[studley]

I hope to have Wayne mod a SB2 for me  (yet to be acquired - anybody got one for sale?).  I'm trying to decide whether to go for just the digital mods and use it with a good quality DAC, or go for the analogs as well.  I've seen some "asides" in other threads on this aspect but I thought I'd start a thread specifically on the subject. 

Based on earlier comments from you Wayne, I anticipate you would advocate the full mods.   However I'll be interested to hear other user viewpoints.

[zybar]

Studley,

I have both a digital and an analog SB2 from Wayne.  The digital goes into my modified TacT 2.2x and the analog goes directly into my Moscode 401HR.

I ran the analog SB2 in my bedroom system for 3+ weeks and just put it into the main system yesterday.

I can heartily recommend going with the analog version directly into your amp.  There is a clarity and naturalness with the analog version that is lacking in the digital + TacT.  I didn't feel that I had any digital nastiness before putting the analog version into the system, but now I can hear it.  It is a haze over the music that is making it a little fuzzy and edgy in a direct comparison.

There was one negative for me going with the analog version:

-  No TacT in the chain means no room correction.     While I am loving the improvements that the analog version brings, losing my room correction functionality hurts (especially in the bass).  Luckily, I will be getting this back to a certain extent with my new speakers (they have a built in 11 band "eq" from 20-100Hz).

I am going to need to get more time with the analog version before I say much more, but I am extremely happy that I decided to get the analog version. 

George

[95bcwh]

George,
Perhaps you can ask Wayne to look at the DAC card in your Tact.. if Wayne can modify the SB analog out to be so good, I don't see why he can't do the same for the DAC card in the Tact. aa

barry

[mr_bill]

Studley,

I have both a digital and an analog SB2 from Wayne.  The digital goes into my modified TacT 2.2x and the analog goes directly into my Moscode 401HR.

I ran the analog SB2 in my bedroom system for 3+ weeks and just put it into the main system yesterday.

I can heartily recommend going with the analog version directly into your amp.  There is a clarity and naturalness with the analog version that is lacking in the digital + TacT.  I didn't feel that I had any digital nastiness before putting the analog version into the system, but now I can hear it.  It is a haze over the music that is making it a little fuzzy and edgy in a direct comparison.

There was one negative for me going with the analog version:

-  No TacT in the chain means no room correction.     While I am loving the improvements that the analog version brings, losing my room correction functionality hurts (especially in the bass).  Luckily, I will be getting this back to a certain extent with my new speakers (they have a built in 11 band "eq" from 20-100Hz).

I am going to need to get more time with the analog version before I say much more, but I am extremely happy that I decided to get the analog version. 

George

George,
How do you deal with the problem of gain matching with the amp (SB2 with analog mods into Moscode amp) to use the SB volume in its 40-100 range so you don't lose any resolution.  I have my SB3 running into a Benchmark Dac but I have the -20 db jumpers employed in the Benchmark so I can use the right volume range in the SB3.
I hope this made sense!
Bill

[zybar]

George,
Perhaps you can ask Wayne to look at the DAC card in your Tact.. if Wayne can modify the SB analog out to be so good, I don't see why he can't do the same for the DAC card in the Tact. aa

barry

My DAC card is modified by Aberdeen Components.

I don't think the reason it sounds better is the DAC. 

I think it has more to do with eliminating a whole piece of gear and the associated equipment.

Don't get me wrong, I think my modified TacT is fantastic and I will not abandon room correction.  I am just probably going to skin the cat in a different way that should ultimately improve the sound I get from my system.

George

[rajacat]

I think that it would be hard to judge the digital vs. analog mods without taking into consideration what dac is used and if the digital mod has all max upgrades such as the silver Bybees.

Raja

[zybar]

Studley,

I have both a digital and an analog SB2 from Wayne.  The digital goes into my modified TacT 2.2x and the analog goes directly into my Moscode 401HR.

I ran the analog SB2 in my bedroom system for 3+ weeks and just put it into the main system yesterday.

I can heartily recommend going with the analog version directly into your amp.  There is a clarity and naturalness with the analog version that is lacking in the digital + TacT.  I didn't feel that I had any digital nastiness before putting the analog version into the system, but now I can hear it.  It is a haze over the music that is making it a little fuzzy and edgy in a direct comparison.

There was one negative for me going with the analog version:

-  No TacT in the chain means no room correction.     While I am loving the improvements that the analog version brings, losing my room correction functionality hurts (especially in the bass).  Luckily, I will be getting this back to a certain extent with my new speakers (they have a built in 11 band "eq" from 20-100Hz).

