[redsierra]

Hello.

I am VERY confused about a few of the settings in the SP2. 

First, when would one select "Pass Thru" for a surround mode with either a 2 channel or a 5.1 source?  For 5.1, I currently have the processor set to use "PLII Film" for any of my 5.1 movies (I am speaking of the "Pass Thru" setting in the surround modes NOT the "Bypass" button).

Secondly, with my 5.1 set up, according to the manual, I understand that the only THX modes that should be available to me are "Cinema", and "Music".  When I select "THX " mode, the "Mode"  button is inactive and the only "THX" mode that I can get is "THX Cinema".  I cannot select "Music" as stated in the manual.

With a 2 channel source I can get the following in "THX" modes by using the "mode" button: 
PLII MOVIE + THX, NEO 6 CINEMA + THX, STEREO + THX, and PL + THX.  BUT, If I select the input for a 2 channel source (say CD) in the "Surround" mode and set it to "PLII Music" and then press "THX" I can get "PLII Music + THX", then if I press the "Mode" button it will take me through all of the afformentioned modes but NOT "PLII Music".  The only way that I can get "PLII Music + THX" back again is to change the source to any other input and then change back to the initial input source (CD in this example), in "Surround" mode, select "PLII Music" again and then press "THX"! When in the "THX" mode no modes can be forced by using the remote codes.

Thirdly, in "Surround" mode for a 2 channel source, pressing "Mode" and will take you through all of the possible surround modes as listed in the manual, but not for a 5.1 source, which I would understand as being correct.  So, for a 5.1 source the "Mode" button is inoperable.  BUT yet I can force any surround mode that I want for the 5.1 source by using the remote codes (the "Mode" button seems to be inactive for a 5.1 source when in surround mode).  Shouldn't these be disabled when a 5.1 source is present?

Lastly, there is no explanation (to my knowledge) for the "THX" settings in the set up menu:  RE EQ, ASA, and BGC. 

In the SP 1.7 manual you used to have a chart showing what modes were applicable to what sources.  I found it benificial, but it isnt in the SP 2 manual.

I look forward to your response.

Thanks,

Dwight

[James Tanner]

Hello.

I am VERY confused about a few of the settings in the SP2. 

First, when would one select "Pass Thru" for a surround mode with either a 2 channel or a 5.1 source?  For 5.1, I currently have the processor set to use "PLII Film" for any of my 5.1 movies (I am speaking of the "Pass Thru" setting in the surround modes NOT the "Bypass" button).

Secondly, with my 5.1 set up, according to the manual, I understand that the only THX modes that should be available to me are "Cinema", and "Music".  When I select "THX " mode, the "Mode"  button is inactive and the only "THX" mode that I can get is "THX Cinema".  I cannot select "Music" as stated in the manual.

With a 2 channel source I can get the following in "THX" modes by using the "mode" button: 
PLII MOVIE + THX, NEO 6 CINEMA + THX, STEREO + THX, and PL + THX.  BUT, If I select the input source (say CD) in the "Surround" mode and set it to "PLII Music" and then press "THX" I can get "PLII Music + THX", then if I press the "Mode" button it will take me through all of the afformentioned modes but NOT "PLII Music".  The only way that I can get "PLII Music + THX" back again is to change the source to any other input and then change back to the initial input source (CD in this example), in "Surround" mode, select "PLII Music" again and then press "THX"! When in the "THX" mode no modes can be forced by using the remote codes.

Thirdly, in "Surround" mode for a 2 channel source, pressing "Mode" and will take you through all of the possible surround modes as listed in the manual, but not for a 5.1 source, which I would understand as being correct.  So, for a 5.1 source the "Mode" button is inoperable.  BUT yet I can force any surround mode that I want for the 5.1 source by using the remote codes (the "Mode" button seems to be inactive for a 5.1 source when in surround mode).  Shouldn't these be disabled when a 5.1 source is present?

Lastly, there is no explanation (to my knowledge) for the "THX" settings in the set up menu:  RE EQ, ASA, and BGC. 

In the SP 1.7 manual you used to have a chart showing what modes were applicable to what sources.  I found it benificial, but it isnt in the SP 2 manual.

