[Nostalgia]

Morning, all.  I'm going to be starting my A/V-2's this weekend, and thought I'd post pictures as I go, in case they can be of use to anyone.

One thing I noticed is missing from the PDF instructions is a list of the sizes of the various parts, leaving it up to the builder to figure out the panel sizes.  Not a big deal, but could be a headache for some.  I made up cutlists that I thought I'd share with everyone.

They're desinged to use easily handled sheet goods (2'x4' and 4'x4' panels instead of 4'x8'), and minimize saw setups to make sure the pieces are as accurate as possible.

The cutlists here are for 3 A/V-2's - fronts and center.  I hope they're readable - Photobucket automatically resized them.







Enjoy,

-Joe

[Nostalgia]

Here's where I'm documenting my progress:  My Homepage

Ran into minor trouble already.  The tweeter's flange isn't concentric with its body.  It doesn't fit in the hole!  Is it normal that I should have to egg out the hole 1/8" to make it fit?



I also realized I don't have the Sonicap upgrade.  I'm certain I asked for it when I ordered them - I ordered them over the phone instead of online because you can't order just one Sonicap upgrade online.  Is it worth it such that I should wait for Danny to send out the Sonicaps, or should I just use what I've got?

-Joe

[Daygloworange]

Ran into minor trouble already.  The tweeter's flange isn't concentric with its body.  It doesn't fit in the hole!  Is it normal that I should have to egg out the hole 1/8" to make it fit?

Is your cutout round? The flange is a molded piece. They are round.

I also realized I don't have the Sonicap upgrade.  I'm certain I asked for it when I ordered them - I ordered them over the phone instead of online because you can't order just one Sonicap upgrade online.  Is it worth it such that I should wait for Danny to send out the Sonicaps, or should I just use what I've got?

If you're at the stage where it's not finished, then order it and it'll get to you in a week or so. It'll optimise the crossover, and then the question won't nag at you. It costs on a couple of bucks for the piece of mind.

Cheers

[RAW]

I believe I know the issue that you have.
The tweeter is round yes.
BUT
The magnet cup is not centered on the rear of the tweeter.
We found this out last year and have since had to sand with a drum sander each baffle we to and test fit a tweeter to make sure.
You will have to sand and fit each tweeter to fit into the inside of the baffle but the tweeter should fit just fine in the OD.
This is a issue that Danny knows about.

And yes you will have to kind of egg shape the inside of the tweeter hole to make them fit.

Nice layout sheets also.

[pipster]

I am in the process of building the A/V-3S center (while determining what I want for L/R).  I am hoping you were spot checking and still plan to work on the box.  Do you plan to do the 3/8 roundover on the back?  Did you do a double pass (both sides of MDF)?  The reason I ask is the middle band I noticed on the woofer circle suggest wasn't a single cut.  Could the jig have slipped during the cut - I know mine did on the bracing half circle.  Also, presuming you cut the full 3.2" circle first, was the pin centered and/or well anchored on your underpiece with the missing 3.2" cutout as you did the 0.18 countersink out to 4.1"?

Back to the issue of out of round.  Consider checking the "round" of both the tweeter and the hole by drawing a 4.1" circle with a compass on paper.  Cut it with scissors to have a known good "4.1 round".  Compare vs. the edge of the tweeter, as well as the fit to your circle cut.  It will show which, if either, is out of round.  Also, from the bottom side inspect the fit of the 1/2" hole clearance for the tweeter.  Perhaps it is a hair off, with one side tight and limiting the seating within the circle.  In that case, time for a sanding attachment on a dremel.

Loved looking at your web site.  You obviously have done a lot of woodwork and the above suggestions seem almost elementary.  I debated on building a circle jig like yours, but broke down and bought a Jasper jig and worked perfect - except 4.1" and 3.2" aren't, so rounded up to the closest 4.125 and 3.25.

[Nostalgia]

Is your cutout round? The flange is a molded piece. They are round.

Yes - see RAW's post following your original one.

If you're at the stage where it's not finished, then order it and it'll get to you in a week or so. It'll optimise the crossover, and then the question won't nag at you. It costs on a couple of bucks for the piece of mind.

Will do, thanks.  Not worried about the cost since I had already budgeted to have them.

-Joe

[Nostalgia]

I believe I know the issue that you have.
The tweeter is round yes.
BUT
The magnet cup is not centered on the rear of the tweeter.
We found this out last year and have since had to sand with a drum sander each baffle we to and test fit a tweeter to make sure.
You will have to sand and fit each tweeter to fit into the inside of the baffle but the tweeter should fit just fine in the OD.
This is a issue that Danny knows about.

