A question for the wine drinkers

TF1216 · « **on:** 19 Dec 2006, 02:59 pm »

Hey all,

I would like to get my mother another wine club membership for Christmas. Last year she was a member with wine.com. Any suggestions of wine clubs I can sign her up with? She loves red wine only. Any help would be so great!

Thank you,
Tyler

gooberdude · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:04 pm »

I signed up for a wine of the month club when i was 11...i think it was the 'California Wine of the Month Club' my membership lasted 2 long years! i got busted when a baseball tournament ran long one afternoon and i wasn't home in time to get the box!

My folks are bigtime wine buyers and drinkers...my real suggestion is to go & buy 1 wine magazine,
there should be ads for a few of the wine-of-the-month clubs. Or, do a google search.

sts9fan · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:04 pm »

I can never figure out why the lack of love for whites

woodsyi · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: sts9fan on 19 Dec 2006, 03:04 pm

I can never figure out why the lack of love for whites

Because you actually have to pay more to get a good white wine then the reds. At comparable prices, you can get much more flavor out of reds than whites.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: sts9fan on 19 Dec 2006, 03:04 pm

I can never figure out why the lack of love for whites

I just find that beverages that are drunk cold are harder to get a sense of their detail and sophistication versus a red. Much like Home Theater vs. 2-channel music IMHO...

sts9fan · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:23 pm »

I totally disagree with the price argument. There are just as many wonderful whites under $20 as reds. There are just a lot crappy ones also. Also slightly chilled if not cold and it actually helps bring out the flavor.

woodsyi · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:42 pm »

Quote from: tf121682 on 19 Dec 2006, 02:59 pm

Hey all,

I would like to get my mother another wine club membership for Christmas. Last year she was a member with wine.com. Any suggestions of wine clubs I can sign her up with? She loves red wine only. Any help would be so great!

Thank you,
Tyler

I don't really like those wine pushers who send you leftover wines every month. Most wines that they select generally don't excite me. I would rather develop ties with local and internet sellers who will contact you with wines when deals come up rather than be tied down to unknown wine every month. These guys seem reasonable in your area (?) http://www.winesociety.us/index.html. I also deal with these guys http://www.grapeswine.com/ and they have good selection and service with competitive pricing. You have to establish a relationship where the wine advisor knows what kind of taste you have to make recommendations. Good luck.

woodsyi · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:47 pm »

Quote from: sts9fan on 19 Dec 2006, 03:23 pm

I totally disagree with the price argument. There are just as many wonderful whites under $20 as reds. There are just a lot crappy ones also. Also slightly chilled if not cold and it actually helps bring out the flavor.

If you want to push that $20 envelope for something a little more refined, you have to jump up quite a bit more for the whites than reds. IMHO.

gooberdude · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:55 pm »

It is a shame that good whites cost more than good reds...i can't figure it out either.

Over t-giving i tried an Auberg chardonnay...i'm guessing from Napa. it blew away the Mer Soleil & Ferrari Corrano & other decent chards i've tried. i hate admitting i like whites - i hate it even more that the good stuff costs over $40 per bottle. I believe lots of people would really dig the great Chards if they had an occasion to sample them.....

Nice whites, like the reds, need to start off a bit chilled. The magic don't happen until it reaches room temp in your glass though.

STS9fan - have you been to a STS9 show lately? I've been a fan for the last 5 years or so, just saw them in Chicago at the Congress theatre and 'Holy Shi&' is all i can say. They've gone from super-tight to galactic...
Way back when my roommate was a promoter here & hosted a show with them at the HOB. the guys were asses, demanding vegan meals & cartons of Amer Spirit cigs - but they certainly deliver the good these days.

Carlman · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 04:29 pm »

There's a white called 'Cloudy Bay' from New Zealand that I really like.... I think it's about $25 and is the cheapest 'really good' white I've found. I'm 99% sure it's a Chardonnay.
The best red I've had is a 2001 Edgewood Estates Cabernet Sauvignon. (not any other year, btw) It's $18 and is in the same league as a Jordan or Matanzas creek... different flavor(s) but similar quality. I have yet to find a white under $20 that I like more than a few sips. There are a few Chilean reds, and a Spanish one that I've liked all around $15-25... Can't say the same for whites... Maybe I should just lower my standards.

-C

gooberdude · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 04:48 pm »

I know very little about wine, but since my folks are into it i learn by default...and sometimes consumption.

Can anyone clue me in as to why 'unfined' & 'unfiltered' wines taste the best and
are typically quite expensive?

It would seem to me that if a wine was less labor intensive to produce, it should
sell for a bit less, right? Is there more art or science involved in just letting the liquid sit in a cask?

Here in chicago, most 'unfined/unfiltered' wines on restuarant menu's start at over $150 per bottle.
Which means they go for $75 or more in the stores.

i don't mean to hijack this thread!!

matt

PhilNYC · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: gooberdude on 19 Dec 2006, 04:48 pm

Can anyone clue me in as to why 'unfined' & 'unfiltered' wines taste the best and
are typically quite expensive?

