[Dan Banquer]

The following is a quote fro Victor Khomenko, designer for Balanced Audio Technology.
"After you get used to your amp's sound, bring in a well broken-in amp from a friend, something quite different. Then see how long it will take you to break-in."

I recommend to all the folks who are believers of "burn in" to try this simple experiment and tell us what you find.
If you have not tried this yet, then I would like to recommend that you please refrain from posting until you do so.
                        d.b.

[tomjtx]

The following is a quote fro Victor Khomenko, designer for Balanced Audio Technology.
"After you get used to your amp's sound, bring in a well broken-in amp from a friend, something quite different. Then see how long it will take you to break-in."

I recommend to all the folks who are believers of "burn in" to try this simple experiment and tell us what you find.
If you have not tried this yet, then I would like to recommend that you please refrain from posting until you do so.
                        d.b.

Dan, are you hinting that it's we that burn in rather than the amp?

There are theories about the way we process aural information that support that idea. Pretty interesting.

[ZLS]

   What I find interesting is how this topic is shading on to the validity of Double Blind Testing.  If it is indeed the listener whose aural perception needs acclimation (breaking in) how does that affect the validity of rapidly switching back and forth between components? 
    Just thinking out loud.

[JohnR]

  Didn't we already have this thread?

[tomjtx]

the anti-cables thread is discussing this.

Music theory pedagogy demonstrates that we can train and improve our ears, it takes time and practice.

DBT is only as good as the people taking the test and may have little usefulness

[macrojack]

Dan Banquer - You are relentless in trying to bully people about what you insist is true --- just like a religious zealot. Lighten up. I'm not going to tell you whether I agree with you or not. I am, however, going to tell you to mind your own damn business. You don't get to tell me whether to post here or not. You do not have the authority to set a standard for posters. There are no qualifications for participation here. There are standards for behavior and while you adhere nicely to the protocol, I think you violate the spirit. This a meeting of minds not a test of mental strength and determination. I don't care what you think about burn in but I am hoping you will burn out.

[PhilNYC]

The following is a quote fro Victor Khomenko, designer for Balanced Audio Technology.
"After you get used to your amp's sound, bring in a well broken-in amp from a friend, something quite different. Then see how long it will take you to break-in."

I recommend to all the folks who are believers of "burn in" to try this simple experiment and tell us what you find.
If you have not tried this yet, then I would like to recommend that you please refrain from posting until you do so.
                        d.b.

I've tried it numerous times.  In general, I find it takes me a few hours to get used to the sound of a system (or a change in a component in a system).  But for new amps and speakers, I've found it takes 75-200 hours (depending on the specific component) of playing at medium-high volume before things settle down (ie burn in).  In the case of my DAC, the burn-in time was 300+ hours.  And in many cases, I've received an amp or speakers on a thursday, listened for a few hours, then gone away for a weekend leaving the system running for 72+ hours, and returned to find significant changes in the sound.

 

[Bill Baker]

I have been following some of these burn-in threads but will keep to my personal rule of not getting involved in debates.

 I will, however, say that speaker break-in is only obvious. You have moving parts here. Think of it this way. When you buy a new baseball glove, it is stiff. The more you use it, the more it breaks in.  (please no comments on how a baseball glove sounds after break-in). My point is that the moving materials of a speak driver do change in compliance and this can only effect the sound. This can easily be proven with measurements when new and then after several hours of use.

 Just my 5 cents (inflation)

[gooberdude]

I've experienced the same changes that PhilNYC reports.  

in my experience, the burn-in period can be painful to listen to..especially cables and plugs.  i find a way to let the gear run 24/7 at high volumes for a week or 2 when i'm not around.   invariably, it sounds difft than before the burn-in period.  my brain got used to nothing in these instances, however, i agree that my ears/brain require 15-20 minutes to become acclimated when, say, comparing cables or gear....or when auditioning someone else's system.  

i don't get why there's much of a debate on this?   are most hobbyists so impatient they can't wait a few weeks on brand new toys?    Or does this issue stem from mfgr's trial periods not being long enough?   ie, 20 days is a scam whereas 30 days is sufficient?

If all cable mfgr's 'cooked' their cables a few days prior to shipping them out, might this make a difference in perception also?

I received a new TVC preamp in October, it required a month of burn-in.  i could only give it a real workout 18 hrs a day, but even after 2 weeks it sounded different than it does now.  it just kept opening up until about the 500 hr mark.  

for me, making an analogy between new gear burning-in for 200hrs and a 10 yr old Cabernet 'opening up' in a wine decanter for 30 minutes would be very easy.   Since i know what's gonna happen, i don't mind waiting.      


matt

[Canyoneagle]

Quote from db:
"After you get used to your amp's sound, bring in a well broken-in amp from a friend, something quite different. "
-------------------------------------------------------
Isn't the original post mixing apples and oranges?
The title is "burn in" but the post addresses the (generally accepted) fact that different electronics will not sound the same.

If that is the point, then I wholeheartedly agree that it takes time to adjust to the different sound coming from different electronics.  I think most of us have experienced that, and would doubt that there is much debate on that point.

Am I off base here?

Now, as to the debate about the 'burn in' of equipment, ....... 
I guess, what is the harm as long as it is in the spirit of fun rather than personal attacks and judgement.

I DO get a kick out of the fact that the quote from mr. Khomenko says "well broken in" 

What, exactly does THAT mean?
Hmmmmmmm.........

Warmly,
Michael

[EarWax]

I challenge Mr. Banquer to this test:

I will purchase and send to you a Black Gate capacitor of your choice (IME- The single part that requires the most break-in time and exhibits the greatest difference pre-break-in vs. post-break-in (sounds horrible before and glorious after) to use as a replacement in one of your own amplifier designs. You substitute that cap for one of your own and tell me if the substitution does or does not affect (in any way) the sound of your design. Then, let the component operate for 200-300 hours - without listening to it during this period - and report back to us here with results of the post-burn-in listening test.

You will presumably have other amplifiers of your design on hand in which to compare the modded component - giving you the opportunity to A-B them directly - plus, you will have has the opportunity to witness for yourself if the pre-broken-in cap sounds any different than the post-broken-in cap.

We will then finally put this debate to rest (at least with Mr Banquer)   

[Dan Banquer]

I would like to thank for your most kind and generous offer. However I did this "experiment" for a client of mine a number of years ago and I doubled the amount of time that Black Gate required for "burn in". My testing and my ears said nothing is going on here. Some of my customers have asked about Black Gate caps and my response has been I will put them in but I will not back any claim. To date I have done one unit and I have not done another since then.
  Thanks again for the kind and generous offer.
                       d.b.
P.S. I have no response from the customer to indicate otherwise.