some input. I'm on the fence

weirdo · « **on:** 20 Nov 2006, 02:18 pm »

Currently have Frank's SS gear. ( Omega St. Pre/Amp) I have been thinking lately about a tube preamp. the Transcendence is in my price range. I can't quite afford the best Hybrid product he offers. I'm starting to like music more than ever and I am less concerned about the critical detail I hear from the SS gear. There is some competition in this price range (although probably no competition to AVA in build quality), so I would like to hear from Transcendence 5-8 owners about their impression of musical warmth and detail from the pre-amp. My musical choices are 1) classical and 2) good FM. thanks folks

Zheeeem · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Nov 2006, 03:30 pm »

Hmmmm... It would help if you said what speakers you're using, and what you're using for a source.

That said, I've never heard Frank's all-tube stuff, having made the leap directly from Omega to F-V/Transcendence. I find the sonic signature of the Omega and hybrid stuff to be remarkably similar. The hybrid stuff is smoother, very slightly warmer and darker, has better transparency and, well, is just incredibly listenable.

If your source is CD and you don't have one of Frank's DACs, that could possibly make the biggest improvement. I had an Omega DAC for a number of years and it completely changed my thinking about CDs. I now have an Ultra and it is a complete revelation. Probably the one piece of equipment I am least likely to part with.

If you primarily listen to vinyl, you may well be happiest with one of Frank's tube preamps. It would almost certainly be an upgrade from the Omega.

martyo · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Nov 2006, 05:13 pm »

My brother owns a 5 and I have listened on both our sets, my brother also has the Ultimate DAC, I don't. He has Dahlquists, I have the Carver Amazing Platinums. I personally haven't heard anything better but I haven't heard the Ultra's or the 8 or any 10K equipment. Here's one listeners comment from the RMAF:

On a third (or maybe fourth!) visit; Frank swapped the Ultra pre-amp for the all-tube T8, "just for fun". The dac and amp remained the hybrid Ultra's into the 3's. This, IMHO, was wonderful. Jim's speakers allowed an immediate 'window' to the swap. I could easily hear the change; which I would describe as a very, very slight reduction in resolution; but with a discernable increase in 'air' and 'space'. Just what an all tube curcuit usually does. I must stress; this is only a preference for me. Both pre-amps are great. R-e-a-l-l-y great.

WEEZ · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Nov 2006, 06:09 pm »

..those comments would belong to me

I cannot comment on the sound of the Omegastar...have not heard one. But to expand on the difference between the T8 and the Ultra preamps, I would say that the presentation(s) are very close. The T8 having all the virtues of a good tube preamp without any of the drawbacks, IMO. Yup; 'air' and/or 'space'. That's the best way I know to describe it.

The Ultra was similarily excellent. I used the term 'resolution' in my post mentioned by martyo; perhaps 'focus' would also be applicable. I can't imagine going wrong with either unit. My guess is that moving from a solid state preamp to a T8 would be well worth doing.

If you're looking for a 'colored', 'bloaty' sounding tube preamp...look elsewhere.

WEEZ

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Nov 2006, 10:32 pm »

I have the new T8 in the larger chassis and also an Omega III EC. I simply love them both. The T8 is in my vinyl playback system and I must say it is very fast, dynamic and uncolored. I also listen to FM and enjoy the sound through the T8 as well. I recommend either the T8 or the Omegastar. I will be upgrading to the Omegastar soon. A fella can't have too many AVA pre-amps! aa

W

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Nov 2006, 11:15 pm »

Frank upgraded my Super Pas 4i to T8 status and I love it. The T8 is designed to be a quieter, more detailed, and neutral. It lets the rest of your front end go about their business without getting in the way.
The whole system got more musical. I think it promotes synergy. Just my thoughts.

retiredguy · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Nov 2006, 12:58 am »

Wierdo, you said that your musical choices are classical and good FM. As a T-8 owner I can assure you that a T-8 will not be the limiting factor when listening to FM. The quality of sound you hear on FM will be limited by the quality of the tuner you use and the quality of the FM broadcast itself. Although it does not sound at all solid state, the T-8 does not given up any detail when compared to a good solid state preamp. It does, however, present that detail in a more natural and involving way. All of the detail is there, but it is presented as part of the whole picture rather than as individual pieces which jump out to grab your attention. As far as for "warmth", it sounds pretty neutral to me, but I am pretty sure that you could make it sound warmer by changing the tubes. Mullards, Tung-Sols, or RCA black plates will all probably make it sound warmer that the JJs that Frank supplies. (Sorry Frank)

Finally, while I certainly haven't heard everything--even in this price range--the T-8 easily holds its own in comparison to preamps I have heard which cost 3 times as much. Will a T-8 be "better" than the OmegaStar you already have? I don't have the slightest idea. I've never heard an OmegaStar. Judged on its own merits the T-8 is a very good preamp and I'm happy with mine.