And yes you will have to kind of egg shape the inside of the tweeter hole to make them fit.

Yup, that's it exactly.  If I rotate the tweeter 180 degrees, the gap shows up on the opposite side.  So the tweeter body is not concentric with the flange - they're both round, but not concentric to each other.

Nice layout sheets also.

Thanks!  That's Cutlist Pro.  Saves me a -ton- of time.  The full-rez versions of those images are at the site I linked above.

-Joe

[Nostalgia]

I am in the process of building the A/V-3S center (while determining what I want for L/R).  I am hoping you were spot checking and still plan to work on the box.  Do you plan to do the 3/8 roundover on the back?  Did you do a double pass (both sides of MDF)?  The reason I ask is the middle band I noticed on the woofer circle suggest wasn't a single cut.  Could the jig have slipped during the cut - I know mine did on the bracing half circle.  Also, presuming you cut the full 3.2" circle first, was the pin centered and/or well anchored on your underpiece with the missing 3.2" cutout as you did the 0.18 countersink out to 4.1"?

Nah, the circles are definitely round.  The pin drops 1/2" deep into the 1/16" hole I drilled in the first place, so there's no chance of it being off-center.

In that case, time for a sanding attachment on a dremel.

I'm going to go with RAW's suggestion of a drum sander.  I've got a 2" sander that can go in a hand drill.

Loved looking at your web site.  You obviously have done a lot of woodwork and the above suggestions seem almost elementary.

Thanks!  I'll always listen to suggestions - it's easy to miss the simplest things sometimes.

I debated on building a circle jig like yours, but broke down and bought a Jasper jig and worked perfect - except 4.1" and 3.2" aren't, so rounded up to the closest 4.125 and 3.25.

Since I'm fairly anal-retentive, I used a set of Vernier calipers (anyone else still know how to read one of those?) to measure 4.1" and 3.2" (and 0.18" for the depth) on a piece of paper, then folded the paper in half to get the radius for my compass   In the end it really didn't matter, since I'm going to have to hit it with the drum sander, anyway.  But that's not really the point

-Joe

[Daygloworange]

Yup, that's it exactly.  If I rotate the tweeter 180 degrees, the gap shows up on the opposite side.  So the tweeter body is not concentric with the flange - they're both round, but not concentric to each other.

I don't remember having the same issue with the tweeters on my AV/3's. I may have cut the magnet opening a bit oversize since it's not of real concern, but the face plate hole was spot on.

Since I'm fairly anal-retentive, I used a set of Vernier calipers (anyone else still know how to read one of those?)

  Yeah, I still can, but there are digital ones out there for real cheap, and they're more than good enough for anybody but a machinist.

[Nostalgia]

Do you plan to do the 3/8 roundover on the back?  Did you do a double pass (both sides of MDF)?  The reason I ask is the middle band I noticed on the woofer circle suggest wasn't a single cut.

I just re-read this, and I'm not sure I'm following you.  Yes, I plan to do the 3/8" roundover on the back.  Where are you talking about a "double pass"?  I will do both sides of the MDF for the brace, but just the back side for everything else.  What "middle band" are you talking about?  You mean the tweeter hole?  First you have to cut a recess for the flange of the tweeter, then you cut the actual hole that the body of the tweeter will drop into.  The two 1/2" holes on the edge are clearance for the wires.

Did I answer your question?

-Joe

[Nostalgia]

I don't remember having the same issue with the tweeters on my AV/3's. I may have cut the magnet opening a bit oversize since it's not of real concern, but the face plate hole was spot on.

I did that with the remaining two after I saw RAW's post.

Yeah, I still can, but there are digital ones out there for real cheap, and they're more than good enough for anybody but a machinist.

This is true.  Maybe I spent too much time hanging out with my dad (the guy who can set a 0.014 point gap by eye), but doing a simple thing like reading a vernier scale is somehow more enjoyable than reading a digital readout.  Maybe "satisfying" is more the word I want.  Either way, it makes me happy

-Joe

P.S. Coupla more pix uploaded.  More progress awaits arrival of my 3/8" roundover bit.  I've got 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2", of course   Hmmm...I'll have to ask Danny tomorrow if it really makes a difference whether I use a 1/4" or 3/8" roundover.  I think it must be a misprint on the brace, since the brace is only a 1/2" thick - how can both sides have a 3/8" radius roundover?

[Danny Richie]

The face plate of the tweeters are fine and perfectly round, but the shielding cup is not centered on some of them. Just cut your through hole slightly larger and you're home free.

Yea the 3/8" radius is only good if you use a 3/4" thick brace.

Give me a call tomorrow and we'll check on that Sonicap upgrade deal and I'll get you taken care of.

