[s_cervin]

Hello,

I've got real interest in this preamp based on all the wonderful reviews, but would like to hear how some of you are handling this issue.  I'm fully aware that swapping the speaker cable leads on both speakers will do the trick, but what do you do with the HT/BP input?  I know some recordings aren't correct, but I was able to tell (barely) the difference when the wife help in blind testing the polarity this afternoon.

I'm looking to run the HT/SACD/DVD-A through this input and assume this input does not get the phase (polarity) inverted.  I don't want to change speaker leads (L&R) each time I change the music format.

How do you all manage?  Leave it alone?

Klaus made it really hard to hang up yesterday w/o buying, but need to check out a few more options this weekend.   

Thanks,
SC

[lazydays]

Hello,

I've got real interest in this preamp based on all the wonderful reviews, but would like to hear how some of you are handling this issue.  I'm fully aware that swapping the speaker cable leads on both speakers will do the trick, but what do you do with the HT/BP input?  I know some recordings aren't correct, but I was able to tell (barely) the difference when the wife help in blind testing the polarity this afternoon.

I'm looking to run the HT/SACD/DVD-A through this input and assume this input does not get the phase (polarity) inverted.  I don't want to change speaker leads (L&R) each time I change the music format.

How do you all manage?  Leave it alone?

Klaus made it really hard to hang up yesterday w/o buying, but need to check out a few more options this weekend.   

Thanks,
SC

seems like Alex sent me an email advising me to reverse my IC's on my Candela. Perhaps he has a better memory than I.
gary

[MaxCast]

reversing I/C's only swaps the left and right channels.
Phase has to be done at the speaker.

[bunky]

 i switched my phase at the Loudspeakers. why would you want to bypass the Mu follower Circuitry of the Candela with your source components  ....WCW III

[s_cervin]

i switched my phase at the Loudspeakers. why would you want to bypass the Mu follower Circuitry of the Candela with your source components  ....WCW III

I have HT and 2 channel in same system and for movies would be using the pre/pro line out to the preamp.  Would not want to send that signal through the pre and burn tube life while watching a chick flick with the wife.

Still not sure what I'll do.  May just need to get the Tempest pre, but then really what's the point.  Maybe I just need a phase inverting DAC to put in the chain to fix it???

SC

[rosconey]

phase may not be inverted when the ht bypass is used-call sanata klause

[lazydays]

explain why a preamp inverts the phase in the first place. Looks to me like it would have been easilly corrected at the output stage of the preamp circut. Conrad Johnsons were my first trip into the land of inverted phase, and I remember well doing the speaker cable switch (they still are switched out by the way). Alex sent me an email, and I swapped the IC's. It did make a difference. So what does all this lead up to with me? More confusion! Guess maybe I'll just give it a listen in both modes of the grand art of swapping cables tomorrow evening while i do the hated task of wrapping presents. Still it looks to me like an IC swap would solve this whole quagmire as the amp don't care if it's a right or left channel. If this is an imaging factor, I think I have it right. Cause everything is in the right relationship on my studio recordings.
     Assumming that I stay away from the Jim Beam tomorrow night, I'll make a post of my findings. But first I have to figure out what I'll use as a reference recording. Right now it looks like Frank Glover's Politico or Steve Allee's New York In The Fifties as I know where everybody was placed in these recordings very well.
gary

[lazydays]

phase may not be inverted when the ht bypass is used-call sanata klause

and please do explain your thoughts
glt

[ezza8]

phase may not be inverted when the ht bypass is used-call sanata klause

I have the Candela with HT bypass, and have the same dilemma. Discussions with Alex a couple of months ago indicated that the signal  is "in phase" (not inverted) in HT mode.

At the moment, I just leave the polarity inverted at the speaker level for  SACD/DVD-A/HT. Can't be bothered  changing all the time. Less than optimal situation, but a small price to pay for a wonderful sounding pre-amp.     

[lazydays]

phase may not be inverted when the ht bypass is used-call sanata klause

I have the Candela with HT bypass, and have the same dilemma. Discussions with Alex a couple of months ago indicated that the signal  is "in phase" (not inverted) in HT mode.

At the moment, I just leave the polarity inverted at the speaker level for  SACD/DVD-A/HT. Can't be bothered  changing all the time. Less than optimal situation, but a small price to pay for a wonderful sounding pre-amp.     

