More feedback from Sig 70 Owners...

PLMONROE · « **on:** 3 Dec 2006, 07:31 pm »

Well my Sig 70s are approaching 75 hours. This may be heresy but I REALLY HATE Solid State (except for its beautiful bass) but love SETs. Congratulations Vinnie, I think you have just created a Solid State SET!!! I'm not good at reviews but I know what I hear. Like many I have far too many amps (something I have to correct) but here is how the Sig 70s stack up against amps with which I am very familiar. I have two Harman Kardon Citation IIs from the mid 60s that the genius and guru of Citation IIs, Jim McShane completely rebuilt, re tubed to KT-90s, and wired so they could be switched between pentode and triode operation. The Sig 70s leave them in the dust. I have a pair of VTL-250s (250 watt triodes) and the 70s best them. Likewise the 70s surpass two SET amps I have, a tweaked pair of ASL Explorer monoblocks with NOS premium tubes and probably the last special order SE-40 SET made by Bel Canto. The later also has premium tubes. These amps put out 50 watts and 37 watts respectively. I have a pair of Kora Cosmos Reference monos (100 watts triode - Stereophile Class A) which I feel have the most beautiful highs I have ever heard. The Sig 70s have better bass but do not match the highs, but they are not embarrassed either. Lastly with owned amps (of any real merit) I have a Parasound HCA-3500 modded beyond belief by Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio. Steve claims this substantially beats the stock Parasound Halo JC-1 monoblocks (Stereophile Class A). The Sig 70 matches its highs but does not match its bass, however in defense of the 70. the Parasound puts out 500 watts into my 4 ohm VMPS RM-40s. Vinnie, you really have something!

jrebman · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 09:10 pm »

I certainly don't have anywhere near the amp collection that plmonroe does, and probably nowhere near the level of listening experience, but my 70s have about 10 hours on them now, and while it is way too soon to say much of anything useful, I will say that this is truly the finest amp I have ever owned, and despite everything being fresh out of the box, it's sounding pretty damned good.

I'll explain further -- the only thing in my system that isn't new is the CDP and the speaker cables. The amps are obviously new, the Omega Revolutions are fresh out of the box, and I have a brand new pair of anti-cable ICs which I bought because I wanted something cheap and quick because the Nordost Red Dawns just wouldn't reach the amps. And oh yes, since things are a bit out of sorts around here after a major renovatin project, I couldn't find my good power box and cables, so I'm using a power cable into the CDP that is from a dormant laser printer. Also, the speakers aren't placed, and are just sitting on the floor, not on their bases, and the bases not mass loaded yet, and... as I said, this is pretty damned amazing.

You mean to tell me that this is going to get better??

Wow, that seems so hard to believe since ther is so little to complain about now.

Maybe the easiest thing to say is that, despite the reflexive tendency to listen analytically to new equipment, a whole lot of this initial listening time has just been spent enhjoying the music. And I'm not taking it easy on the volume or material selection either -- everything from The Clash to Copeland, Garci/Grisman to Count Basie, Louis Armstrong to Habibe Koite, and I'm only getting warmed up...

The Omega Revolutions are also a spectacular match with these amps, and even at only 10 hours, the best single-driver speakers I have heard... but again, more on that later when everything settles down a bit and they are properly positioned and mass loaded.

Vinnie, all I can say is that they are better than expected, and I was expecting a lot

. These are simply incredible amps!

And to all you folks waiting for yours to arrive, all I can say is that the wait will be well worth it!

So, now you can surely add my approval (what an understatement) to those of studely and plmonroe, and I'm sure whoever is next to get theirs.

More to come in the days and weeks ahead...

-- Jim

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 09:57 pm »

(NOTE: I decided to move the last two replies (see above) from this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=33257.10
to this new topic to make them more visable

)

Hi PLMONROE, and jrebman,

Thank you both very much for your valuable Signature 70 feedback!

Quote

Vinnie, all I can say is that they are better than expected, and I was expecting a lot . These are simply incredible amps!

And to all you folks waiting for yours to arrive, all I can say is that the wait will be well worth it!

I'll be back at it again starting tomorrow and hope to have another 3 or 4 orders shipping by the end of the week. These are a lot more time consuming that I thought, but they are really coming out really great! I do appreciate all your patience.

I'd love it if you guys can follow up when you put some more use on your Sig 70s (especially jrebman's, which aren't even ripe yet!

)

Paul Candy of 6moons received his review pair last week, along with an iMod to try as a source to feed directly into the Sig 70s. Totally off-the-grid!

Thanks again, guys!

Vinnie

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 10:02 pm »

Just to keep all the Sig 70 theads linked together, here is Studley's (Ian) 1st impression post of them:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=33837.0

Can't beat a title like "Visitor from a Parallel Universe" aa

Thanks, Ian!

