[Marbles]

The speakers were mine I believe.

The drivers are the K00 model and I never stuffed the ports with anything.

In my case the speakers were (and another pair of 9.0's currently are) sitting on unused nOrhs subs.  I believe that again this "bearded stand" effect has helped the bass.  In addition I have a 40HZ room mode that reinforces the bass.  I also have a pretty large room which although not necessary to develope low bass, certainly makes it easier to get low bass.


Also since I sit away from my speakers about 13' I have raised the back legs so the speakers appear to have a flat front baffle which is now on axis with my ears.  This helps the higher frequencies more than the lower ones IMO.  The way the 9.0 sits normally if you do not raise the back legs, it seems to shoot the sound over my head so that it seems I'm off axis.

In my room I could not use the nOrh subs without an active XO as the subs low pass XO only goes down to 60 hz and the speakers go low enough that the doubling of the bass does more muddying of the sound than I like.

At some point (CURT???) I will get an active XO for 2 channel and relieve the 9.0's woofer from the <80 HZ frequencies to clear up the midrange.   This is how I listen to concert DVD's and it is REALLY nice to my ears.

It also seemed that everytime I upgraded to a better amp, the bass improved.  The MF is supposed to be a nice amp, but I've never heard it so I can't comment on the bass authority.

Do the speakers put out decent bass?  For a monitor I think they do.  Would I like more bass from a speaker?  Yes!  That is one of the weaknesses keeping these from being the perfect speaker.  Other problems with these are that they weigh a ton, they are slightly back weighted making them unwieldy to place, and they are slightly colored soundwise.

So far the nOrh subs have proved to be great stands for them and I think other subs would also be great stands for them.  With an active XO and a pair of subs for stands, it could make a KILLER 3 way speaker system. IMO.

[Jay S]

My stands are like wood subs... minus the sub driver!     Really, had I had half a brain at the time I would have just had a pair of subs built.  Sure, you can't fill a sub with sand like you can my stands but, really, the cost of a couple of Shiva drivers and a bit of wiring would have been money well spent.   You can check out my stands (and pics of my room) in the gallery.

[Marbles]

Jay,

to make it easier on people, I'll post the pic here:



Nice looking "babe" in the backround  

[nathanm]

ZepDude - My experience mirrors your to a "T", except insert the 7.0 where you see 9.0.  The Norh drums' bass I would describe as the kind you hear on headphones - the frequencies are there, you can hear them, but there isn't enough 'force' behind it to properly convey the sound.  I also wonder if the marble cabinets are perhaps "too" inert and are not offering the secondary vibration that reinforces the bass that people might be used to from wood speakers.

Adding a sub surely helps, but begs the question: "why am I sinking all this money into allegedly getting the full monty of frequencies when I'm just gonna roll it off and pass it along to a sub anyway?"  If that's the case wouldn't a smaller, less expensive drum be more practical?  That's how I look at it.

I had to play mine very loud before I heard the bass I wanted.  Little woofers just don't have any slam in my opinion.  The suggestions given about setup and stands are all very good, but after all is said and done, this is not a full range speaker, it's a bookshelf with the bass that goes along with such a design. (a very fetching looking one, though! )

[wunderlast]

Yes. The bass is there, it is clean and deep without resonance. But people who want super slam, boom and thump need to buy a different speaker or add a sub.

Be careful though. Many people confuse boomy resonance with "lots of bass".

[Rocket]

hello,

i think room set up has a fair bit to do with it plus some people just like thunderous bass output.

i don't have a pair of norh speakers but have a largish book shelf speaker sitting on stands.

i have an l shaped lounge area which is used as a dedicated listening area.  i obtain more than enough bass output from my system.  i think the recessed area where i have my system helps to improve the bass.

i see lots of photos on this forum where the rooms look like they could be affecting the bass output.  just my take on it.

regards

rocket

[Guan]

I own Mini-9.0's and agree that you can only ask the 5.5" driver to do so much. But what this little driver does is provide a tuneful, tight bass that is deep enough for me not to obssess about getting a sub.

I've been to hear Jay's system quite a few times and the bass he gets from the 9.0 in his room is excellent, deeper and more solid and growly than the Mini-9.0.