As you may well know I did a test just to what happens when cables are moved around from connection to connection. There'll be three parts to this test, so bear with me here.
1. this is the base line setup. I listened to this with Steve Allee's CD, and Frank Smith's
    new CD. Speaker cables are phased as labled on the amp, and all IC's were found
    as labled. At one time I swapped the IC's to the amp, and they have not been
    changed all thru this test, but will swap them when I make the change over to the
    Extreme Monos.
                           Equipment list of items used in this test:
                                    (note I didn't not opt to play any analog or SACD)
                           amp: Anthem 40watt tubed amp (very long in the tooth)
                       preamp: Candela
                     speakers: Meadowlark Kestrel Hot Rods setting on concrete pads
                        source: Jolida CD100A tubed preamp
                            IC's: preamp to amp / MIT 850 (think the number is right)
                                   cd player / MIT?
                                   speakers / Cardas 6 1/2 foot bi-wire with spades at each end
 
*Base line test:
I am quite familure with this setup, and most who have heard it liked it. The speakers about seven feet apart, with about 5 degrees toe in. I really like the speakers, and can see little need for better ones. The rest of the quipment is pretty much strait forward, so I'll not get into that.
    The sound stage is nice and big, but always wanted more out of it. Blamed the amp for this. Had a Sonic Frontiers amp before that, and there actually was little difference between the two. Sold it to buy some more equipment. So much for this part!
*Test One:
Played Frank Smith's new CD thru most of this test.
I swapped the IC's at the preamp, and found the sound stage tobe smaller. The bass was much tighter (two different electric basses [ one is a seven string and the other is a five string]). Bass moved to center stage, but should be a little to the left of center. Charlie Smith's hollow body electric guitar had a nice sound, but was to the left of center a few feet (should be slightly to the right by about three or four feet) Sax had a compressed sound. Did not like this setup at all!
*Test two:
same CD & source
swapped speaker cables, but left IC's as they were in test one. Much bigger sound! More open and involving. Drums were noticably better. Sax has more range and size, and is slightly to the right of center as it should have been. Bass is in the correct location to the left of center, and the guitar has moved right of center (maybe too much). Alto vocals are much more open just as the lady really is. Maybe some more range in them as well as being slightly more transparent. They seem tobe slightly fragile, and are very pretty. Key boards are fine, but too close to center (will run this by Steve and Frank next week) and almost mono in sound. This may well be in the way the music was mastered.
changed music to Steve Allee's New York In The Fifties
    Now everything is in the right place except key boards. Too close to center! Tenor sax is also too close to center, and maybe off location five feet. Drums are a little too close to center, but really sound right. Not perfect, but I liked it. Most folks would not catch this error unless you happen to hear it live (I have several times).
Test Three:
same music
Swapped the speaker cables. Piano is a little better but still out of location. Tenor sax is right where it should be along with Griffen's drum set. His brass is right on. Trombone is very, very nice (Vincent Gardner). This setup is the best yet.
    Did not like the was the keyboards were comming thru, so I played around with the toe in on the speakers. Removed most of it, and this alone made a big difference. This setup is good, but of course not perfect.
Test Four:
same cd
Out of a whim I swapped the cd cables at the source. Piano moved center stage, but the sound quality is there. The rest of the instruments just got better. The is easilly the best sound yet. Trombone is more open and maybe slightly more transparent. Upright bass has suddenly made itself known to the listener. Sound is bigger and has a much better musicality. Seems tobe a little more depth to the sound stage. This is going to stay that way (might try swapping the preamp IC's one more time). S.A. are going to discuss the piano location when it was miced. I know he will not play a piano to the right of stage center and shys away from center stage. Speakers have never sounded this good.
    All these little tests have now opened a new bag of worms for me, and will be working with it for the next few weeks till my new speaker cables show up on my door step (another hint).
    Now there will be some more changes made in the next week or two. Going back to my favorite Synergistics IC's and maybe the bi-wire set of cables I have from them as well. In the past I've found Synergistics cables to really work well with tubes. So we'll see.
gary

[Dennis Gardner]

lazydays,

Phase isn't left and right reversal. It is + and - reversal within the circuit for both channels. This is only as issue if the speakers are not in phase with the center and surrounds when used in a multi-channel rig.

Again, it isn't about swapping ICs, its about the + and - (center and shield) being reversed in the connection as compared to a normal circuit.

Your testing seems to be focused on the left/right swap.

DG

[lazydays]

lazydays,

Phase isn't left and right reversal. It is + and - reversal within the circuit for both channels. This is only as issue if the speakers are not in phase with the center and surrounds when used in a multi-channel rig.

Again, it isn't about swapping ICs, its about the + and - (center and shield) being reversed in the connection as compared to a normal circuit.

Your testing seems to be focused on the left/right swap.

