[retiredguy]

Images, you indicated that you already have an AVA modified PAS3.  It might be possible for them to upgrade your current preamp to a T-8.  The AVA site indicates that the price to upgrade a SuperPAS 3i to a T-8 is $699.  As you already know, the cost of the remote control is $300--which brings the total to $999.  Another option would be to have Frank sell your PAS3 and apply the money to a T-8 with remote, though I have no idea whether this would fit within you budget.  I mention these options for 2 reasons:  First, you seem to have had good luck with your previous AVA equipment and second because I have a T-8 and am very happy with it.  I can tell you that I have owned both an Audible Illusions 3A and an Audible Illusions L-1.  In my system the T-8 is better. 

FWIW, before buying the T-8 I did about 2 years of research, looking into various preamps and talking to designers and manufacturers.  Being older, I really wanted to have a remote control.  Several manufacturers indicated that they could provide a remote control, but that it degraded the sound.  Others said that they did not sell a unit with remote control because it compromised the sound.  Frank said that his remote control did not negatively affect the sound and that he would not have offered remote control if it did.  I have never heard a T-8 with manual volume control, so I cannot independently verify Frank's claim.  Based upon it's own merits, I am very pleased with the sound of my T-8.  I am also really happy I decided to get the remote control option--even though it cost $300 more.

All of this is not to say that the T-8 is the best preamp in the world, or even that it would be the best preamp for you.  Nor is meant to denigrate any of the other fine suggestions you have been given.  I do believe it would give you a very good preamp which meets your stated requirements and which would be within your budget.   

[Images]

Aloha retiredguy!

I see you are a new member here at AC.  I am glad you are on board, especially in that your post largely mirrors my own suspicions/inclinations.  I also have been considering a new preamp for a few years.  More than a few months ago I spoke with Frank Van Alstine about my options with the SuperPas 3i currently in my system.  After a little discussion about just servicing the unit, we concluded I would be better off "trading it in" for the T8.  I don't know if he would resell it, cannibalise it, or what, but I'm figuring I would at least get the $300 cost of the remote out of the deal.  In other words the SuperPas and the remote would be a wash, and my out-of-pocket for the T8 would be $1099, the current list price for the unit w/o remote.  This would be in my budget and still get me the remote.  The fact that you like yours better than the AI Mod 3A is very encouraging.  Incidentally, he did tell me there is no room in the  chassis of the SuperPas for the remote upgrade.   So, installing a remote on my current preamp was not an option.

What I know today that I didn't yesterday is that my primary contenders are the Belles unit (still pretty intrigued by this on the used market), the Odyssey Candella -- which I have yet to find on-line or on Klaus' website, maybe the MAD (Mapletree Audio Design) if I can get it with a remote, and the AVA T8. 

I appreciate your comments, retiredguy, as I do from everyone who has so kindly offered opinions is the past 24 hrs or so.  ...and I still think that a phenomenon such as my willingness to take advice from a Packers fan ranks right up there with the parting of the Red Sea.

[James Romeyn]

(remotes do nothing for sound quality)

I respect all opinions here.  Just a counterpoint to the belief that remotes do nothing for sound quality: If a listening level is 1 dB too high or low vs. what would otherwise be your personal perfect level for that particular piece of music, one might be able to reasonably say that that 1 dB = about 33% THD vs. the otherwise perfect listening level.  I apologize if my math is way off, but if 3 dB is considered an approximate doubling of acoustic power, then 3 dB = 100% distortion vs. the perfect level.   

No need to get the torch out if you disagree.  Just say so & your vote is noted & recorded. 

If this is a valid point, then to the extent a remote allows a listener to more closely approach their own personal perfect level for each sone, it indeed may contribute great value.  If the manual level control can be situated at or very near your listening seat, toss this post in the wastebin.

[Rob Babcock]

I agree- it's difficult to take the word of a Packer's fan!   But for a Fudgie, Max is a pretty good guy.

[MaxCast]

Better yet, call Klaus about the Candella...he's a Packer fan too.  aa

 

[wilfredt]

FWIW I just wanted to second the Mapletree option. I own a Line 2A SE and I am extremely happy with its sound and has stunned many of my friends who own much more expensive gear. Also I would like to mention that Dr. Peppard is a great guy and is very helpful to accommodate any reasonable customizations, if you so require, to the unit as well as excellent in case you go to him with support type of questions/advice.

Good Luck in your preamp hunt.

[retiredguy]

"Aloha" to you too, Images.  Sorry, I didn't realize that you had already talked to Frank!     Anyway, I see that you live in beautiful (but congested) Honolulu.  That being the case, I would like to direct you to a website of a fellow Hawaiian:  www.audiotropic.net.   
Just in case you weren't aware that you have a top designer close to home.