However, I do hear a particular type of bass signature from the driver. The Revelator midbass driver is a long-throw type. My theory is that because the driver has to travel further back and forth to produce deep bass notes and mids (shorter strokes) at the same time, the bass has a rich, round and slightly bloomy (not boomy!) character. My concern is that if a sub is used to roll off the 9.0's woofer at 80Hz, it might totally change the character of the speaker's bass including the mids

I like to use the opening sequence from Sting's "A Thousand Years" off the Brand New Day CD to test low end extension. There is a a very deep bass that comes in at the intro and continues to give a foundation to the singing. My 9.0s as set up at my place reproduce it cleanly, and allows it to sound balanced with the rest of the recording. ...The Taylo Linbrook bass modules also did not seem to go as low.

I just played the track again on the Tyler Linbrooks, and I heard the push pull effect of the bass that was virtually non-existent the last time you heard them The drivers or XO must be breaking in. But although deep, the effect is still not as clear as with your 9.0's. That is what I mean by the 9.0's having tuneful bass!

[Jay S]

Guan,

That is great news!  You may want to get a test disk and play break in tones to accelerate the process.  The Linbrook uses such high quality parts that I do think it is capable of more than what I last heard.  

The Sting song, though, is a great way, I believe to test low end extension since a merely boomy system will not be able to reproduce it properly, particularly a clean transition to the 2nd note in the 2 note bass sequence.  Ya think I should try to play it on my RAD Micros?  The little 3" driver that could?  

[Tyson]

Jay S,
Looking at the picture posted of you 9.0's, there is a case of CD's on the floor, and the one that is empty surely is the one being played - you listening to PINK?!?!  Please say it was a sacrifice you made to appease a hottie girl!!

[Rob Babcock]

I have a pair of subs; to me no speaker that I could afford or fit into my house would be "enough" bass.  To expect the lowest reaches of a standup bass or electric synths, let alone a pipe organ, is a pretty extravagant demand for any monitor type speaker.

Personally, regardless of the price, every speaker I've ever heard was/ would be improved by adding a sub, so I'd never say spending a lotta jing on speakers then high passing 'em is a waste.

Tyson can correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think he even prefers using a sub or two with his monster RM 40's.

I've never had the chance to hear the 9.0's, so I can't comment on how their bass stacks up to other small speakers, but if you like the sound aside from the bass, adding a good sub seems like a no-brainer, unless you just don't care for subs.

BTW, I'd like to get a set of 4.0's down the road, just to see what all the "fuss" is about!

[Guan]

Ya think I should try to play it on my RAD Micros? The little 3" driver that could?

Jay: Give it a whirl...it could prove enlightening  

Nice looking "babe" in the backround

Marbles: That's Jay's lovely wife. She's real NICE

[Zep Dude]

nathanm - you describe very well what I was experiencing.  Lack of impact.  It appears from several of the other posters that this may simply be characteristic of the speakers.  I'm very curious to check for linearity down low as well as their overall frequency response in my space.  While I'm at it I'm going to check all the drivers for absolute and relative phase just to make sure everything is hooked up correctly.  I'll also spend some time moving some of the panels around to try to optimize for these.

For my purposes, recording and mixing audio, I'm looking for something with a little slam down low (but not muddy or overblown).  In order to EQ and set the relative levels of bass and kick (and in general, balance the lows correctly) we go by sound as well as "chest impact".  Some engineers even visually check the excursion of the drivers.  This is how we get records to really pop down low without blowing your drivers out.  For some reason, it's just harder to get this right on speakers that have overly "polite" bass.   I was encouraged to try the 9.0's based on the fact that many reviews, including TNT's,  make it a point  to mention their great bass response (and also by the fact that Marbles had his for sale!).  Therefore I was expecting a little more punch down low.

Well, I've already said more than I wanted to.  I don't want to make any accusations against  what I consider to be very good speakers until I've had the chance to really test things out thoroughly -it could simply be an underperforming driver, incorrect wiring or some wierd positioning anomaly.

Nevertheless, this thread is proving  to be very informative in terms of the pro's and cons of these speakers

[Jay S]

Zep Dude,

Do keep us in the loop as to what you find, particularly about the polarity of the drivers.  It has been said before that the tweeter and woofer are wired out of phase, but not conclusively.  I also believe that there is a good opportunity to improve sound quality by putting in higher quality XO parts.  In particular, I have been told that the 3 of the capacitors as well as the resistors are not up to the level of quality of the drivers.  

And, yes, this is a great way to get a better understanding of the pros/cons of these speakers, or at least, the traits to keep in mind when matching them with equipment (including stands) as well as listening preferences.  

