[Images]

Regarding a new preamp, I am willing to drop up to $1200, so obviously I am considering used pieces.  Two have particularly caught my interest:
Belles 21A
BAT VK-3i

I also am curious about the Marsh P2000t, and I am willing to consider an Audio Research SP16. 

Hopefully, some of you might have first hand experience, particularly with the first two pieces, and be able to point out some comparative strengths or weaknesses of these two tubed linestages.  (I do know that a phono stage is not available as an option on the Belles.  Mr. Belles markets a separate phono stage.) 

Not wishing to offend anyone, but my bias lies strongly in the tubed camp.  There is no need to mention any SS, or passive units.  Lastly, I would prefer a remote controlled preamp.

I listen to primarily orchestral music, chamber music, and a little bit of jazz.  However, a little "mountain music" is just fine on occasion.  Amps are Channel Island Audio D-100s driving 87 dB sensitive MTM DIY Scanspeak monitors from BESL Engineering. 

I thank you in advance for your comments and opinions.

[mattybumpkin]

I have the Belles, first stock, and then with the Auricap upgrade.  Very dynamic, detailed and transparent, not overly tubey.  The Auricap tweek made it more musical.  A great pre.

Think of considering the Eastern Electric Minimax too.

[MaxCast]

Odyssey Candella.
You say remote.  What functions do you want on the remote?  you will have good luck finding volume control only but much fewer choices for input select on the remote.

Bryan, any specs or feature list?

[thorman]

Very nice looking Audible Illusions 3A on Audiogon ( very light use ) ,in your pricerange .Also has a phono stage to boot... Very well reviewed peice ....

[bpape]

Still trying to get the new things together.  The Korato site is kind of sparce but worth a look.

http://www.korato.com/product.php?id=94

This is the base unit Scott Faller used for his review of the VH Teflon and oil caps

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0705/joeaudiophile8.htm

Remote is optional.

Bryan

[bunky]

Very nice looking Audible Illusions 3A on Audiogon ( very light use ) ,in your pricerange .Also has a phono stage to boot... Very well reviewed peice ....

I happen to own both the BAT VK 3i linestage with a remote control and the new Odyssey Candela linestage with a remote control and in my opinion the Candela is a breath of fresh air. it is far more transparent,much faster,and reveals greater detail than the VK 3i with a build Quality that rivals much more expensive preamplifiers.keep in mind that the VK 3i is no slouch,but it seems somewhat veiled and slow in comparison to the Candela.i have rolled tubes extensively in the VK 3i and i have found that the Candela is also far more receptive to tube rolling than the VK 3i is. i am currently using a pair of 1962 vintage NOS Amperex Holland ECC186/7316 PQ's in my Candela and the results are stunning a Candela with remote control is slightly over your $1200.00 budget,but considering it comes with with a twenty year warranty it kind of seems like a no brainer to me. good luck....WCW III

[chadh]

Isn't there a stripped-down version of the SAS 10A (without phono, and without the monitor function, I think) that goes for only around $1500.  Certainly used, it would fall into your price range.  By all reports it's very good.

Chad

[95bcwh]

The SAS 10A doesn't have remote control though.

Isn't there a stripped-down version of the SAS 10A (without phono, and without the monitor function, I think) that goes for only around $1500.  Certainly used, it would fall into your price range.  By all reports it's very good.

Chad

[duggie]

i would recommend a used melos ma333r or sha-gold-r.  i love my fully modded ma333r.  killer, even tho melos is no longer in biz.  (it was killer in stock form, when i got it.)  i am out of the preamp market; have been for quite a few years.  on my recommendation, an audio bud of mine bought a stock sha-gold-r.  he sold his eastern electric minimax a week after he got the melos.  he's now looking forward to getting the sha-gold-r back from a modder.   aa

several years back, when i was considering a melos, i mentioned this to a dealer who used to distribute them before melos went under.  when i asked him about cary, audible illusions or rogue, the dealer said "just get the melos if you have a line on a nice one.  and the dealer sold all three!?!  i was shocked, to say the least.     all i can say is that my ma333r was hands down far superior to a rogue 99 magnum & a cary slp98 that i owned.  i should have taken his advice from the start; i bought a rogue, sold it after getting the cary; then sold it after getting the melos.