[lazydays]

Gentlemen, or Gentlewomen, if that should apply, these are all very useful comments.  I appreciate them.  I remember a review by Martin DeWulf in Bound for Sound five or more years ago.  He then made mention of the SAS 10A, and still does.  I’ve had that preamp on my mind ever since.  I looked at the SAS website about a month ago and the most recent version of just the 10A is above $1.5K, if I remember correctly – plus no remote.  (Correct me if I am wrong.)  Still, this unit appeals to me, but not my wallet, and I don’t think I have ever seen one used on ‘gon.  I also have wondered… how far away is Morton IL (Steve Sammet) from Kewanee IL (Martin DeWulf)?

Mr. DeWulf  has possibly influenced my audio purchasing habits more than any other writer.  He has had good things to say about the AI 3A.  I could well consider this unit.  It certainly has a proven track record, though it is also known for gobbling tubes.  Again, no remote, but if push came to shove, this is a sacrifice I could make if the sonic benefits truly merited it.  (I suspect my wife would be afraid to touch it though, due to the dual controls.  And in case it crosses your mind that that could be a good thing, my experience has been that my domestic tranquility is greatly served by keeping my wife involved in this “hobby.”)

I am afraid of anything Melos.  My apologies, duggie.  My concern is where would I have it serviced, or get replacement parts.  Maybe I need to know the mod artist you spoke of.  Something I’ve heard over the past several years (I guess that makes it a rumor) is that the dependability of the Melos products is not all it should be.  Maybe, maybe not, but it gives me cause to pause.  For example, I drive a pickup truck.  I don’t drive it because it is stylish.  I drive it because it is completely dependable.  I admire this same quality in audio gear.  This dependability issue also is something addressed in the Channel Islands Audio products, but there is no tube preamp in Dusty’s offerings.

Soooo, that brings us to the Candella.  Maybe two weeks ago I looked for this item on the Odyssey site.  I didn’t find it.  So, I forgot about it.  From what I have gathered, it’s predecessor was not too successful, so it stands to reason that a new offering would hopefully overcompensate for the, was it the ‘Tempest’?  The life of an independent audio firm/rep/manufacturer hinges, perhaps completely, on consumer confidence.  All this means that with a reputable company like Odyssey,  the Candella should be an over achiever.  Are there reviews available?

I only have one ‘issue’ with the Candella recommendation:  It comes from a Packer fan!!  I’ve been a Vikings fan for more than 30 years, which is a real study in masochism.  To take advise from a Packers fan is really pouring salt in the wound.  However, thankfully, bunky’s post has made the wisdom offered by MaxCast much more digestible.  I thank you both. 

I will have to look into the Candella.  I’ve not as yet had a chance to follow the links provided by bpage, so I can make no comment on anything with a Korato nameplate.  I would prefer to invest in a product with a track record, however.  I make a poor early adopter.

Oddly, I noticed that no one has mentioned any product by Mike Sanders, Quicksilver Audio.  Along with the SAS, I have always wondered about this company and Mr. Sanders designs.  Is there a reason, I wonder, that Quicksilver has gone unmentioned, or are these unadvertised tube designs just not widely known?

Again, my appreciation for all of your comments.  I live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, so it is hard for me to audition components – unless they are found at Best Buy or Circuit City.

While I was writing Weez  just posted.  He reminded me of how disappointed I was with my first ‘hind-end’ preamp, a CJ 10A.  It sounded like the audio signal was being transmitted behind a wet dishrag.  Talk about veils!  Perhaps something was wrong with it.  He also reminded me of how I have previously been a satisfied customer of Frank Van Alstine.  My very first amp was a AVA modded Dynaco 70.  I currently use a modded PAS 3 from AVA.  I was going to get a T7, but then he discontinued it.  Now he has an “ultra” product line with a $300 option for a remote.  This, regrettably, brings it above my budget.  The Grounded Grid I also have heard good things about, but if I buy one used, then the issue becomes, “Who put this together and, my god, I hope they solder better than I do.”  Oh, the Shrimp is a possibility, but again, no remote.

Let me say thank you again.  All your opinions are welcome... and invited.                 

   