I am going to need to get more time with the analog version before I say much more, but I am extremely happy that I decided to get the analog version. 

George

George,
How do you deal with the problem of gain matching with the amp (SB2 with analog mods into Moscode amp) to use the SB volume in its 40-100 range so you don't lose any resolution.  I have my SB3 running into a Benchmark Dac but I have the -20 db jumpers employed in the Benchmark so I can use the right volume range in the SB3.
I hope this made sense!
Bill

Bill,

Looks like I am lucky, as the SB2-Moscode pairing has me using the volume between 70-90 for all cd's I have listened to so far.  If I am losing resolution I can't hear it.  In fact, as I stated above, I feel that I have gained in resolution.   

Does anybody know at what where on the volume chain you are supposed to be losing resolution?

I know with my TacT that it is recommended that you stay above 70 or so on the volume settings to make sure there isn't an loss of resolution.

George

[mr_bill]

George,
I've read that if you use the SB between  40-100, you don't lose any resolution.
I am considering sending my SB3 for analog mods plus power supply and ditching my Benchmark Dac1.
I just want to come out ahead in performance from making the switch and I'm kind of worried about the gain matching.
Thanks,
Bill

[Double Ugly]

Hi Bill,

I realize you addressed the following to George, but if you don't mind a little additional experience/insight...

I've read that if you use the SB between  40-100, you don't lose any resolution.

I've read about a lot of supposed LIMFACs when using a Squeezebox as a player, but I haven't noticed any less resolution at low volumes w/ the SB2 than with any other transport or player I've owned or auditioned.  The sound I get at very low volumes isn't quite as resolving, but that's been the case with every system I've owned.  If there's a way to hear everything at low volumes that I hear when I have it cranked, I'd love to know what it is... seriously.

I am considering sending my SB3 for analog mods plus power supply and ditching my Benchmark Dac1.

Like George, I think that's a great plan. 

I was very attached to my highly-modified ack! dAck! when the SB2 arrived, and kept it in the chain for a month or so before Mike Galusha convinced me to try the SB2 as a stand-alone player.  When I did, I heard the same increased resolution and veil-removal George mentioned, and I have no desire to try a separate DAC in my system.

Except for maybe the Dodson PhilNYC sells. 

I just want to come out ahead in performance from making the switch and I'm kind of worried about the gain matching.

As implied earlier, that's a bit of a problem for me, too.  Even so, until such time as I find a pre-amp that will have little to no negligible affect on the sound I'm getting now, I will continue using modified Slim Devices products as players.  Their performance is too good to consider doing otherwise IMHO.

Regards,

-Jim

[chadh]

Just a comment about room correction when using the SB direct into your amps...

Inguz, a participant on the Slim Devices forum and an occasional visitor to this forum, has designed a plug-in for the SB that will do digital room correction for you.  You need to have a sufficiently powerful server to run the plug-in and slimserver, as there's apparently quite a lot of processing going on.  You'll also need some way of feeding room sweeps to your computer so you can create an appropriate correction curve.  But the software itself is free and the few user reports I've seen seem to suggest it's quite effective.


Software and directions: http://inguzaudio.com/RoomCorrection/

Announcement of software release:  http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24519

I'm still saving to get the appropriate microphone and microphone pre-amp to record the room sweeps to my pc, so I haven't tried it yet.  But for someone like George who's missing his TACT DRC, this might be a worthwhile option.

Chad

[95bcwh]

When I listened to Wayne Ultimate PS with his analog mods few months ago, I thought it has some kind of "analog" sound that the Tact wouldn't produce. The edge is softer but there's no lack of refinement, the mid range is fuller too, overall it gives a more pleasant sound than the Tact. Now the DAC card in the Tact alone is more expensive than a squeezebox, if Bybee can works its magic on the DAC in SB, who knows what it will do on the DAC of the Tact?

The room correction is done digitally before the signal goes to the DAC, if after putting the Bybee on the the Tact's DAC it still sound more edgy then the modded SB2 analog out, then we know the problem is with the room correction and not the DAC.

By the way, I have spoken to Anthony before and he refused to use Bybee.. nothing wrong with that, it's just that he's in a different camp.

My DAC card is modified by Aberdeen Components.

I don't think the reason it sounds better is the DAC. 

I think it has more to do with eliminating a whole piece of gear and the associated equipment.

Don't get me wrong, I think my modified TacT is fantastic and I will not abandon room correction.  I am just probably going to skin the cat in a different way that should ultimately improve the sound I get from my system.

