Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary

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Zero

Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« on: 19 Dec 2006, 11:41 pm »
edit: see preliminary in the Jan. issue of http://www.affordableaudio.org/
« Last Edit: 1 Jan 2007, 08:57 pm by A6M-ZERO »

Zero

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #1 on: 19 Dec 2006, 11:42 pm »
see above
« Last Edit: 1 Jan 2007, 08:57 pm by A6M-ZERO »

Zero

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #2 on: 19 Dec 2006, 11:48 pm »
Ditto
« Last Edit: 1 Jan 2007, 08:57 pm by A6M-ZERO »

Mike Dzurko

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #3 on: 20 Dec 2006, 08:25 pm »
Very nicely done Sean! I certainly look forward to more. Kudos to Digital Sound for being cool enough to alllow you to bring in these darn consumer-direct brands  8)

"We were lost in the music, and that’s what it’s all about."

Well put, that indeed is what it's about  :D



gme109

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #4 on: 21 Dec 2006, 01:44 am »
A short Intro

I’ve had a massive grin on my face lately. It’s not from spiked egg nog and it’s certainly not because I just saved money by switching to Geico. Instead, it has something to do with two “tiny titans” that have been treating these ears to incredible sound over the past few weeks. I’ve owned a lot of small speakers through the years, enough to justify a small rap sheet. Still, there is something so intensely special about these speakers that I’ve been inspired to stretch beyond casual abstract discussion with my audio comrades to pick up the virtual pen and pad in effort to create public interest. But there is just one problem;

I am nobody in the eyes of everybody. How much weight can the word of an unknown figure carry in the vast sea of audio heads? I leave that to time and to all of you; the collective whole. Without delay, I bring to you the preliminary of my upcoming separate reviews of two mighty monitors;


Compromise be Damned

“Life is about compromises.”  We’ve all heard the cliché and we’ve all also experienced it first hand. As a child, there were days when I would begrudgingly play games I could care less for, all for the sake of being fair and keeping my friends happy. For a 10 year old boy, that was about as noble of an act as one could possibly perform short of giving away a prized toy. And so it was; a song that continued there on in. For most of us, compromise hits a crescendo when you begin sharing space, time, and yourself with an individual you proudly claim as your better half. Case in point; a week ago I was at a friend’s house and took note of his brand new PDP-6070 Pioneer Elite plasma television. “Nice screen” I said, “How much did it run you”?  Being the geek that I am, I already knew the retail of this bad-boy. He quoted the price printed on the receipt. I chuckled and asked the same question again, this time leading my eyes towards his wife who was off in the distance, busily prepping the kitchen. As I looked on, I noticed something different. “Are those new marble countertops”? To which he replied; “Yes, that was my contingency fee”. Ouch!

That may sound like an ideal barter to some, but the bottom line is that anyone who has turned hi-fi stereo into a serious hobby is no stranger to the notion of compromise. The best we can do is work to eliminate the vices that prevent our ears entry into the gates of our own sonic utopia. In doing so, we all must choose a path. I myself favor any piece of electronics that can convey the fundamental spirit and soul of the music. In other words, its gotta have dat’ rhythm. You could give me a speaker with ruler flat frequency response that boasts a high pedigree, but if it’s got no swing, I’ll show you one of the worlds most expensive cat scratching posts.

I’ve been a full-range guy at heart, but by proxy of space, it is high performance monitors (bookends for you fogies) that these walls are familiar with. In fact, my mainstay music makers are a pair of slim-line two way “towers” from the fine folk at Totem Acoustic. This life-style has not only made me a bona-fied believer of near-field listening, but has also convinced me that a well designed two-way speaker is the ideal solution for many practical applications! The truth is that many people buy too much speaker for their room, often resulting in a diffuse, incoherent and confusing sound. Today, there’s an abundance of small ultra long-throw woofers with mind bending excursion, great heat dissipation, along with low audible distortion to choose from. The old playbook that suggests it takes a fridge sized cab with a multitude of drivers to move a convincing amount of air has been challenged. Old physics be damned – those of us with a full range appetite but find ourselves limited to pint sized accommodations have hope after-all. Over the course of this past year, my own pursuits led me towards two individuals that have put their all into giving the community not just a solid solution, but one that wont have you digging into your retirement fund.