I look forward to your response.

Thanks,

Dwight

Hi Dwight,

I will leave these questions to Mike Pickett. He is more familiar with these options than I am. I do not use any of these modes in my setup. I only use the 5.1 and 7.1 DD and DTS modes and the Bypass modes.

Mike is away till next week.

We are working on a new SP2 manual as a lot has changed since first manual was put together.



james

[redsierra]

OK James.

In the mean time though, when should the bypass be used?

When watching regular DD 5.1 movies should it be set at PLII movie?

Thanks,

Dwight

[James Tanner]

OK James.

In the mean time though, when should the bypass be used?

When watching regular DD 5.1 movies should it be set at PLII movie?

Thanks,

Dwight

By-pass is used if you want to listen to an ANALOG 2-Channel input and do not want to go through any digital stage.

james

[redsierra]

OK, sorry I was refering to the "Pass Thru" not hard "bypass" button.

Later,

Dwight

[James Tanner]

Hi Dwight,

Try the Mode button with the new software you downloaded - some of your questions should be answered.

james

[redsierra]

Nope.  Everything performs the same way as stated.

Later,

Dwight

[guest41324]

Hello.

I am VERY confused about a few of the settings in the SP2. 

First, when would one select "Pass Thru" for a surround mode with either a 2 channel or a 5.1 source?  For 5.1, I currently have the processor set to use "PLII Film" for any of my 5.1 movies (I am speaking of the "Pass Thru" setting in the surround modes NOT the "Bypass" button).

Secondly, with my 5.1 set up, according to the manual, I understand that the only THX modes that should be available to me are "Cinema", and "Music".  When I select "THX " mode, the "Mode"  button is inactive and the only "THX" mode that I can get is "THX Cinema".  I cannot select "Music" as stated in the manual.

With a 2 channel source I can get the following in "THX" modes by using the "mode" button: 
PLII MOVIE + THX, NEO 6 CINEMA + THX, STEREO + THX, and PL + THX.  BUT, If I select the input source (say CD) in the "Surround" mode and set it to "PLII Music" and then press "THX" I can get "PLII Music + THX", then if I press the "Mode" button it will take me through all of the afformentioned modes but NOT "PLII Music".  The only way that I can get "PLII Music + THX" back again is to change the source to any other input and then change back to the initial input source (CD in this example), in "Surround" mode, select "PLII Music" again and then press "THX"! When in the "THX" mode no modes can be forced by using the remote codes.

Thirdly, in "Surround" mode for a 2 channel source, pressing "Mode" and will take you through all of the possible surround modes as listed in the manual, but not for a 5.1 source, which I would understand as being correct.  So, for a 5.1 source the "Mode" button is inoperable.  BUT yet I can force any surround mode that I want for the 5.1 source by using the remote codes (the "Mode" button seems to be inactive for a 5.1 source when in surround mode).  Shouldn't these be disabled when a 5.1 source is present?

Lastly, there is no explanation (to my knowledge) for the "THX" settings in the set up menu:  RE EQ, ASA, and BGC. 

In the SP 1.7 manual you used to have a chart showing what modes were applicable to what sources.  I found it benificial, but it isnt in the SP 2 manual.

I look forward to your response.

Thanks,

Dwight

Try this:
http://thx.com/mod/products/technologies.html

[redsierra]

Try this:
http://thx.com/mod/products/technologies.html

Thanks Serendipity.

I think that the THX link only did one thing for me and that is reinforce that "THX Music" is not available with 5.1 speaker setups (contrary to the Bryston SP2 manual).  It confirms that the "mode" button on the SP2 being inactive and ONLY "THX Cinema" being available for a 5.1 speaker set up with a 5.1 source SHOULD be correct (if I understand correctly).

