[inkasound]

Hi

I'm new here in Audio circle and this is my first post.
Hello to all of you outthere and thanks for keeping alive this very enjoyable hobby.
I'm looking for a new speaker for my system in the 4-6k. I used to have a Tyler Reference Monitor and I liked its sound a lot but I have decided to go with floorstanders, full range speakers this time.
Since I live overseas, I usually read a lot before taking my decision.
In my case there is no 60 day trial and return.  I know that it will be much better to actually listen to the speakers but that is very remote.

Right now I have narrowed the group to 3 speakers, The Salk HT3, The Daedalus Da-1, and the Tyler Linbrook System.

And I have some doubts. I have read here and in Audiogon that the Daedalus is one of a kind speaker, some say that it sounds a lot like "live
music", that the body it gives to a cello or piano is very rich, and the overlap crossover points it uses gives the sound a very good integration.
But in the other side , I have read that the Daedalus has a not so sharp image and not so good soundstage. How bad is his imaging and soundstage?
Also I know that the tweeters and midrange Mr Lou Hickley uses in the speaker aren't exactly esotar and seas, How this tweeters sound compare to the Scan Speak Revelator or the Ribbon used in the HT3?

As for the Salks Ht3s I have only read good things about them(and I really love their looks) but I haven't find a very good description of his sound. I have seen that a lot of people have replaced his VMPS RM40 for the Salks, I can supposse because the Salks are better overall performers but I would like to know in what areas did they outperform the RM40s?
Finally, I know the Tyler sound and I liked it so far. I have read also that the bass integration of the Tyler Linbrook System is not so good. Indeed some people prefer the Tyler Linbrook Monitors alone without their bass modules because of that issue. Does anyone can confirm this?

I listen mostly to Progressive Rock: PFM, Le Orme, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Marillion, Genesis, Yes, Gentle Giant, ELP, also seventies rock: Grateful Dead, CSNY, Guess who, The Band, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young,etc

I love voices and to reproduce it naturally with realism have been one of my goals.

My preferences in sound are, a very natural "there is" voice, big soundstage, good image,a not in your face sound, very good dynamics, low level resolution and immediacy.

My amplifier is a extremely modified Conrad Johnson MV50 connected in triode mode.

So, if anyone have listened to 2 or 3 of this speakers, I would like to know their differences in soundstage, low level information, immediacy, imaging, tonal balance.

Thanks and any help will be great.

[tvad4]

With the CJ amp, I believe in addition to the Daedalus Da-1 loudspeakers you'd be better off sticking with a high impedance (8 ohm nominal) design with a flat impedance curve, and also fairly sensitive (90+dB). Silverline Sonata II or Sonata III come to mind. Also the Living Voice Avatar OBX-R (only 6 ohm nominal, but 94 dB).

Used Sonatas would be in your price range. The Living Voice Avatar are beyond your price range, but they're an example of what to consider, IMO.

[Carl V]

My preferences in sound are, a very natural "there is" voice, big soundstage, good image,a not in your face sound, very good dynamics, low level resolution and immediacy.

My amplifier is a extremely modified Conrad Johnson MV50 connected in triode mode

Well none of those speakers are going to fit your needs & wants.
They are very fine speakers.  Altho' the Daedalus line is better
suited for your needs.  Get in Touch with Response audio.  They
have a circle here & he can answer your questions more thoroughly.
In fact I have a hunch you two may be on the same audio wavelength.

Consider SP tech AV-1 Speakers or the upmarket/modified Response
Audio  Bella AV-1.  There is a used pair available for $1,000.00 USD.
I own that c-j amp  actually 2 of 'em (MV-52) as well as modified MV75s.
I'm sorta curious about your triode modification that is unique.
I also own the SP-AV-2 with the Response audio XO.  This is
a nice combination.

The previous poster mentioned some technical considerations
and he is spot on.  I compared & contrasted my AV2 with the
Avatar Living voice speakers.  It's a darned good speaker.

You might also look into Audio kinesis speakers out of Idaho.
Lat but certainly not least...consider Spendor & Harbeth.

[WEEZ]

The Da-1's have the highest sensitivity of the choices...and my guess is that the MV50 in triode would produce around 20wpc...probably not quite enough for the Salks or the Tylers.