Vinnie

gary · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 11:59 pm »

PLMONROE-

At 70 hours my Sig 30 was sounding alright, but there was clearly some distortion on the high end that made the treble seem a bit harsh and made the sound fatiguing if I listened for very long. I'd suggest you give the amps a few weeks and repeat the comparisons, at about 200 hours I think you'll find they're at a whole different level.

Gary

nicksgem10s · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Dec 2006, 05:22 am »

Thanks for the additional comments on the Sig 70's in the early stages. Are you guys using a preamp or running them direct with your sources? I am just curious because one day soon I will be joining the club.

These sound very interesting. I can't wait to post some comments of my own in another week or two. I hope sooner (fingers crossed)!

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Dec 2006, 02:38 am »

Quote from: nicksgem10s on 6 Dec 2006, 05:22 am

I can't wait to post some comments of my own in another week or two. I hope sooner (fingers crossed)!

Hi Nick,

I should be able to finish and ship out your Sig 70s sometime next week. I'll definitely let you know when they do

I also placed another order for more enclosures and other parts to make the second batch.

A big Estes delivery truck stopped by earlier today to deliver a few hundred pounds of SLAs

Of course, my back hurts from moving all of them

Best regards,

Vinnie

Canyoneagle · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Dec 2006, 02:55 am »

You guys just may convince me to spring for the sig 70's instead of a sig 30 for my compact hemps!
Of course, all this "Burn in" nonsense doesn't affect me

Just a joke for anyone who has been keeping up with the very active thread on Audio Central. There's nothing like a discussion of the unresolvable to spark things up!

Anyway, I look forward to hearing more about everyone's experiences with the 70's, as I have not yet decided which RWA amp to settle on aa

In the mean time, I'm sure Vinnie is burning the candle at both ends these days. Please don't forget to spend some time with your family!!!!!!!

Great thread. I'll keep watching it like the creepy guy across the street.

Warmly,
Michael

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Dec 2006, 02:32 pm »

Quote from: Canyoneagle on 7 Dec 2006, 02:55 am

In the mean time, I'm sure Vinnie is burning the candle at both ends these days. Please don't forget to spend some time with your family!!!!!!!

Great thread. I'll keep watching it like the creepy guy across the street.

Warmly,
Michael

Hi Michael,

Well if you can imagine, I'm burning the candle at both ends and at the middle too!

Also, my wife is growing by the day and our baby is expected to come in early February. Then the candle gets tossed in the fire!

Thanks for your interest in the RWA amps and please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

More Signature 70s shipped out last week and I'll be making more this week

Best regards,

Vinnie

sabes · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Dec 2006, 02:50 pm »

Quote from: nicksgem10s on 6 Dec 2006, 05:22 am

Thanks for the additional comments on the Sig 70's in the early stages. Are you guys using a preamp or running them direct with your sources? I am just curious because one day soon I will be joining the club.

These sound very interesting. I can't wait to post some comments of my own in another week or two. I hope sooner (fingers crossed)!

Nick: my sig 70's are burning in (90 hours and counting!) while i wait for a big modification to my singlepower mpx3. formerly "just" a headamp, mikhail is making it into a full-featured preamp that will include, for lack of a better description, a "home theater bypass" (even though this is not in an HT setup) that will allow me to run my tt and modded sb2 direct into the sig 70's, or through a more traditional tubed preamp stage. look forward to reporting the results. (n.b. it will have a phase inversion switch, too, so that i can see if i can add to the sturm und drang about the slimserver software that reportedly reverses the polarity of the signal...

).

PLMONROE · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 03:18 am »

Although I have been tied up a bit lately the Sig 70s are now approaching 150 hours and continue to improve. So far two things surprise me: 1) although the highs continue to improve I feel the change in the bass is more prevalent 2) although I was expecting improvement as the amps broke in I was not all prepared for the extent to which this has taken place. They sounded great right out of the box but what I am listening to now is sound in a different realm. I can't help but wonder how speakers that could be bi amped would sound if powered by a pair of these!

RoadTripper · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 04:10 am »

PLMONROE - Is the Sig 70 closing in on your Kora Cosmos Reference monos and your Parasound HCA-3500?

FWIW, mine arrived today. I have 2 hours on 'em. So, I will withhold comment except to say that my wife, hearing them briefly, has given the thumbs up. That's huge. It means the marriage will continue.

PLMONROE · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 04:31 am »

Yes, it is. However the Kora still holds a significant edge on top as does the modded Parasound on the bottom. Here its mostly a question of dynamics. That said, it's pretty hard for 70 watts to compete with 500. The differences are most apparent on symphonic and operatic compositions. On chamber music, vocals, jazz, etc the Sig 70s are right in there. We will have to see what another 50 hours does.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 04:41 am »

How long did you charge your batteries up before they got the 'green light' after you uncrated them?

miklorsmith · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 05:26 am »

An interesting observation - I've been witholding comments on my 70s because my entire system is blown up right now - the TacT and Altmann have been at TacT in relationship counseling. It seems they have everything worked out and are getting along as newlyweds, which is good for all the family. In fact, they're coming back to Seattle after their trip to Joysey! Hooray!!