Stone Image Audio

There are a few savvy explorers that trove the audio under-ground in search for difficult to obtain products in hopes of happening across a real shinning diamond. If you are the type to make glances at products that are widely unknown by the common audiophile – than Stone Image may be your huckleberry. Stone Image was founded by Jimmy R, an entrepreneur, hobbyist, topped off with a healthy mix of engineering back-round. Before Stone Image Audio was even a concept, Jimmy found that his own nirvana involved the legendary full range Martin Logan CLS electrostatic speakers, driven by an all tube system and an analog source – of course. Sublime as it was, space saving and economic it wasn’t. He set out to find a more compact solution and while he discovered the allure of compact monitors, he still found himself empty handed.  So Jimmy did what any talented individual would do when he couldn’t find what he was looking for; he built it himself.  What he ended up with was an ultra compact two-way monitor that could cause some serious unrest in the fiercely contested market of stand mounts set in and under the 2k benchmark. Ready to take the title belt; enter the Rothschilde A2 at $1335/pair.


Audio Concepts, Inc

It has been a long time since the founder of ACI, Mike Dzurko was in a garage pumping out hand-crafted transducers. That’s because ACI has been offering speakers without a middle man for 30 years – that’s quite a bit longer than I’ve been on this planet folks. Music has always been the driving fundamental behind each and every design he creates, but that’s something you would expect from a man who grew up around music, is a musician and passed off the traits to his own children. ACI even shares real estate with a fully functioning recording studio headed by one of his teenage heroes, Jeff Cozy. His yardstick isn’t a spinning CD or record, it’s the real thing. Mike’s intense exposure to all walks of music and his skill as an engineer have come together to produce amazing products through the years. Still, he wanted to make something really special in his latest iteration of Sapphire. He decided on an oddly shaped two-way monitor that would incorporate everything he has learned and believes in. This speaker was released in early 2005 and has since earned many accolades and awards from major esteemed publications, not to mention being the recipient of raving reviews throughout the audio community. Enter the Sapphire XL at $1500/pair ($1700 in piano gloss finish).


Heard the Sapphire XL at the RMAF for the first time, one of the best sounds at the show. The midrange totally captivated me, well done Mike.

MaxCast

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #5 on: 21 Dec 2006, 12:29 pm »
Very nice.  I wish I could have been there.  Would loved to have heard these two speakers.

duggie

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #6 on: 21 Dec 2006, 02:20 pm »
very nice.  i also appreciate small monitors.  tho, i am presently getting into low-power amps w/hi-efficiency speakers.  however, i am not sure i will ever sell my relatively inefficient tiny tots - the proac tablette reference 8 signatures.  in a smaller room, it is difficult (if not impossible?) to beat a pair of quality small monitors.  but the sound the diminutive proacs will throw, even into a huge room (w/subwoofers of course), will absolutely astound you.  a must-listen; add these to your tiny-titan list.

Mike Dzurko

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #7 on: 21 Dec 2006, 03:17 pm »
Very nice.  I wish I could have been there.  Would loved to have heard these two speakers.

We should figure out a way for you to hear the XLs one of these days . . .

Are you going to watch the game tonight? I'd have to head to the local bar if I wanted to watch, and that ain't going to happen tonight  :(

Zero

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #8 on: 21 Dec 2006, 03:37 pm »
Duggie,

Pro Ac made a real gem in the Ref 8 Sigs.  I never did own a set for myself, hence why its not listed above,  but I have heard them on a few occasions. Those tots threw out a very enveloping sound. In fact, this exact model was auditioned and evaluated by Jimmy at Stone Image. Another monitor he felt was great but didn't quite slice the bread to his ears was the Merlin TSM-M - a speaker I have not had the pleasure of listening to.

