[duggie]

hi all,

i am considering a digital room correction/crossover system.  i do not do home theatre, i do not want any preamp function, as i will still be using my tube preamp.  most of my listening is to analog source - fm - tho i also listen to analog vinyl, & cd.  i actively cross over to subs.  present speakers are not bi-amp capable, tho in the future, i might want to try active crossover bi-amplification w/line-source speakers, so i would like tri-amp capability.  from what i figure, the deqx unit w/o preamp is what i should be looking for.  but, i wanted comments from those who have tried these units.

thanks...

[miklorsmith]

Having owned three models of TacT preamps, I do not believe this is what you want.  If you go digital source > TacT > preamp > amp, that might work but the TacT will be performing preamp functions, then you'll have another preamp.  I'm thinking the reduction in resolution would not be worth the benefits, unless you have severe room problems.  This would work better straight to a tube amp, skipping the additional stage.

It seems with the TacT, you'd be buying some functionality you don't need.

What specifically are you trying to accomplish?  Would a Behringer unit possibly get you a taste for $300 or so?  Maybe to a DAC, this would be 'good enough'?

I don't know anything about the DEQX stuff, so I can't help at all there.

[duggie]

thanks for the reply.  all i am looking to do is get the ultimate in crossover performance & the ultimate in in-room response of my speakers.  i have considered something like the behringer, but it seems the additional resolution of the more expensive units would be worth the added cost.

i am a firm believer in room eq; having heard what a cheap pink noise/10-band eq set up could do for a pair of bose 901's, 25 years ago.     my system sounds nice as-is, but you know how it is - you always wonder "what if..."   aa

Having owned three models of TacT preamps, I do not believe this is what you want.  If you go digital source > TacT > preamp > amp, that might work but the TacT will be performing preamp functions, then you'll have another preamp.  I'm thinking the reduction in resolution would not be worth the benefits, unless you have severe room problems.  This would work better straight to a tube amp, skipping the additional stage.

It seems with the TacT, you'd be buying some functionality you don't need.

What specifically are you trying to accomplish?  Would a Behringer unit possibly get you a taste for $300 or so?  Maybe to a DAC, this would be 'good enough'?

I don't know anything about the DEQX stuff, so I can't help at all there.

[miklorsmith]

I think all the units you named perform their functions in the digital realm.  This means you'll need DAC conversion somewhere.  If you're using analog sources, there's an ADC step along the way also.  I believe the Behringer units have DACs inside and the TacT can be bought that way, at additional cost. 

If you have a DAC you really like, this is not a big deal since you'd just run the EQ to the DAC and out to your amp (or pre in your case).  If you are planning to use the internal DACs of the EQ, that will be an additional consideration as the primary function of the piece (room equalization) carries the baggage of whatever DAC it has.  In the case of the TacT, I do not much like the internal DACs which are easily bested for less cost than it costs to have them installed at the factory.  I've had a few listeners over and there has been universal preference for an Ack! or Altmann DAC over the internal TacT converters.

If you would use the subwoofer circuit, I'd use the internal DACs for that.

I would postulate that a good DAC would eliminate the *need* for your tubed preamp.  The TacT/Altmann combination is superb, not leaving me missing the Modwright pre.  Of course, I'm also running a 45 SET amp which does help bridge the gap.   

On the flip side, if you end up running the internal converters of the EQ your tubed pre may not be soft enough to hide the problems substandard DACs can display.

At any rate, going to room equalization is not a step toward the simpler.  It certainly can be rewarding but its a foggy road that can have twists and expensive turns.

[Rick Craig]

hi all,

i am considering a digital room correction/crossover system.  i do not do home theatre, i do not want any preamp function, as i will still be using my tube preamp.  most of my listening is to analog source - fm - tho i also listen to analog vinyl, & cd.  i actively cross over to subs.  present speakers are not bi-amp capable, tho in the future, i might want to try active crossover bi-amplification w/line-source speakers, so i would like tri-amp capability.  from what i figure, the deqx unit w/o preamp is what i should be looking for.  but, i wanted comments from those who have tried these units.

thanks...

I looked at both units before purchasing the DEQX. With more complex systems I think the DEQX is a better choice. The TacT in my opinion is best with a subwoofer / mains system where I've heard it work quite well providing the sub crossover and room correction functions.

[duggie]

thanks, mike, for your comments.  now, i just need someone w/a deqx to chine in.     my understanding is that the deqx's built-in adc/dac is transparent enough to not get in the way, & that any negatives it introduces are more than compensated for w/the benefits its room correction  provides.