My (limited) understanding is that "fining" wines is done by adding ingredients to help stabilize some parts of the wine. Many wines can be stabilized withing fining, but it takes more time (on the order of months/years)...so they become more expensive because it takes much longer to produce the wine. The down-side to fining is that it can affect the flavor of the wine...one wine enthusiast I know said taste-wise it was akin to heating something up in the microwave oven rather than on a stove or in a regular oven....

gooberdude · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:13 pm »

hey Phil,

i think your friend is right...fined wine tastes bad to me also. too bad probably 95% of wine is fined!

My understanding is that the most common type of 'fining' is a thin waterfall of egg yolks that the wine passes through and it removes particulates. According to my folks, this is done to clarify the liquid...so it looks good and clear when in the glass.

i'm gonna ass*u*me that this is an expensive process...i've heard that a lot of other liquids are fined, not just wine.

S Clark · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:23 pm »

Fining is not especially expensive, but it can be argued that some flavor molecules are removed in the process. Fining can be done with egg whites, bentonite clays, and other flocculants to cause suspended molecules to clump and settle out. The only reason to filter wine is to hurry up the process of removing particles. Filtered wines definitely have altered taste profiles. BTW, most of the most expensive first growth Bordeaux's are fined.

gooberdude · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:43 pm »

Great info!! Is fining and filtering the same? I mean, is filtering just to remove solid particles??

makes perfect sense that if these processes speed up production then they can reduce costs. Having casks sit for 10 yrs has gotta be a burden onthe growers, especially initially. to me, the processes do remove the taste.

my next question was going to be if France 'fines'!! that's wild...

price aside, it bothers me when i go to a nice restaurant and ask for unfined/unfiltered and the waiter gives me a dumb look ('cuz they are unfamiliar). If someone was allergic to egg whites or other flocculants, they'd be screwed!

woodsyi · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: Carlman on 19 Dec 2006, 04:29 pm

There's a white called 'Cloudy Bay' from New Zealand that I really like.... I think it's about $25 and is the cheapest 'really good' white I've found. I'm 99% sure it's a Chardonnay.
The best red I've had is a 2001 Edgewood Estates Cabernet Sauvignon. (not any other year, btw) It's $18 and is in the same league as a Jordan or Matanzas creek... different flavor(s) but similar quality. I have yet to find a white under $20 that I like more than a few sips. There are a few Chilean reds, and a Spanish one that I've liked all around $15-25... Can't say the same for whites... Maybe I should just lower my standards.
-C

Try a bottle of this if you can find it down there. http://www.wineoftheweek.com/archives/wine060326.html It's a new one made probably by the same guy who made your Cloudy Bay wine. This one tastes more like old world wine (drier) than other Kiwi Sauvignon Blancs, which I think in general is a good bargain.

Carlman · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 07:53 pm »

Quote from: gooberdude on 19 Dec 2006, 05:43 pm

price aside, it bothers me when i go to a nice restaurant and ask for unfined/unfiltered and the waiter gives me a dumb look ('cuz they are unfamiliar). If someone was allergic to egg whites or other flocculants, they'd be screwed!

What's worse is a waiter that dumps the dregs into my glass while I'm still drinking it and ruins what I had.... or when they shake it... I've seen waiters pull a bottle out of a rack and flip it over. No one but no one decants a wine anywhere I go... I've pretty much stopped drinking good wines out.

-C

woodsyi · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 08:24 pm »

Quote from: Carlman on 19 Dec 2006, 07:53 pm

No one but no one decants a wine anywhere I go... I've pretty much stopped drinking good wines out.

You just have to ask for it. I ask for a bottle to be decanted when I feel like it needs breathing. Most sommeliers usually get really excited when you ask for (appropriate) decanting and I kid you not -- even food service gets better.

BTW, if you are going to be at W-A in NYC, Bull and Bear has good wine list and they decant upon request. IMHO, most red wines at restaurants are served relatively young and could use decanting and aeration before drinking.

Carlman · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 09:15 pm »

I'm staying at the W in Union Square in a week.

!!! That reminds me... I need to update the thread I started in the NY Circle... Thanks for the recommendation!

gooberdude · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 09:28 pm »

yeah, the dregs are cool to see unless they are in your teeth!!

Woodsyi is spot on that if you show a tad of vino knowledge to the sommelier the rest of the staff takes notice.

for me, letting a good old red decant is much like letting new gear or cables 'burn-in'...you can drink it right out of the bottle, but its worth the wait to get max enjoyment.

Has anyone tried any pinot noir's from the Walla Walla region in Washington state? no idea who the maker was, but i've had a few lately that compete with the good Cali stuff. My folks are quite hip to wines specifically from Spring Mtn in napa (David Arthur and the like) & for them to break out stuff from other US regions tells me somethin's goin on. they aren't snobs, i just think for folks just getting into wine its easy to gravitate toward California...

For the less expensive Australian whites, i really like Wolf Blass Reserve chards.

A question for the wine drinkers

S Clark