Cheers, and thanks for the comments all!

« Last Edit: 21 Dec 2006, 05:14 pm by A6M-ZERO »

Merle

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #9 on: 21 Dec 2006, 04:01 pm »
I'm currently using a pair of Veanna Acoustic Haydn's. I won't go on and on but I do think they are one of the most MUSICAL small speakers I've owned. They also sound MUCH bigger than they actually are. For what it's worth, they also have one of the best finishes on them I've seen [mine are gloss piano black]. Wonder how they would fare against these two mini's? Frankly, I'll be keeping the Haydn's.

Zero

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #10 on: 21 Dec 2006, 05:21 pm »
Merle,

The Haydn's are gorgeous!  :o. For the record; I think Vienna got it right the first time, before the Grand.

As an aside;

Two years ago I flirted with the notion of selling a pair of speakers I absolutely adored. I had no reason, other than wanting to try something exotic for exotics sake. I went so far as to list them on audiogon. What I did not expect was the number of E-mail's I had received from previous owners who had traveled the path before me; warned me so I would not make the same error they did. That error is one even the best of us can make. Driven by the lust to have something better, we part with our gear in search for the holy grail only to find that we had it all along. Glad you figured that riddle out.


Mike,

Digital Sound went beyond the call. I mean, letting a non-paying customer into your stoor to man handle up to 20 thousand dollar speakers for hours on in - all the while listening to not one but two pairs of consumer direct speakers? Did I mention I was fed pizza and beer? Yep - they are definately one are a classic example of how a GREAT dealer should be.

duggie

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #11 on: 22 Dec 2006, 04:47 pm »
yes, these are gems, for sure.  proac's 1sc's get all the accolades - well deserved, imo - but the cheaper ref 8 sigs have a more open & airy top end, & are all-around better speakers, imo.  they only give up a few hz at the very bottom.  a complete non-issue when using subs.   aa

Duggie,

Pro Ac made a real gem in the Ref 8 Sigs.  I never did own a set for myself, hence why its not listed above,  but I have heard them on a few occasions. Those tots threw out a very enveloping sound. In fact, this exact model was auditioned and evaluated by Jimmy at Stone Image. Another monitor he felt was great but didn't quite slice the bread to his ears was the Merlin TSM-M - a speaker I have not had the pleasure of listening to.

Cheers, and thanks for the comments all!



Eric

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #12 on: 9 Feb 2007, 08:01 pm »
Nice review

lazydays

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #13 on: 10 Feb 2007, 07:15 pm »
the first set of monitors I ever bought were Polk RT 25's after Tellig gave them a rave review. One of my sons still uses them in is small system. But I moved on into a pair of real Dennis Had Soliloquy 5.0's. Drive them with a pair of Wave Eights in my bedroom. Think Wave twentys would be a better match. Still they play louder than I can stand in a 13' x 17' bedroom that has 10' ceilings. At one time I tried using a Paradigm powered sub with them, and hated it from the get go.
gary

duggie

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #14 on: 11 Feb 2007, 03:17 am »
the first set of monitors I ever bought were Polk RT 25's after Tellig gave them a rave review. One of my sons still uses them in is small system. But I moved on into a pair of real Dennis Had Soliloquy 5.0's. Drive them with a pair of Wave Eights in my bedroom. Think Wave twentys would be a better match. Still they play louder than I can stand in a 13' x 17' bedroom that has 10' ceilings. At one time I tried using a Paradigm powered sub with them, and hated it from the get go.
gary
the only way to successfully integrate a sub w/speakers, imo, is to use an outboard active x-over, and two subs.  you want stereo subs for proper soundstaging, & best integration of bass in the room.  and, you want to take advantage of eliminating the main speaker's need to see any signal below 60-80hz...