here's one a notch below the ma333r, but w/o remote.  a good enuff price, tho, so you could get it modded, have remote installed, & still be at your budget:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1168475400

[marvda1]

i would take the belles 21a w/aricap upgrade in a heartbeat. there's one now on audiogon for $1295 or best offer.  i just purchased one new and received it friday. this thing is detailed, transparent, fast and just plain musical.  when i was researching preamps i talked to one guy who owned the 21a and said it bested the bat 51se(model?) $6000 preamp in "his" system.

[WEEZ]

FWIW; there is a a new CJ 10B w/ phono on Audiogon new for $1090...(no remote)...it wasn't clear if phono was a requirement.

 I'd give up on the remote idea and have a look at the Manley that's for sale there (3 months old) for $1200; or consider a T8 from Frank brand new.

(remotes do nothing for sound quality)

One more; if you're a kit builder...consider a Grounded Grid from Tanscendent. Even assembled it's a killer unit at it's price.

just some options at reasonable cost....

WEEZ

[Images]

Gentlemen, or Gentlewomen, if that should apply, these are all very useful comments.  I appreciate them.  I remember a review by Martin DeWulf in Bound for Sound five or more years ago.  He then made mention of the SAS 10A, and still does.  I’ve had that preamp on my mind ever since.  I looked at the SAS website about a month ago and the most recent version of just the 10A is above $1.5K, if I remember correctly – plus no remote.  (Correct me if I am wrong.)  Still, this unit appeals to me, but not my wallet, and I don’t think I have ever seen one used on ‘gon.  I also have wondered… how far away is Morton IL (Steve Sammet) from Kewanee IL (Martin DeWulf)?

Mr. DeWulf  has possibly influenced my audio purchasing habits more than any other writer.  He has had good things to say about the AI 3A.  I could well consider this unit.  It certainly has a proven track record, though it is also known for gobbling tubes.  Again, no remote, but if push came to shove, this is a sacrifice I could make if the sonic benefits truly merited it.  (I suspect my wife would be afraid to touch it though, due to the dual controls.  And in case it crosses your mind that that could be a good thing, my experience has been that my domestic tranquility is greatly served by keeping my wife involved in this “hobby.”)

I am afraid of anything Melos.  My apologies, duggie.  My concern is where would I have it serviced, or get replacement parts.  Maybe I need to know the mod artist you spoke of.  Something I’ve heard over the past several years (I guess that makes it a rumor) is that the dependability of the Melos products is not all it should be.  Maybe, maybe not, but it gives me cause to pause.  For example, I drive a pickup truck.  I don’t drive it because it is stylish.  I drive it because it is completely dependable.  I admire this same quality in audio gear.  This dependability issue also is something addressed in the Channel Islands Audio products, but there is no tube preamp in Dusty’s offerings.

Soooo, that brings us to the Candella.  Maybe two weeks ago I looked for this item on the Odyssey site.  I didn’t find it.  So, I forgot about it.  From what I have gathered, it’s predecessor was not too successful, so it stands to reason that a new offering would hopefully overcompensate for the, was it the ‘Tempest’?  The life of an independent audio firm/rep/manufacturer hinges, perhaps completely, on consumer confidence.  All this means that with a reputable company like Odyssey,  the Candella should be an over achiever.  Are there reviews available?

I only have one ‘issue’ with the Candella recommendation:  It comes from a Packer fan!!  I’ve been a Vikings fan for more than 30 years, which is a real study in masochism.  To take advise from a Packers fan is really pouring salt in the wound.  However, thankfully, bunky’s post has made the wisdom offered by MaxCast much more digestible.  I thank you both. 

I will have to look into the Candella.  I’ve not as yet had a chance to follow the links provided by bpage, so I can make no comment on anything with a Korato nameplate.  I would prefer to invest in a product with a track record, however.  I make a poor early adopter.