[duggie]

hi rick,

do you use your deqx as a preamp also?  do you run any analog sources?  do you think the tact would work better than the deqx for simple x-over/room correction?  it seems the tact's built-in adc/dac might be limiting?

thanks...

I looked at both units before purchasing the DEQX. With more complex systems I think the DEQX is a better choice. The TacT in my opinion is best with a subwoofer / mains system where I've heard it work quite well providing the sub crossover and room correction functions.

[miklorsmith]

I don't mean to overstate the limitations of the TacT converters.  I think the ADC units are quite good.  The DAC converters are nice by themselves - without a direct comparison I don't think you'd hate them.  Of course it depends on the rest of the system as well.

For what it's worth, the DACs I've tried by comparison have been NOS units that I personally prefer.  I don't think the onboard units are worse than a good, conventional CDP for instance.

It's possible other listeners would miss the extra detail and sparkle that the onboard units provide, so I wouldn't say they're categorically offensive.

For reference, I like the simplest or nonexistant crossover versus a 4th order multiway, tubes over NuForce, and nonoversampling DACs.

[Don_S]

Hello Druggie,

The TacT ADC and  DAC cards can be modded by Anthony at Maui Mods/Aberdeen Components. http://www.mauimods.com/TacTAudio.htm  This route may be less expensive than an external DAC with IC and power cord.

Anthony's  customers for those two products have the highest compliments.  I cannot comment on the ADC and DAC mods directly because I am running my TacT 2.2X preamp in the all digital mode with three TacT S2150 amplifiers. All have been modded by Anthony and I can testify that his work is meticulous and a big improvement over stock.

Remember that a TacT preamp provides two ways to correct room imbalances and flavor the music to your taste.  First it provides room correction with each speaker and subwoofer measured and corrected independently.  Second it has parametric equalization that the user can apply on the fly and then save in a separate set of memories to apply as desired.  The primary set of memories (presets) on the preamp are the target curve (up to nine target curves) correction filters for each speaker and sub. Then each of the 9 presets has separate memories for storing parametric equalization if the user desires. 

I am not pushing TacT over DEQX.  I have no knowledge of DEQX and it may very well be your best choice for what you want to do.  Just providing options since I read in your post that you want: "all i am looking to do is get the ultimate in crossover performance & the ultimate in in-room response of my speakers."

Good luck,  Don

[Rick Craig]

hi rick,

do you use your deqx as a preamp also?  do you run any analog sources?  do you think the tact would work better than the deqx for simple x-over/room correction?  it seems the tact's built-in adc/dac might be limiting?

thanks...

I looked at both units before purchasing the DEQX. With more complex systems I think the DEQX is a better choice. The TacT in my opinion is best with a subwoofer / mains system where I've heard it work quite well providing the sub crossover and room correction functions.

I run it as a preamp (PDC-2.6P) with my transport going to the digital input and DVD to the analog input. The TacT in my opinion is better for someone looking for good subwoofer integration and room correction. If you want to do complex crossovers then the DEQX has more flexibility and you can tri-amp. I like the ability to correct the driver response before you apply the crossovers and room correction. That feature gives the DEQX an advantage over the TacT.

[JoshK]

Rick nailed it.   There is no best, just best for certain circumstances.  Are you just doing mains + subs or are you multi-amping your mains too? 

Regardless, running an analog preamp before any xo is sub optimal as it lowers the signal/noise ratio.  Technically to acheive the best performance, attenuation should be done after the xo and the DEQX has the option of a built-in preamp which I suggest you opt for, as it is undoubetly more transparent and less complicated then adding a multichannel preamp, all the connectors, etc.  The TACT has a similar feature.

[Brucemck]

Rick, I understand transport going to digital input of the DEQX, but how does the DVD go to the analog inputs?  Are you not using surround processing anywhere in the chain for DVD's, and/or why not take the digital out from your DVD directly to the digital in of the DEQX?