I did some testing by setting the processor up in 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 formats with "THX" selected (even though I only have a 5.1 speaker set up) to see what modes were available.  This is what I found:

5.1 setup with 5.1 source:  THX Cinema (as noted above).
6.1 setup with 5.1 source:  THX Cinema, THX Surround EX
7.1 setup with 5.1 source:  THX Cinema, THX Ultra 2 Cinema, THX Surround EX, THX Music, THX Games

So, again, "THX Music" is only available with speaker setups of 7.1

As far as 2 channel sources go, this is what I found (correct...I dont know):

5.1 setup with 2 channel source:  PLII MOVIE + THX, NEO 6 CINEMA + THX, STEREO + THX CINEMA, and PL + THX
6.1 setup with 2 channel source:  PLII MOVIE + THX, NEO 6 CINEMA + THX, STEREO + THX CINEMA, and PL + THX (same as 5.1 setup)
7.1 setup with 2 channel source:  PLII MOVIE + THX, NEO 6 CINEMA + THX, STEREO + THX CINEMA, and PL + THX PLUS THX GAMES

If the above is correct then the following is a glitch and should be fixed as it shouldnt function in this manner:

BUT, If I select the input for a 2 channel source (say CD) in the "Surround" mode and set it to "PLII Music" and then press "THX" I can get "PLII Music + THX", then if I press the "Mode" button it will take me through all of the afformentioned modes but NOT "PLII Music".  The only way that I can get "PLII Music + THX" back again is to change the source to any other input and then change back to the initial input source (CD in this example), in "Surround" mode, select "PLII Music" again and then press "THX"!

So, I guess and the end of the day the following questions still remain:

Is it correct that "THX Music" is only available with a 7.1 speaker setup?
Are the modes that I have listed above correct for the 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 speaker setups with the 5.1 sources?
Are the modes that I have listed above correct for the 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 speaker setups with the 2 channel sources?
Will you fix the PLII Music glitch that I mentioned above?
When should "Passthru" be used?
What is the advised surround mode for 5.1 movies..."PLII Movie"? (I realize that I could also use "THX Cinema")
With a 5.1 speaker setup with a 5.1 source should you be able to force different listening modes using the remote codes even though the "mode" button wont do it?
Lastly, I know you said that you are updating the manual (becuase it has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese  , but can you post an explanation of how the THX settings:  REEQ, ASA, AND BGC are to be used (ASA wouldnt really apply to me with a 5.1 speaker setup)?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Dwight

[jethro]

What is the advised surround mode for 5.1 movies..."PLII Movie"? (I realize that I could also use "THX Cinema")

Dwight

Dwight:

I haven't upgraded my SP-1.7 to the SP-2, but with my SP-1.7 when you watch a DD 5.1
DVD, the "Mode"  LED turns off and the SP-1.7's LCD display shows DD 3/2.1.
This happen's automatically. I assume that the PCM stream has some identifying
information which tells the SP-1.7 to use DD 5.1. You can press the "Mode" button and
a different sound mode will briefly flash on the LCD but it returns to DD 5.1. If you press the
"Stereo" button, then the LCD changes to "Stereo", the "Surround" LED turns off,
and you get a 2-channel downmix of the incoming signal (not useful for movies). If you press the
"Surround" button again, the Stereo LED turns off, the Surround LED turns on, and the active
mode displayed in the LCD is "DD5.1".

If you see ][Digital 3.2.1 in the LCD when playing a DVD then you are good to go, except that
you can also select/de-select THX mode by pressing the THX button. The surround mode
should be ignored wile in this mode unless the SP-2 is different.

For two channel PCM source such as some cable boxes, or CD players, the "Mode" button
becomes active and modes such as PLII movie/music of the Neo6 movie/music can be selected.
The active mode should be displayed in the LCD. I believe the Pass-Thru mode is the same
as the "Stereo"  for 2-channel PCM. The "stereo" button also has the ability to downmix
5.1 PCM into two channels.

HTH a bit, Steve

[brucek]

redsierra,

I feel your pain with the SP2 manual. It is quite out of date.

When I received my SP2 I went through and wrote down all the modes for myself, so I would have a reference. There are a lot of modes, and it's easy to get confused in the chaos of the details.