Mike Dzurko

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #15 on: 11 Feb 2007, 10:21 pm »
the only way to successfully integrate a sub w/speakers, imo, is to use an outboard active x-over, and two subs.  you want stereo subs for proper soundstaging, & best integration of bass in the room.  and, you want to take advantage of eliminating the main speaker's need to see any signal below 60-80hz...

Duggie:

I gotta disagree on this one. We've got thousands of happy sub owners who've successfully integrated either a single or pair of subs . . .  yes, I agree a stereo pair is the gold standard if funds and space permit. More important however is the sonic quality of the sub itself, a lot of folks try integrating a sub that really isn't ideal for music and wonder why it sounds less than great.  Also, there is a real learning curve in learning how to integrate subs, you have to take the time to experiment w/ the controls and placement if possible.

duggie

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #16 on: 12 Feb 2007, 01:09 pm »
the only way to successfully integrate a sub w/speakers, imo, is to use an outboard active x-over, and two subs.  you want stereo subs for proper soundstaging, & best integration of bass in the room.  and, you want to take advantage of eliminating the main speaker's need to see any signal below 60-80hz...

Duggie:

I gotta disagree on this one. We've got thousands of happy sub owners who've successfully integrated either a single or pair of subs . . .  yes, I agree a stereo pair is the gold standard if funds and space permit. More important however is the sonic quality of the sub itself, a lot of folks try integrating a sub that really isn't ideal for music and wonder why it sounds less than great.  Also, there is a real learning curve in learning how to integrate subs, you have to take the time to experiment w/ the controls and placement if possible.

hi mike,

sorry, if i didn't make myself clear - don't misunderestimate me!   :green:  i agree w/you it's possible to have good results w/only one sub.  i have heard it myself.  but, assuming the quality of the subs are equal, you will always  do better with two subs.  that's my only point.  and, re: space or funding issues, assuming the quality is equal, (not necessarily the quantity), i would always take two smaller subs over one larger one any day.

and, as far as integrating subs into a system, it is actually easier to integrate two subs into a space than one, imo...

ymmv...

Mike Dzurko

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #17 on: 12 Feb 2007, 10:31 pm »

hi mike,

sorry, if i didn't make myself clear - don't misunderestimate me!   :green:  i agree w/you it's possible to have good results w/only one sub.  i have heard it myself.  but, assuming the quality of the subs are equal, you will always  do better with two subs.  that's my only point.  and, re: space or funding issues, assuming the quality is equal, (not necessarily the quantity), i would always take two smaller subs over one larger one any day.

and, as far as integrating subs into a system, it is actually easier to integrate two subs into a space than one, imo...

ymmv...

Duggie:

We're on the same page now . . .  I misunderestimate people all the time  :lol:

Eric

Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #18 on: 13 Feb 2007, 05:10 pm »

hi mike,

sorry, if i didn't make myself clear - don't misunderestimate me!   :green:  i agree w/you it's possible to have good results w/only one sub.  i have heard it myself.  but, assuming the quality of the subs are equal, you will always  do better with two subs.  that's my only point.  and, re: space or funding issues, assuming the quality is equal, (not necessarily the quantity), i would always take two smaller subs over one larger one any day.

and, as far as integrating subs into a system, it is actually easier to integrate two subs into a space than one, imo...

ymmv...

Duggie:

We're on the same page now . . .  I misunderestimate people all the time  :lol:

In fact one might say you resemble that remark

griller

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Re: Two Tiny Titans – A Preliminary
« Reply #19 on: 12 Mar 2007, 08:18 pm »
I read your Affordable Audio review. I prefer a neutral speaker to one that is at all etched or bright etc. If I read between the lines, sounds like the Sapphire XL would meet my needs.  Did you end up liking the XLs enough to buy the review pair? Just trying to get as clear on these as I can before I pull out the Amex