[audioengr]

I have heard the DEQX, both stock and modded, because I mod them.  The newer version DEQX is improved significantly over the older one, but still uses inexpensive caps for signal coupling.  This is a key area for upgrades.  I have done a considerable amount of work as a consultant for OverKill Audio in the UK, who uses the DEQX for their speaker systems.  They have compared the TACT system to the DEQX and concluded that the DEQX was better.  The DEQX uses the excellent AD1853 D/A chip that is also used in the Benchmark DAC-1.  It also uses the PGA2320 volume control chip, which sounds excellent as well.  If I were buying a DEQX I would order a new one or buy a used late model version with the analog volume control option, and then of course I would mod it.  Customers that have modded DEQX's have told me that they outperform even EMM labs DAC's.  The DEQX is really the future and one with a USB interface is really special.  DEQX has a new one in the works, but they tell me that it wil be late 2007 when it is available. It evidently uses a new SHARC processor.  They say that it will probably not have a USB interface.  In the mean-time I believe that Overkill Audio will be selling the modded DEQX with USB and I2S interface separately from their speakers next year.

[HChi]

I have heard the DEQX, both stock and modded, because I mod them.  The newer version DEQX is improved significantly over the older one, but still uses inexpensive caps for signal coupling.  This is a key area for upgrades.  I have done a considerable amount of work as a consultant for OverKill Audio in the UK, who uses the DEQX for their speaker systems.  They have compared the TACT system to the DEQX and concluded that the DEQX was better.  The DEQX uses the excellent AD1853 D/A chip that is also used in the Benchmark DAC-1.  It also uses the PGA2320 volume control chip, which sounds excellent as well.  If I were buying a DEQX I would order a new one or buy a used late model version with the analog volume control option, and then of course I would mod it.  Customers that have modded DEQX's have told me that they outperform even EMM labs DAC's.  The DEQX is really the future and one with a USB interface is really special.  DEQX has a new one in the works, but they tell me that it wil be late 2007 when it is available. It evidently uses a new SHARC processor.  They say that it will probably not have a USB interface.  In the mean-time I believe that Overkill Audio will be selling the modded DEQX with USB and I2S interface separately from their speakers next year.

With your extensive experience working with DEQX, would it be possible to have the processor upgraded in the old DEQX?  Also could you elaborate the advantage of having the analog volume control?  Thanks.

Howard

[ekovalsky]

I was told a few years ago by the former USA distributor of Overkill that TacT was actually the first choice, but ultimately DEQX was chosen because TacT did not want to pair their product with a particular speaker system, other than their own of course.  DEQX is obviously more than willing to this -- Overkill, NHT, etc.  Whether this is true or not I don't know.  There was definitely some bad blood between the former USA distributor and the manufacturer.

Although I don't have any first hand experience with the DEQX I have read much about it and also studied the manual.  For a multi-way system (up to triamping) with hi res disc or vinyl front end and conventional solid state or tube amps it is probably the best choice.

For a system with exclusively or primarily PCM digital source, i.e. CD or DVD transport or music server, the TacT is ideal if you are willing to invest in their digital amps and forego the manufacturer's software for a free third party solution (TACS). All D/A and A/D conversion is eliminated along with analog interconnects.  Volume control is eliminatd, with output attenuation controlled by manipulating the amplifier output voltage.  The TacT digital amps are basically programmable DACS that have sufficient voltage and current capability to drive loudspeakers.

As with the DEQX the stock TacT products are mass produced and improvements can be realized via upgrades, particularly to the power supply, capacitors and other passive parts.  I would love to see a USB or I2S input mod for the TacT... 

[HChi]

...
Although I don't have any first hand experience with the DEQX I have read much about it and also studied the manual.  For a multi-way system (up to triamping) with hi res disc or vinyl front end and conventional solid state or tube amps it is probably the best choice.

For a system with exclusively or primarily PCM digital source, i.e. CD or DVD transport or music server, the TacT is ideal if you are willing to invest in their digital amps and forego the manufacturer's software for a free third party solution (TACS). All D/A and A/D conversion is eliminated along with analog interconnects.  Volume control is eliminatd, with output attenuation controlled by manipulating the amplifier output voltage.  The TacT digital amps are basically programmable DACS that have sufficient voltage and current capability to drive loudspeakers.

As with the DEQX the stock TacT products are mass produced and improvements can be realized via upgrades, particularly to the power supply, capacitors and other passive parts.  I would love to see a USB or I2S input mod for the TacT... 

If memory serves me right, I think DEQX can be daisy-chained to become a multi-way (4+) system.  I think with optional digital board DEQX could also output digitally without D/A.   I have always wondered how it would compare to Tact 2.2X/P if S2150 amps are used.

Eric, could you also elaborate a bit on the AudioControl Mic and its difference to the stock Behringer?  Thanks.