Please allow me to chime in!
    First I've never heard an Odyssey Tempest, but have some listening time in front of the Candella, the Quicksilver, and the Conrad Johnson 10A, pluse one more from ASL and a couple other solid state preamps. Something must be wrong with your CJ. Mine was completely rebuilt at the factory right before I came into it. It is a touch lean, but never veiled. Think maybe the very high end is it's weak spot, but may be a little light on the bottom end as well (note I'm not a deep bass freak).
    I replaced my Quicksilver line stage with the Candella about a 120 hours ago, and after fifteen minutes I knew the Quicksilver was history. The reason I went with the Quicksilver in the first place was for acoustic jazz. I use a 40 watt tubed amp (more on this later) driving a pair of Meadowlark Kestrel Hot Rods. The speakers were bought for the ability to do live acoustic music, and my only complaint is that I don't have a pair of Shearwater Hot Rods. I use a Jolida CD100A as well as a Marantz 8260 along with a Wright WP100 phono stage and a Acoustic Signature Final Tool turn table. I am pretty happy with the setup, but will confess to an upgrade bug in the analog section (I'm keeping the turn table).
    When I first powered up the Candella I knew I liked what I was hearing. The sound stage was a little small, but expected this. After about fifteen hours you really could tell a difference in a big way. At that time the key boards were the best I've ever heard, and really noticed that everything seemed to move with much more athority. The lower end was gaining some serious punch. The upright bass was just begining to show itself, but a little light weight. The trumpet was already excellent, but maybe wanting some more in the upper scale. Drums were pretty much there, but the brass still wasn't. The tenor sax was distant, but had a nice sound. At the thirty hour point the upright bass was really starting to open up, and at the same time being very detailed. The bottom end of the bass was starting to sound like a good quality instrument. Started to notice something that has alway alluded me in the past. The actual distance between each piece of brass in the drum set. Could hear the sizzle of the snares even after the sticks had moved onto something else. There was absolutly no rumble in the bass!!! Tenor sax was moving forward, but still a touch light. Found myself wanting the last two octives really bad (this preamp will make you hungry for more and more). Somewhere close to forty hours I had the full tenor sax, and somewhere close to fifty hours I could almost feel the strings accross the bridge vibrate. By now the brass has got a luster to it that you only hear live. The sound stage is the best to be in front of me. I notice things that never showed up with the others. The tenor moving from five feet to the left of center to way right. The speed of the Candella is really showing itself. By now only a very small handfull of people have ever heard the Candella, and all that heard it loved it. My brother dropped by, and his first comment was that he'd never heard anything like it! Begged me to play "You Don't Love Me" by the Alman Brothers. Later on my sons dropped by while I was playing some George Mraz. The oldest two were stunned. Josh caught the speed of the system right away (about a hundred hours). This preamp does vocals better than the Quicksilver. Bessie Smith sounds so real she's scarey. Same thing with Alberta Hunter. Sound wise I just don't know what more I could want for. Maybe one more source input would be about it.
    I have no idea what the insides of this unit looks like, so I wont comment on interior build quality. The ouside is very well done. The first thing you notice when you pick it up is that it's not a light weight. I sorta figured that if the new preamp was built like their amps, then it'd be built like a tank. I have two mono extremes that are well broke in waiting on the new cables. But the funny thing is the tube amp never has sounded so good! Still I know what those two mono blocs sound like, and am quite anxious.
     Please note this isn't a review, but just simple observations. I gain nothing from these rambelings, and even had to buy my own beer.
Gary

[Images]

Lazydays,

Thanks so much for your quite informative comments.  There seems to be an abundance of favorable comments about the Candella in this thread.  Also, I thank you for comparingthe Quicksilver and the Candella.  This is quite helpful. 

The reservation I have about the Candella is that it only has three inputs, though I could live with that if I had to.  However, I do prefer to have a tape loop, HT bypass, external processor loop, or someway of combining my primary two channel preamp with a home theater system of some sort.  I now do that with the tape loop on the AVS Super Pass3i.  Is there some crafty way to do this with the Candella?

[lazydays]

Better yet, call Klaus about the Candella...he's a Packer fan too.  aa

 

The first impression I got of him (when he picked up a pair of amps from me) was that he should have been a nose tackle in the NFL! Kind of a Klaus "too tall" Bunge.
glt

[lazydays]

Lazydays,

Thanks so much for your quite informative comments.  There seems to be an abundance of favorable comments about the Candella in this thread.  Also, I thank you for comparingthe Quicksilver and the Candella.  This is quite helpful. 

The reservation I have about the Candella is that it only has three inputs, though I could live with that if I had to.  However, I do prefer to have a tape loop, HT bypass, external processor loop, or someway of combining my primary two channel preamp with a home theater system of some sort.  I now do that with the tape loop on the AVS Super Pass3i.  Is there some crafty way to do this with the Candella?

Klaus and I had a phone conversation the other night about a completely unrelated subject. First thing he wanted to know was how the preamp was sounding. I was rather candid in my discussions with him, and he knows by now that I don't pull a punch. The fourth input came to light, as well as a tape loop. I maybe dead wrong here, but I gather he was receptive about a fourth input (I'd love to see five myself). He also brought up the tape loop, and I guess he has gave it some thought. I'd suggest a phone call would be in order here.
     A slightly different angle here on this same preamp is the way it came about. It was not a cost is no object idea, but an extremely good product at a very reasonable price tag. When you add a tape loop, more inputs, and of course the remote, you are adding to the overall price tag. Mine dosn't have the remote, and so far have not missed it. Still I'd like to see him in the future come out with a Candella "Extreme" that would use even better tubes, and whatever they do inside the thing to make it jump up another notch or two. Problem with most of us is that we are never satisfied. As I write this I'm contemplating a second tone arm on my turntable just for mono LP's (nobody ever said I wasn't nuts!), and a new phono stage. Maybe my problem is that I've got too many little schemes in my head!
Gary