Anyway, that means my source, preamp, and DAC have been away and I'm trying to get to know these amps. It's impossible to pin anything down, thus I've been quiet. But, here's the interesting part. The way I run the Def's without the TacT is with 50 hz, low-pass filters straight from a standard preamp to the sub amp, while the mains go out to the 70s. This actually works pretty well, as the 70s have secondary attenuation so I can match levels pretty well.

When I first got the 70s, just balancing by ear, the volume controls were pointed to 12:00 to achieve best balance between the mains and subs. Now, they're at 3:00 or so. Some kind of break in? Ears or electronics? I doubt it's my ears as the balance point is pretty obvious - it usually takes me about 15 seconds.

So far they have about 75 hours on them and are sounding very nice. They don't have the same holographic sense the Yamamoto does, but the comparison is totally unfair since the whole rig is unbalanced. That's . . . why . . . I've . . . refrained . . . doh

I should have everything back together before this w/e and may even have a few fellows over for comparisons. Fun!

PLMONROE · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 02:04 pm »

My 70s charged up to green light status after being uncrated in two to three minutes. So for all purposes they arrived fully charged.

sabes · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 02:37 pm »

I'll have to concur with the other posts here - these sound great out of the box, and keep improving. right now, i'm mostly "playing" them for burn-in purposes, as opposed to "listening", but every once in a while i can't help but be drawn into the listening room by some musical phrase that just sounds stunning and demands my attention. these are truly the real deal!

RoadTripper · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 08:42 pm »

Here is a sneek peek: I have tried all kinds of upgrades in my short audio-phile career. Like decent interconnects over Rat-Shack wire; like an Audio-Alchemy outboard DAC (circa 1990); like a new CD player - tubed (Norh CD-1); like new very expensive speaker cables and power cables - list cost @2000.00. All of these boiled down to straining with all my imagination to detect some sort of improvement.

I also tried some slightly more effective upgrades, like buying some tube amps (budget Norh SE-9 and Jolida 502b);even more money on the Panasonic XR-45 (modded); big bucks on VMPS RM40s (even more effective); big bucks on Zu Druids (quite effective). These all had a noticeably more-or-less dramatic effect on the overall sound. But, still, it was a matter of straining to convince myself that I was nearing audio nirvana.

The Clari-T was another step forward, as was the battery operated SN-DAC (modded). Then came the Squeezebox, battery operated/modded. With these I could tell I was getting pretty close. Bringing in friends for a listen always resulted in the WOW factor.

But, after hearing the Sig 70 for a few hours last night, I now realize that my Clari-T was the weak link in my system. The Sig 70 has by far brought the biggest single leap forward. I will hold off for now on the details (too early??) except to say that Vinnie can forget about me sending my Sig 70 back.

Srajan Ebaen · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Dec 2006, 09:06 pm »

Paul Candy has a pair of 70s pre-cooked by the Vinman. He accepted the assignment based on my own excitement over the Sig 30. Of course, he wouldn't mind proving the boss wrong either should the occasion arise and with all of my writers, we've got this unspoken thing going - when is one of 'em gonna hear something I reviewed where they'll have a completely contrarious take. I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later.

Not this time though.

Paul's fave non-tube gear so far has been the AudioZone stuff from Canada - chip amps like my Pateks, different guise but nearly identical innards. Really good stuff which we agree on. After playing with the 70s for a while, he sent me a short e-mail. "These really are the shit, aren't they?" It wasn't really a question.

I was feeling mighty smug there for a moment. The inevitable had been avoided one more time. (Which just means, I'm getting closer and closer to being proven wrong.)

He describes a more laid-back, warmer sound than with his chip amps which are "jumpier" - which would correlate with my take on the Sig 30. The rest will be for him to share when the time comes but it seems, our man in the cold white north is getting battery-powered Tripath juice. I'll get to keep my job a bit longer. Phew...

nicksgem10s · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 02:00 am »

This is all really good news on these early reports. I have two pair of speakers that I will be listening to with the Signature 70s once they arrive and will ultimately sell the pair that loses that battle. I am really looking forward to getting to know these amps in my system over the Christmas Holiday. I do appreciate all the updates from owners and friends. Is anyone using these with any Reference 3A or Consonance speakers? Happy Holidays to all.

Srajan your well written review on the Sig 30 helped twist my arm on the Signature 70s so my thanks to you and all who pointed you towards its review. Keep up the great work.

Vinnie thank you in advance.....