DG

none of this this makes a lick of sense, and I'm doing no more cable swaps. It sounds right now.
gary

[rosconey]

its swapping sides on speaker cables-been that way since the first one aa

[lazydays]

its swapping sides on speaker cables-been that way since the first one aa

I'm going to remove the Cardas cables as well as the MIT interconnects from the system later in the week. I'll try the positive and negative swapping then, but doubt I'll hear any real difference. The biggest difference I heard was in swapping IC's not speaker cables around anyway. But guess it could well be a quagmile of completely miss landed cable ends.
gary

[lazydays]

its swapping sides on speaker cables-been that way since the first one aa

I'm going to remove the Cardas cables as well as the MIT interconnects from the system later in the week. I'll try the positive and negative swapping then, but doubt I'll hear any real difference. The biggest difference I heard was in swapping IC's not speaker cables around anyway. But guess it could well be a quagmile of completely miss landed cable ends.
gary

well I finally installed my mono blocks in the down stairs system, and wired them exactly as you all spoke of. They sound horrible at best! Yes the sound stage is wider and deeper with better imaging. But there's absolutly little if any bass. The treble sounds like it's got a reverb unit attached to it. With the exception of the preamp to amp IC's everything else is the same. Then to top it all off I have a constant hiss going thru the system (not a hum, but a tape like hiss). Cannot swap the IC to the amp because I don't have another long enough, and all this leads into another delima. At the rear of the two amps there are two places to plug the speaker wires into. One side has two RCA jacks and an XLR input near it. The other side has nothing but two RCA outputs. I used these two. Could I be on the wrong side? I used a pair of cardas bi-wire speaker cables that I happen to like they way they sound. Of course I put the high marked wires on the tweeter side of the speakers, and phased them as marked on the speaker. So I pretty much am satisfied that I've got that part right.
    I do know the constant hiss is comming from either the preamp or both the amps at the same time. I've turned off all the sources, and with just the amps and preamp on it's there. But I don't really think it's in the two amps at the same time (unless it's from the house wiring), so I'm pointing my finger at the preamp. There's always been a very slight hum in the system if you put your ear up against the speakers, and seems to be more pronounced with the phono stage turned on (has a weak 6ER5 tube).
    Now when I broke those two monos in I used a B&K tuner / preamp combo, and the same pairs of connections as I do now. The system was very quiet, but all connections went thru a strip surge protector. Later I put the four tube preamps in front of the amps for an hour or two each. All was well, and there was a ton of bass comming from a pair of Polk RT 800 speakers out of my HT system. As well as no hiss! The mono blocs have about four hundred fifty hours on them, give or take fifty hours. When I fired the system up this afternoon they had been on for about an hour, so I wasn't asking for much out of them. Still I thought there should have been more than that.
     Being as I can't swap cables (that would have been the first thing I would do), I think I'll reinstall the Quicksilver preamp because it's a known quantity (although the Candela worked flawlessly) to see what happens. If there's no change I'll install a third amp (Adcom). Nothing in this system has acted like this before, and I've told you pretty much in detail as to what I've done.
Tomorrow's gonna be a long day
gary

[lazydays]

its swapping sides on speaker cables-been that way since the first one aa

I'm going to remove the Cardas cables as well as the MIT interconnects from the system later in the week. I'll try the positive and negative swapping then, but doubt I'll hear any real difference. The biggest difference I heard was in swapping IC's not speaker cables around anyway. But guess it could well be a quagmile of completely miss landed cable ends.
gary

well I finally installed my mono blocks in the down stairs system, and wired them exactly as you all spoke of. They sound horrible at best! Yes the sound stage is wider and deeper with better imaging. But there's absolutly little if any bass. The treble sounds like it's got a reverb unit attached to it. With the exception of the preamp to amp IC's everything else is the same. Then to top it all off I have a constant hiss going thru the system (not a hum, but a tape like hiss). Cannot swap the IC to the amp because I don't have another long enough, and all this leads into another delima. At the rear of the two amps there are two places to plug the speaker wires into. One side has two RCA jacks and an XLR input near it. The other side has nothing but two RCA outputs. I used these two. Could I be on the wrong side? I used a pair of cardas bi-wire speaker cables that I happen to like they way they sound. Of course I put the high marked wires on the tweeter side of the speakers, and phased them as marked on the speaker. So I pretty much am satisfied that I've got that part right.
    I do know the constant hiss is comming from either the preamp or both the amps at the same time. I've turned off all the sources, and with just the amps and preamp on it's there. But I don't really think it's in the two amps at the same time (unless it's from the house wiring), so I'm pointing my finger at the preamp. There's always been a very slight hum in the system if you put your ear up against the speakers, and seems to be more pronounced with the phono stage turned on (has a weak 6ER5 tube).
    Now when I broke those two monos in I used a B&K tuner / preamp combo, and the same pairs of connections as I do now. The system was very quiet, but all connections went thru a strip surge protector. Later I put the four tube preamps in front of the amps for an hour or two each. All was well, and there was a ton of bass comming from a pair of Polk RT 800 speakers out of my HT system. As well as no hiss! The mono blocs have about four hundred fifty hours on them, give or take fifty hours. When I fired the system up this afternoon they had been on for about an hour, so I wasn't asking for much out of them. Still I thought there should have been more than that.
     Being as I can't swap cables (that would have been the first thing I would do), I think I'll reinstall the Quicksilver preamp because it's a known quantity (although the Candela worked flawlessly) to see what happens. If there's no change I'll install a third amp (Adcom). Nothing in this system has acted like this before, and I've told you pretty much in detail as to what I've done.
Tomorrow's gonna be a long day
gary