George

[playntheblues]

chadh, great link for the room correction much appreciated   

[chadh]

chadh, great link for the room correction much appreciated   

My pleasure.  Just do me a favor:  if you experiment with this, come back and tell me how it worked for you! I think it would be cool to play with the room correction stuff, but I'm unable to buy the required toys right now.

Chad

[studley]

OK, the feedback so far is encouraging me to go for the analog mods and forget a DAC.  The next question is should I go for the Bybee options, and if so which option !!  I'd probably go for the Bybees if I thought the improvement was rather more than just subtle.  I'd welcome any comments on this from anyone who has experience  of with and without the Bybees.

[jrebman]

Ian,

Thanks for starting this thread as I'm right there with you and considering the same approach.  I have two brand new SB3s that I will probably eventually get around to modding, but I just bought an SB2 yesterday and intend to get the full-blown analog section treatment and use this as the sole source in my office system.

I will be going for the gold bybees myself and while I'd like to say that is because I have real world experience with them, it is mostly because of the testimony of others who have had the experience, and who I otherwise tend to feel comfortable with some of their other choices.  I heard little bits here and there at RMAF and spent a little time talking to Jack Bybee himself so I'm quite confident I won't be disappointed.

I spoke with Wayne last night and he is going to update the SB2 page today with the various bybee options and current pricing.

The system it will go in will be very simple and straightforward:  The SB2 analog outs directly into the amp (either a 6EM7 SET that I'll be building early next year, a Dynakit ST-35, CI Audio VMB-1 monoblocks, or maybe even my Sig 70s) and then either into the Abbys or my Omega Revolutions, depending on what I eventually do with the main system upstairs and whether the Revolutions find their way down here or not.

Perhaps it would also put things more into perspective if I told you that my current digital source is an Audio Aero Capitole -- a very smoothe, very analog sounding player, which should tell you that digital has to be pretty damned sweet for me to listen to it, so that's mainly why the gold bybees.

Now there's the money thing to figure out .

-- Jim

[studley]

Jim
Good to know that this thread is helpful to more than just me.  My CDP is a Sugden Masterclass which is also a very smooth analog sounding player.  The Gold Bybees therefore appeal to me as well, but its onehelluva price hike !  It would be good to get further reassurance from other ACers - anyone?

BTW, did you get the SB2 off Audiogon from the guy who was also selling the new SB3?  If so, your timing was immaculate (from your standpoint) - I was just negotiating a deal for just the SB2!
Rgds
Ian

[jrebman]

BTW, did you get the SB2 off Audiogon from the guy who was also selling the new SB3?  If so, your timing was immaculate (from your standpoint) - I was just negotiating a deal for just the SB2!

Ian,

Yes, sorry, that's where I got it. He sounded like he only wanted to sell them as a pair, and taking a chance that one of my friends might buy the other SB3, or that I could sell both my brand new, still in box one and this new one together for a very good price, made me decide to take the bundle.

Sorry, I knew you too were looking for one but had no idea it was you who was also negotiating with this seller.  For me it was just one of those freak things -- I hadn't looked at agon in a couple of weeks and just checked on a whim, and there it was, and I made a quick decision to go for it.  I do seem to have that, as my fiancee calls it, "audio kharma" where all these things just seem to fall in my lap -- well, as long as she thinks they are deals, who's to question that? .

Sorry man, if I see another I'll drop you an email.

-- Jim

[robert1325]

Hi,   I am very happy with my analog modded SB2 ( w/out any bybee's for my small wallet's sake)       I did some measurements with a mic but don't know how to use the DRC program.  It looks very complicated.

The modded sb2 is very good,  it  sounds fine compared to my dad's wadia 23 (  it's a bit old now but sounds very LIVE)  can't really do a head to head thingy because They have such different sonic signatures and system synergie makes a big difference...
 But what I like the most about the SB is the different colors in the music,  Big-band is very good on this thing.

I don't even have the ultimate power supply,        just an updated basic ps.

The SB made me upgrade my amp and my speakers.

[studley]

Jim
No apology necessary, I wasn't suggesting you'd done me wrong - it was just interesting from a synchronicity angle.  I'm sure I'll pick one up sooner or later.

rgds
Ian

[totoro]

chadh, great link for the room correction much appreciated   

My pleasure.  Just do me a favor:  if you experiment with this, come back and tell me how it worked for you! I think it would be cool to play with the room correction stuff, but I'm unable to buy the required toys right now.

Chad

I've set it up and run it, with excellent results. I posted a thread on the slim devices forum about it:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29489&highlight=inguz