I've heard the Salks and the Daedalus, and they sound nothing alike. Never heard the Tylers, but they would likely be more similar to the Salks, not the Daedalus.

Of the three, the Da-1's would be the best fit if you're stuck on the MV50. Otherwise, it's wide open!

Welcome to AC 

WEEZ

[ted_b]

You REALLY need to listen to speakers with your own ears.  No getting away from that basic need.  Speakers are so incredibly personal, and system dependent, not to mention room dependent, that unless you can find a good local dealer wherever you are, then buy a couple pair used on Audiogon and then be prepared to sell the ones you don't like.  It's almost completely shooting in the dark without doing that.  The variables (your ears, your preferences, your room, your system, your sources, your cabling, your environment, your setup, your room, did I mention your room)  are mind numbing.  I know you've narrowed based on preferences, and that is a good start, I guess.

[Double Ugly]

I own a pair of DA-1s.  I haven't heard the other speakers you're considering, but feel free to send me a PM if you'd like to discuss the Daedalus.

FWIW, I really like them and plan to keep them, but they aren't my primary speaker.  I'll also add that, IME, what you've heard about the Daedalus isn't entirely accurate.

-Jim

[BarrelChief]

I bought my DA-1's from Bill at Response about 1.5 yrs ago.

I second Double Ugly's comment and also am available for a conversation so you can get another's point of view.

I am going through some significant system changes right now.  The only things that will be staying are my DA-1's and my Kubala-Sosna cables.

The DA-1's have a different kind of magic that you really have to hear to understand & enjoy. 

[inkasound]

Consider SP tech AV-1 Speakers or the upmarket/modified Response
Audio  Bella AV-1.  There is a used pair available for $1,000.00 USD.
I own that c-j amp  actually 2 of 'em (MV-52) as well as modified MV75s.
I'm sorta curious about your triode modification that is unique.

Thanks, I will check with the Sps. As for the mods. The Mv 50 has all new resistors(caddocks, rikken and tantalums) new coupling caps(russian pios), new power supply caps( solens and Run in oil off boarf), new power supply bypass caps (mundorf supreme), all wire is silver wire with teflon tubing, new sockets, an oulet for ac power cord, new rca WBT chassis sockets, new diodes (fast recovery). Also we reconfigure the circuit to eliminate the cathodic follower.We did change the original binding post for edison price music post, we damped all the internal chassis, and some caps. Thats it.

[inkasound]

Silverline Sonata II or Sonata III come to mind. Also the Living Voice Avatar OBX-R (only 6 ohm nominal, but 94 dB)

Thanks Tvad4 I have already checked these ones and I would like to know, besides the impedance-sensibility match why do you think they can match my taste/needs?

The Da-1's have the highest sensitivity of the choices...and my guess is that the MV50 in triode would produce around 20wpc...probably not quite enough for the Salks or the Tylers.
I've heard the Salks and the Daedalus, and they sound nothing alike. Never heard the Tylers, but they would likely be more similar to the Salks, not the Daedalus.
WEEZ

Hi Weez, Thanks for the info.
Could you let me know what were the basic or big differences between the Ht3s and the Daedalus in terms of soundstage, image, immediacy, low level information retrieval and thereness?
Do you think 20 W will do for the Daedalus?
Also Barrelchief and Double Ugly thanks for the offer I will pm you.
Alan

[tvad4]

I have no idea if the Sonata II or III or Living Voice Avatar will suit your taste. I believe they will match your amp better than the Salk or Tyler loudspeakers.

[[email protected]]

while not just what you are considering, i have used the tyler linbrook system II with a manley stingray (20 wpc in triode) and an audio note soro (18 wpc).  tyler suggested that the full linbrook would not necessariy work as well. 

[inkasound]

while not just what you are considering, i have used the tyler linbrook system II with a manley stingray (20 wpc in triode) and an audio note soro (18 wpc).  tyler suggested that the full linbrook would not necessariy work as well. 