Oddly, I noticed that no one has mentioned any product by Mike Sanders, Quicksilver Audio.  Along with the SAS, I have always wondered about this company and Mr. Sanders designs.  Is there a reason, I wonder, that Quicksilver has gone unmentioned, or are these unadvertised tube designs just not widely known?

Again, my appreciation for all of your comments.  I live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, so it is hard for me to audition components – unless they are found at Best Buy or Circuit City.

While I was writing Weez  just posted.  He reminded me of how disappointed I was with my first ‘hind-end’ preamp, a CJ 10A.  It sounded like the audio signal was being transmitted behind a wet dishrag.  Talk about veils!  Perhaps something was wrong with it.  He also reminded me of how I have previously been a satisfied customer of Frank Van Alstine.  My very first amp was a AVA modded Dynaco 70.  I currently use a modded PAS 3 from AVA.  I was going to get a T7, but then he discontinued it.  Now he has an “ultra” product line with a $300 option for a remote.  This, regrettably, brings it above my budget.  The Grounded Grid I also have heard good things about, but if I buy one used, then the issue becomes, “Who put this together and, my god, I hope they solder better than I do.”  Oh, the Shrimp is a possibility, but again, no remote.

Let me say thank you again.  All your opinions are welcome... and invited.                 

   

[chadh]

How could I not have thought of this earlier?  Recent buzz around these parts has been that the Mapletree Ultra 4SE preamp is shockingly good for the money ($800 or thereabouts).  Check it out here: http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/ultra4.htm  Also these threads might provide some interesting reading: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=27412.0 and http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31067.0

I'm not sure that Dr Peppard includes a remote option, but you could always ask.

If you're willing to consider smaller outfits that often fly under the radar, you might be interested in the offerings from Space Tech Labs (http://www.space-tech-lab.com ).  For what it's worth, my pre-amp comes from this establishment and I'm very happy.  Unfortunately, I don't have a huge selection of tubed pre-amps with which to compare.  But if you dig around on Audio Asylum, you'll find a handful of reviews of Albert's pre-amps that are very, very favorable.  I'm 99% certain that Albert would include a remote for you if you wanted, and will certainly customize a unit to fit your needs.

Chad

[Lkdog]

Kewanee is about an hour from Morton. 
I was just at SAS Audio to meet with Steve and he did have a used 10A for sale recently.
No remote and he won't do one from what I can tell. Total purist.

Just went through the same search, but at a lower price point. Considered all used/new under $1000
with remote.
I ended up going with an Audio Mirror PP1 (tube pre with line and phono stage unit).
Vlad is asking $899 for the unit.

FWIW, I am also getting an Odyssey dual mono amp and Klaus knows what he is doing so the Candela mght be worth looking into.

Good luck.

[JoshK]

All these comes down to personal taste and I am sure most all these recommendations are good ones.  I am just saying I heard the mapletree preamp and its a good one.  Any which way you choose, you probably can't go wrong. 

[James Romeyn]

I heard the MapleTree 2 whatever, about $550.  If you can live w/o remote you could not beat that preamp for the same price new or used if your life depended on it, IMO.  Cheaper maybe in kit form, don't know.

[Kishore]

You have plenty of choices I would like to recommend Bent Audio preamp and notice that Marbles is selling his for a very good price.

Cheers,
Kishore

[JLM]

I'd look into SinglePower (the headphone amp, but can be factory modded to be used as a pre-amp).  Available in 9 or octal tubes.

Another option is the AVA T8 (12AT7A's) right here at AC ($1398 with remote).  And Frank offers a couple of other options and traditionally has offered future upgrade options for his products.

[Parnelli777]

Can't say enough about this little preamp from George Wright:

http://www.wright-sound.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=10

[Frihed91]

I want to endorse chadh's Mapletree recommendation very strongly.  People often refuse to believe that you can get a high quality line stage for $650 (Line 2A SE Special Edition).  Add $200 and you get the phonostage added (Ultra 4ASE).