Guan: great description of the bass quality of the Revelator woofer!      Also, Shy enjoyed your comment!

[gonefishin]

as others have said...it's a small 5.5" woofer.  


   I have to ask...I'm a little curious what kind of recordings you do?


    thanks!

[Zep Dude]

gonefishin -I do a little bit of everything.  Last month I recorded and mixed a live Tower of Power show for a possible DVD release and mastered an EP release of a blues/rock band called Los Lonely Boys.  Kind of whatever comes up but generally pop, singer/songwriter and rock.

I'm doing a venture right now where musicians/producers can send us their tracks (usually these days they are digital)  and we'll mix them in our own high end system.  We've spent a lot of time investigating digital -why it sometimes sucks and how it can be made to sound good or at least better (especially in terms of processing like EQ, compression, reverb etc).  It's a livin'...

You can check out our site at:  www.platinummixers.com

[gonefishin]

and a cool living it is


   Do you have any professional insight into the discussion regarding soundstaging taking place in the general forum?  I provided a few links that seem to do a good job at explaining various recording techniques...but it would be great to hear from someone that actually has experience.

 thanks!

[Tyson]

I always felt the 9.0's bass was similar in effect to what I get from headphones - you can hear the bass just fine, but you don't have it thump you in the chest.  Basically this means that the speaker is tuned low, and can produce the bass sounds, but cannot move enough air to give you that percussive feel you get from big woofers.  I used my 9.0's with a pair of subs for just this reason. . .

[Jay S]

I did a listening comparison last night between my 9.0 and my Acoustic Reality Avinci 1.  It is interesting how their bass characteristics are so different in spite of sharing the same woofer and having ported cabinets.

For those not familiar with the Avinci 1, it uses the same Revelator woofer at the 9.0, plus the acclaimed Hiquphon OW1 tweeter in a small 7 liter (?) wood/MDF cabinet.  It uses high quality XO parts (Peter Thomsen the designer is very OTT when it comes to parts quality).  It is a heavy little speaker.

Back to the comparison, the Avinci has a much punchier mid bass, with greater impact and more bloom (but no boom, mind you).  It also manages to produce better pitch definition than the 9.0.  The 9.0, in comparison, clearly plays lower and tighter bass.  If you like really punchy bass, then there are speakers that do it better than the 9.0.  If you want low bass, the 9.0 does produce it.  

While I am at it, in term of overall sound, the 9.0 has a leaner, somewhat SS-like sound quality (and others have felt it could be a little on the lean side) when compared to the Avinci, which seems a bit more tubey.  Bass is a bit more bloomy and rich, the midrange and treble are warmer and somewhat darker.  The darkness sometimes comes across as a lack of transparency but somehow the Avinci manages to pass on more musical detail than the 9.0.  I don't currently use the Avinci, but I can't bear to part with it - it will likely lie in hibernation until I can put together another system where it will play a starring role.  

By the way, this comparison leads me to think that the parts in the XO of the 9.0 may be limiting its ability to pass on musical detail to the same extent as the Avinci.  While it has been said that the Bennic capacitors in the XO of the 9.0 are very good, it has also been said by others that there are other capacitors that are better (though clearly more expensive).

[HAHA]

The Avinci uses the same woofer as the mini 9.0 so it can't be compared to the 9.0 (which goes deeper).  Since the 9.0 goes deeper, you most likely get a lot of other room modes when listening.  Unless you have very good control over your room acoustics, the bass will sound very different. The Avinci will also be more colored due to the less inert wood cabinet.

[Jay S]

The Avinci uses the same woofer as the mini 9.0 so it can't be compared to the 9.0 (which goes deeper).  Since the 9.0 goes deeper, you most likely get a lot of other room modes when listening.  Unless you have very good control over your room acoustics, the bass will sound very different. The Avinci will also be more colored due to the less inert wood cabinet.

Haha,

Yes, true, deeper bass does excite more room notes.  And, I did have the 9.0 and Avinci positioned quite differently - the Avincis were much further from the back wall.  The Avinci did seem a bit colored - it really did sound sorta "tubey" but it was very pleasant.  

The Avinci, the mini 9 and the all use the Revelator 5.5" woofer.  But, you're right that the mini 9 vs Avinci is probably a more relevant comparison.  I can tell you that the mini 9 is a more neutral speaker, but I find all 3 very enjoyable and just takes a little bit of matching to get the sound "flavored" to personal tastes.