Let me reprint the information I wrote down for my system, and then try and answer a few of your questions as I see it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MODE button in Surround:

1)  5.1 setup with 2 ch. source = PLll Music, PLll Movie, NEO:6 Music, NEO:6 Cinema, Stereo 5, Party, Hall, Church, Stadium, Club, Theatre, Natural, Pass Thru, Pro Logic.

2)  6.1 setup with 2 ch. source = PLllx Music, PLllx Movie, NEO:6 Music, NEO:6 Cinema, Stereo 5, Party, Hall, Church, Stadium, Club, Theatre, Natural, Pass Thru, Pro Logic.

3)  7.1 setup with 2 ch. source = PLllx Music, PLllx Movie, NEO:6 Music, NEO:6 Cinema, Stereo 5, Party, Hall, Church, Stadium, Club, Theatre, Natural, Pass Thru, Pro Logic.

4)  5.1 setup with 5.1 source = Digital.

5)  6.1 setup with 5.1 source = Digital, Digital EX, PLllx Music 6.

6)  7.1 setup with 5.1 source = Digital, Digital EX, PLllx Music 6, PLllx Movie 7, PLllx Music 7.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MODE button in THX:

1)  5.1 setup with 2 ch. source = PLll Movie + THX, NEO:6 Cinema + THX, Stereo + THX, PL + THX.

2)  6.1 setup with 2 ch. source = PLllx Movie + THX, NEO:6 Cinema + THX, Stereo + THX, PL + THX.

3)  7.1 setup with 2 ch. source = PLllx Movie + THX, NEO:6 Cinema + THX, 2.0 THX Games, Stereo + THX, PL + THX.

4)  5.1 setup with 5.1 source = THX Cinema.

5)  6.1 setup with 5.1 source = THX Cinema, THX Surround EX

6)  7.1 setup with 5.1 source = THX Ultra2Cinema, THX Surround EX, THX Music Mode, THX Games Mode.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me start by saying that you shouldn't over-ride the mode setting with a force code, because you don't really require the modes you can't get to with the Mode button.

For all 5.1 material (3/2.1), you want to use 5.1 decoding. That means ProLogic2 (PLll) and NEO:6 are not to be forced using codes. They are modes that turn 2 channel information into 5 or 6 or 7 channels. They are to be used with 2 channel sources only. For 5.1 sources, you want 5.1 decoding used by Dolby Digital (called Digital in Surround mode), or you want THX Cinema (used in THX mode).
The THX Surround EX and Digital EX modes are for systems with 6 or 7 channels. This is why you only have one selection with 5.1 sources in Surround and THX, because that's the mode you want to use.......

For 2 channel information (either 2/0.0 or PCM), you have quite a selection of modes to turn the two channels into 5 channels with a bit of DSP fakery. Usually TV/Cable/Satellite sounds best with PLII Movie. For music choose PLll Music or Pass-thru (which is just stereo mode when the Surround button is pressed), or switch to Stereo itself for music.

Is it correct that "THX Music" is only available with a 7.1 speaker setup?

Yes, but lots of modes are available for music in Surround.

What is the advised surround mode for 5.1 movies..."PLII Movie"? (I realize that I could also use "THX Cinema")

THX Cinema or Digital

With a 5.1 speaker setup with a 5.1 source should you be able to force different listening modes using the remote codes even though the "mode" button wont do it?

No reason to do this....

Lastly, I know you said that you are updating the manual (because it has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese, but can you post an explanation of how the THX settings:  REEQ, ASA, AND BGC are to be used (ASA wouldn't really apply to me with a 5.1 speaker setup)?

These are THX modes that you can read about at the THX site.
Usually you simply leave REEQ (THX re-equalization) enabled.
ASA is for 7 channel systems and digitally optimizes the four speaker surround field for content specifically mixed in environments for movies, music and games. It doesn't affect your 5.1 system.
 Leave BGC off in my opinion. THX says Boundary Gain Compensation filters excessive bass if a listener is sitting too close to a room boundary their perception of the low frequencies is exaggerated. However, with The Boundary Gain Compensation (BGC) filter applied to all output channels, the bass is equalized resulting in a flatter, more accurate bass response.
Read all that nonsense by concluding that BGC turned on results in worse bass. Leave it off.

