As far as I can tell, first audio people to do this were Omega Mikro, followed by Synergistic Research, and now Audioquest.  

It is not that difficult to implement DIY.  All you do need is 9V batteries, some wire leads, and pre-existing shield.  Some recommend using a capacitor with the battery.  

I can only speak for what it does for Omega Mikro, and it's subtle.  When you hook up the battery, you will likely not notice any appreciable difference.  However, when you live with this for awhile, and then unhook the batteries, you do hear the change.  With batteries, I hear a slight improvement in smoothness and liquidity in treble and more "open" soundstage.  Nothing home to write about in magnitude, but it's there.

[John Casler]

Hey Jon,

Thanks for the feedback.  Are you coming the 23rd?  I'll bring the cables and see what might be heard.

Again since I don't understand the process, and haven't had much time with them I can't say it is any great improvement, but yesterday my Reference cut CD was at its best

Do you know if this is like a "charging" effect?  That is, does it sort of "charge" and discharge something?   So that plugging and un-plugging would not yeild an immediate sonic result?

[Jon L]

Hey Jon,

Thanks for the feedback.  Are you coming the 23rd?  I'll bring the cables and see what might be heard.

Again since I don't understand the process, and haven't had much time with them I can't say it is any great improvement, but yesterday my Reference cut CD was at its best

Do you know if this is like a "charging" effect?  That is, does it sort of "charge" and discharge something?   So that plugging and un-plugging would not yeild an immediate sonic result?

I just realized I'm moving out of my house on August 21-22.  On top of that, I am working 23rd and 24th until like 3PM.  If I'm very lucky, I'll be able to come late like last time.  If I make it, I'll bring some tubes for Mad Dog's preamp.  I wonder what preamp he bought this time?  I have some Sylvania 6SN7 metal bases, Sylvania VT231, Kenrad, Raytheon, National Union, etc.

[Horsehead]

Hi John,

Any update on the Audioquest cables?

[John Casler]

Hi John,

Any update on the Audioquest cables?

Well we did use them Saturday, but didn't A/B them.  This is such a subtle and difficult area to assess, that It takes serious (and I mean serious) attention to very fine details.

Most of the listening using the AudioQuests was with the Zu speaker and shortly after we switched to the Refs or Biros we switched to some shorter Cardas, but never A/B'd them so it was difficult to get any idea on that one.

Today I have probably listened to Diana Krall "Live in Paris" and East of the Moon and West of the Sun over 40 times.

I was switching back and forth from the AudioQuest and some rather high quality "Black Beauty" cable I have used for my Reference cable for several years.

The Black Beauty is about 2/3 the cost and has no battery.

WHat difference was there in sound?  

Not Much

If I had to select one over the other based on this session I would probably select the AudioQuest, but the differences were extremely subtle and made me realize just what small differences you can hear and how really difficult it is to hear those "really" small differences.

The small increase in definition of the brushes on cymbals and snare, were just barely there.  Also, the string bass solo is ever so slightly a bit tighter and defined, but again I am talking differences so subtle that it takes repeated listening and A/B'ing just to validate that they exist.

So I can't say I am jumping up and down     but if I was trying to extract the maximum from a system, it would be a consideration.

Maybe on other cuts or tracks, it might be more (or less) evident.

I do my best "not" to imagine improvements and detractions, and I like to spend some time with things before I can say they are 100% better.

So that is not the best, review, but until more time is spent, and reporting is in, the AQ battery operated    cable is still under review.

Now I should also say that they do sound "GREAT", since my reference is a very good cable, but they are not "standing out" in any big way, from what I'm using.

More and further thoughts will be posted as they become available.  The only way to truly evaluate a speaker cable against another is repeated A/B'ing and it is tedious.

So as Porky used to say:

"Th-Th-Th-Th-Thats' all (for now) Folks"

[Mad DOg]

...Today I have probably listened to Diana Krall "Live in Paris" and East of the Moon and West of the Sun...

john,

it's east of the sun and west of the moon. i guess listening to the track 40 times wasn't enough since u managed to get the name mixed up, heh?  

[John Casler]

john,

it's east of the sun and west of the moon. i guess listening to the track 40 times wasn't enough since u managed to get the name mixed up, heh?

OK wiseguy, you gotta drop by and let me play it for you 40 times and see what you write    

Seriously, next time you come by we need to spend 15 minutes and I'll do a quick switch A/B so I can hear what you think.

Reviewing such subtle differences is "tough work" (Didn't Harry Pearson say that?)

[Brian Walsh]

Audioquest might want to do a patent search.    This is not new.