[Nostalgia]

Yea the 3/8" radius is only good if you use a 3/4" thick brace.

I would have used 3/4", but since the directions specify 1/2" I went with that.  Does it matter?

Does the radius on the back of the woofer openings matter, whether it's 1/4", 3/8" or 1/2"?  I don't know how sensitive the setup is to these small changes.  I doubt much, but figure it doesn't hurt to ask.

Thanks for the reply!

-Joe

[Danny Richie]

It really doesn't matter much on the brace, but I would go with the larger radius on the back side of the woofer holes if you can.

[pipster]

You wrote:
"Where are you talking about a "double pass"?  I will do both sides of the MDF for the brace, but just the back side for everything else.  What "middle band" are you talking about?"

It is not really important, just caught my eye.  If you look at the photo of the misaligned tweeter, next to it are the two empty woofer holes.  Those are the holes I was talking about. Notice the band/ridge half way down.  It is almost as if the router bit went just so far down, then had to flip the piece over to to finish the cut - leaving that little band/ridge burr.  It was more of a distraction than anything.  Not important, and can't believe my eyes are that sharp.

They are right about the 3/8 roundover on the 1/2" brace.  Top side looked great, but kind of butchered it when I did the other side.  Cleaned it up with sandpaper - not great, but not intended to be commercial quality and will be well hidden when the box is sealed.  Ironically, I had both a 1/8 and 1/4 roundover from other projects which would have been a better choice on the 1/2" MDF, and if I hadn't already glued them in before reading the earlier post would probably re-do the braces.

Speaking of roundover bits, for the external baffle roundover, a 3/4" roundover is only available for routers with a 1/2" cog.  For those with a 1/4" cog, the largest roundover generally available everywhere (5 local sources and online) is 1/2".  I was pleasantly surprised at Sears when I found a 5/8" roundover  on the 1/4 drive.  Just FYI.

 

[Nostalgia]

It is not really important, just caught my eye.  If you look at the photo of the misaligned tweeter, next to it are the two empty woofer holes.  Those are the holes I was talking about. Notice the band/ridge half way down.  It is almost as if the router bit went just so far down, then had to flip the piece over to to finish the cut - leaving that little band/ridge burr.  It was more of a distraction than anything.  Not important, and can't believe my eyes are that sharp.

AH!  That's what I thought you meant, but couldn't find a picture that showed it - good eyes!   That's an artifact of not having a plunge base for my router.  Sometimes when I lower and lock it for the next pass (I cut through in 3 passes) it's not perfect.  I'm not worried, since it'll clean up when I rout the roundovers - it's less than 1/2 the thickness of the MDF.

Speaking of roundover bits, for the external baffle roundover, a 3/4" roundover is only available for routers with a 1/2" cog.  For those with a 1/4" cog, the largest roundover generally available everywhere (5 local sources and online) is 1/2".  I was pleasantly surprised at Sears when I found a 5/8" roundover  on the 1/4 drive.  Just FYI.

Honestly, I'd be terrified to use a 5/8" roundover bit with a 1/4" shank.  I only use 1/2" shanks as I like the greater mass.  I have a 3/4" roundover bit, and I'm still a little concerned about using it in a full-speed router.  Maybe Santa will bring me one of those variable speed 3 hp plunge routers

-Joe

[pipster]

Good luck with Santa and the plunge router!

I also don't have a plunge router - and Jasper recommends only using a plunge router with their jig.  What I did, when drilling the 1/2" hole for the tweeter, I also drilled 1/2" holes in the discarded area of the circles, 1/4" in so just touched the circumference of the circle.  That provided a safe set-up with the bit in the drilled hole prior to starting the router and the bit could be set to full depth for one pass.  For the counter sink areas, preset the bit depth, then freehand a path across the small area to the outer circle.  This provided a safe start groove, then did 3 circles to clean out the countersunk area.  Found that to be easier than to even think about a rabbet bit.

You may want to think about that technique for your other cabinets.

[Nostalgia]

That provided a safe set-up with the bit in the drilled hole prior to starting the router and the bit could be set to full depth for one pass.

So you rout your circles out full depth in one pass?  Isn't that really tough on the bit/motor?  I've been doing 3 passes.

-Joe

[Blaine_M]

MDF is soft compared to a lot of woods...can't see how that would be hard on the bit or the router.  I think you guys are making this more complicated than it really is. 

[Daygloworange]

Trying to do full depth cuts is hard on the motor and bearings. As the the brushes start to deteriorate you see the sparking really increase between the brushes and collector under load. Take lighter passes is easier on bearing, brushes and cutters, not to mention safer.

Cheers