swapped the leads at the speakers, and the glare seems to have died down a bit, but it's still there. There's a hint of bass comming thru now, but not much. After reading the owner's manual for the speakers, I've also come to the conclusion that they are way out of focus. Need to be moved back a couple feet (where the amps are setting now <g>).
May have to bite the bullet and buy a 3 meter IC, or else stack the amps and get by with a 1.5 meter cable. The Jolida CD player is virtually unlistenable right now, but the Marantz 8260 is better (still sounds bad). have also come to the conclusion that I have to get the amps off the the wall plugs, and into something that puts out clean power. So I may bite the bullet and get one of the high current power conditioners that only have two outlets.
gary

[lazydays]

well I have the noise problem isolated, but have no idea how to get around it. Seems quieter today than yesterday, and one speaker has more of a light hum now than a hiss. I had a major hum problem with my Conrad Johnson preamp running out of the same outlet several years back (the Sonograph as well). Cleaned it up with a power conditioner. See the need for a couple longer power cords and another conditioner.
    Did a lot of playing with the speakers today, and found a couple major problems in the placement. Bass is now much better. A little harsh, and maybe a tad edgy. I fully expected that part as my speakers are efficient, and actually were designed for tubes. I find myself running the volume at about the 20% mark! Sound is extremely clean and fast. Amps are running warmer than when I had the hooked up before, but they are not much more than a 110 degrees at the most. I now kinda wonder how much effect my starting to play music immediately instead of waiting a day or so for the caps to charge had to do with the way this sounded. Think now I need to move the amps on top of each other, and move the speakers further away a couple more feet with two or three degrees more toe in.
     Now the wierd thing with all this is that the Jolida CD player had a sound like a cheap Sony (tin can). Today it's almost back to normal with absolutly no changes made. My 8260 Marantz is somewhat better as well, but nothing like the changes made in the Jolida. I have not installed the Quicksilver preamp to further isolate the noise as I think I've found it. Lastly the amps are being fed via a Synergistics Alpha IC, and have found in the past that this cable can be a touch bright (why I don't know as I have many others in my two systems).
gary

[lazydays]

This is the last post in this string concerning the downstairs system.
    The system was once again reconfigured Saturday afternoon. Moved the two amps on top of each other, and replaced the preamp IC's as well as the speaker cables. This allowed me to be able to set the speakers back about two feet further away. Replaced the IC with an MIT (one meter length instead of the two and a half meter Synergistic Alpha). The Cardas speaker cables was replaced with a ten foot long Synergistic bi-wire cable setup. The amps are now plugged into a power strip (elcheapo at that), but the preamp remains in the line conditioner setup.
     The amps were sounding better before I moved things around, but there still was a lack of bass. There is more bass than I've ever had before now. Very nice and tight. I think the system would be better if I could bring the speakers about two feet closer together, but there just ain't any room between them! Piano music sounds ever so slightly bright when played on both cd players. Find myself chasing that elusive two octaves again with the tenor sax. I think it's there, but can't get it out of a cd player yet. Seems to be there when playing an LP. See cable changes here. Imaging is there, as well as being able to pick out individual instruments.
     Now the bad part:
The hiss has now changed over to a very low level hum. Can't seem to get away from it. I did find a bad IC, and sure I had the problem solved. I do know for sure that it's between the preamp and amps. With the preamp turned off the system is dead silent. Could be a weak tube I suppose. But I think it's in the cables.
more on this later
gary

[lazydays]

I've now kicked the hiss and hum out of the system. It was comming from the power cord feeding the Candela. Changed it out for a Stealth that I had used to feed my tube amp with. Things are now on the upswing!
gary

[lazydays]

to add to the above post, as I've finally taken time to play the system since the power cord change.
     There seems to be an across the board improvement in sound quality. Most is rather subtle, but still noticeable with less glare (as in being bright).  Yo Yo Ma's cello is something I've come to love, and now it's even better and bigger. I don't think the music is faster, but it's clearer with more open upper mids and highs. Think I'm onto something.
gary