I didn't talk about DTS at all here, that's another story...

brucek

[James Tanner]

WOW brucek,

That's impressive - want a job writing a new SP2 manual?

james

[brucek]

hehehe, yeah, your poor SP2 manual sure needs an update...........

[redsierra]

Well, Jethro and BruceK, that was very helpful.

You have basically confirmed what I thought was correct (after a fair bit of research).  Thank you.

There are a couple things that I would still like to clarify though:

Is it correct that "THX Music" is only available with a 7.1 speaker setup?

Yes, but lots of modes are available for music in Surround.

By that you mean lots of surround choices for a 2 channel source, correct, because for 5.1 Music DVDs there is only one, "Digital" because you aren't going to use "THX Cinema".

So when it comes right down to it, for 5.1 Music DVDs there aren't any THX modes available for a 5.1 speaker system, correct?

With a 5.1 speaker setup with a 5.1 source should you be able to force different listening modes using the remote codes even though the "mode" button wont do it?

No reason to do this....

Then wouldn't it make sense for Bryston have remote codes for all of the surround modes disabled when there is a 5.1 source present, just like it appears to be in the THX mode?  It does seem like the "PLII Music" and "Natural" are disabled.  The problem that I have with them being active is that I have all of the modes available on programable remote (Universal Remote MX 850) and the modes can be selected from there.  If one is selected by accident then you have to select another input and then select the proper source input again (ie if on DVD and an improper mode was selected, you would have to switch to say...tape, and then return to DVD).  Again, if they are'nt applicable I feel they should be disabled for 5.1 sources...JAMES?

I should have figured out the "Pass Thru" on my own  thanks though.

I will print some of this off, for the mean time until that new manual hits the streets!

Thanks again guys.

Sincerely,

Dwight (a huge Bryston fan)

[brucek]

By that you mean lots of surround choices for a 2 channel source, correct, because for 5.1 Music DVDs there is only one, "Digital" because you aren't going to use "THX Cinema".

So when it comes right down to it, for 5.1 Music DVDs there aren't any THX modes available for a 5.1 speaker system, correct?

Well, very true in the strictest sense. But realize that the THX Music modes only effect is to pull the rear sound back further to concentrate it into the back speakers, so how can you expect there to be a mode to do that when a 5.1 system doesn't have back speakers.

Dolby Digital mode and THX Cinema mode will be very capable of reproducing music DVD's in 5.1 sound.

brucek

[redsierra]

Bruce, thanks for your help.

Truly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Dwight

[redsierra]

Hello James.

You are kind of off the hook with all of the help that I got from the members (thanks again), BUT this still remains: (OK, I am a perfectionist, but there shouldnt be any "flaws"...right?  )

Then wouldn't it make sense for Bryston have remote codes for all of the surround modes disabled when there is a 5.1 source present, just like it appears to be in the THX mode?  It does seem like the "PLII Music" and "Natural" are disabled.  The problem that I have with them being active is that I have all of the modes available on programable remote (Universal Remote MX 850) and the modes can be selected from there.  If one is selected by accident then you have to select another input and then select the proper source input again (ie if on DVD and an improper mode was selected, you would have to switch to say...tape, and then return to DVD).  Again, if they are'nt applicable I feel they should be disabled for 5.1 sources.

Thanks,

Dwight

[James Tanner]

One of the problems I see is that we are forced as manufacturers by licencing commitments (DD, DTS, THX etc.) to provide features and options that do nothing more than complicate the whole point of this exercise - listening to great sound as intended.

james

[redsierra]

Hello James.

I hear you, but if the given modes should be applicable should you not adjust the firmware so that they cant be selected?

Dwight

[James Tanner]

Hello James.

I hear you, but if the given modes should be applicable should you not adjust the firmware so that they cant be selected?

Dwight

Hi Dwight,

I agree - if the modes there it should work as required. I guess my frustration is that many of these modes have nothing at all to do with playing back the recording as it was recorded. Most are just post manipulations of the original intent. It takes time and money to program this stuff and most of it is never even used.

I guess your the perfectionist and I'm the purist.

james