Hi
And how was the sound coming from the linbrook system 2?
Could you describe it better?
Thanks
Alan

[[email protected]]

to me the sound is clean with lots of range and detail.  there is plenty of base for thinks like intervalli bassi (Gerd Reinke double base and piano or marc johnson) and plenty of upper end detail for some of the ECM jazz).  the midrange is very sweet and natural (brahms cello sonatas).  violin and piano also sound great.  i have not auditioned a bunch of speakers like some others here, so i cannot compare with the other things that you are considering. these have the same components as the linbrooks that you are considering, just less of them.  ty often has used pairs for sale (check his website), which makes these an even better deal.

if you care about such things the system II were a sterio times editors choice pick in 2005
http://www.stereotimes.com/mw2005d.shtml

[Rick Craig]

Off topic...

I am an old prog fan - wondering if there are CD's that you would reccommend? I know the remastering for CD's sometimes isn't that great due to 2nd/3rd generation master tapes, equalization intended for LP's,etc but have you run across any recordings that stand out? Check out Maxophone if you get a chance - really great Italian prog! Thanks!

[tvad4]

Off topic...

I am an old prog fan - wondering if there are CD's that you would reccommend? I know the remastering for CD's sometimes isn't that great due to 2nd/3rd generation master tapes, equalization intended for LP's,etc but have you run across any recordings that stand out? Check out Maxophone if you get a chance - really great Italian prog! Thanks!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31608.0

[inkasound]

Off topic...

I am an old prog fan - wondering if there are CD's that you would reccommend? I know the remastering for CD's sometimes isn't that great due to 2nd/3rd generation master tapes, equalization intended for LP's,etc but have you run across any recordings that stand out? Check out Maxophone if you get a chance - really great Italian prog! Thanks!

Hi Rick
You are right about the remastering process of cds but I can give you some good recommendations.
www.btf.it
This site sells all of records of the Italian prog groups of the seventies, 70% of this recordings(even if they are not remasters) are very good ones and have a very good stereo image with detailed and balanced sound.

Lets see, PFM(Premiata Forneria Marconi)for me along with King Crimson the best prog bands of all time, ww.btf.it sells the entire catalog for this classical-prog band. Look for the 24 bit versions in this site like this one

http://www.btf.it/default.aspij=3&qa=p&qb=sc&xy=cl007&jk=399&zp=104D&ln=E&opt=dettaglio

Their better works are really beautiful pieces with a lot of classical instruments and choral arrangements.The main singer Franco Mussida has a very sweet voice. In this bands all the chords instruments are amazingly performed.
Released in 24 bit are La isola de Niente, Storia de un Minuto, Per un amico, Jet Lag and Photos of Ghost which is the English version (with the help of Pete Sinfield, lyrics and concepts man of King Crimson) of Per un Amico.

Then also in the Italian road I have to recommend Le Orme. They are not so classical oriented but their inspiration is as all italian prog classical, so the result is a rock band with beautiful songs and great playing and singing.Oh and with a lot of Mellotron. They started as a beat band the they worked their way to the prog rock. Their better records are
Uomo di pezza, Felona y Sorona, Florian, Elementi
Their standards cds dont sound as good as the above 24 bits but they cant really enjoyed.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6855507&BAB=E
That is a very good sounding and selected compilation, that have remastered all the tracks. Its a good start with Le orme.

Then all the King Crimson 30th anniversary editions of their early magical albums have been remastered in hdcd and have a very good sound even if you played in a non-hdcd cd player.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6880511&BAB=E25

The better titles here are, In the Court of the Crimson King, Lizard, Larks Tongue in Aspic, Starless and Bible Black, Islands, In the Wake of Poseidon.
The first one In the Court of Crimson King has a better version also, this one
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6814917&BAB=E

I think overall speaking the italian bands of that time sound better than all the other ones. Another good sounding records that worth to listen that have been remastered in btf.it:
Quella Vecchia Locanda- Quella Vecchia Locanda(kind of Maxophone but more refined and better recorded, great voices)
Locanda delle Fate- Forse le lucciole non si amano più ( softer than all the other here but very captivating and sweet)
Banco- Darwin (the third best italian prog band after PFM and Le Orme, the singer has a very strong voice, and the keyboards are to die for,very good)
Banco- Io Sono nato Libero
I giganti- Terra in Boca (more singer oriented with a gypsy flavor, its one of my favorites)

Well I hope you get to listen to some of these bands, if you really want more recommendations PM me and I will make a bigger and most detailed list.
Alan Brain