OldCoder · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Nov 2006, 04:18 am »

Retiredguy is right about his T-8, and the same is true of my T-7 also. A friend has the T-8, and while it is a little more cleaner, transparent and detailed than my T-7, I believe we share the notion that the T-7 was a breakthrough preamp for Frank. Everything I have heard of his over the last 20+ years is better than what preceded it, but the T-7 made more of a leap than anything else I have heard. It changes a "stereo" into a "music" generator more than any gear I have heard (including top of the line Mac).

With the possible exception of the Ultra 550 versus the prior FetValue 550.

What can I say, Frank has "been on a roll" the last couple years.

weirdo · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Nov 2006, 03:30 pm »

Thanks fellas.... That's pretty much the response I expected and has inspiried me to get a T-8 even more now. I listed FM as an important source because I happen to live in an area where I have all that magnificent public radio music programming from two different states. The Mag Dyn tuner is on a lot. If i can just get through the holidays without serious financial damage I'll get a T-8. Also, the urge to tweak has not left me yet and using some alternative tube choices could be an entertaining pastime. We may be the only people who would consider that entertaining.

martyo · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Nov 2006, 09:39 pm »

Listening to different tubes IS very entertaining.

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Nov 2006, 11:05 pm »

The 12AX7 (ECC83-ECC803) and 12AT7 (ECC81-ECC801) tubes are popular and plentiful. I have RCA 12AX7A grey plates in the line stage with Telefunken ECC810S in the phono. I want to try the Electro Harmonix 12AX7 Gold. These go through a rigorous testing before being released. A friend who always tauted vintage NOS tubes uses these in his Mac amp and is very happy. Enjoy!

warnerwh · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Nov 2006, 12:40 am »

If you listen to FM alot you may want to consider getting a modded tuner from the late 70's. You can buy a Kenwood KT 7500 and have it modded for under 500 total. This will give you world class sound quality and reception. I've owned alot of tuners over the years including some of the top tuners according to fmtunerinfo.com and never heard one that is as good as a modded Kenwood KT 7500.

There's other tuners that work well for this also. Go to fmtunerinfo.com and there's pics of them. Get the one you like the looks of the best. Also there's a group called fmtuners on Yahoo. Those guys know more about tuners than anyone else on the planet and certainly more than anyone could want to know.

I also listen to FM daily and alot as my favorite station is an NPR jazz station with excellent broadcast fidelity. I went through alot of tuners and Jim Rivers who is one of the people who run fmtunerinfo.com suggested this tuner to me. Then I sent it to him and he transformed it into what is surely world class sound quality rivaling cd's with a good broadcast and antenna.

When the Accuphase hit the top of the heap in the tuner shootout section I asked Jim if it sounded as good as a modded Kt 7500 and he told me he didn't say it sounded that good. Anyway if you want any assistance on this PM me and I'll help you where I can.

With the 12AT7 tubes I like the Mullard 12AT7WA from the early 80's. According to Upscale Audio this is the most robust and best selling tube they have. Kevin stated this on AA some time ago.

I can't imagine going wrong with a AVA preamp. A friend who's opinion I know and agree with just bought one and loves it. My Fetvalve 550 is wonderful and a standout amplifier amongst the many I've owned.

Cheers

Wayner · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Nov 2006, 01:11 am »

I've spent many hours listening to the T8. Get it.

W

weirdo · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Nov 2006, 11:14 pm »

Quote from: warnerwh on 23 Nov 2006, 12:40 am

If you listen to FM alot you may want to consider getting a modded tuner from the late 70's. You can buy a Kenwood KT 7500 and have it modded for under 500 total. This will give you world class sound quality and reception. I've owned alot of tuners over the years including some of the top tuners according to fmtunerinfo.com and never heard one that is as good as a modded Kenwood KT 7500.

I believe you. I really don't have a serious problem with my Magnum Dynalab Ft101A. The noise floor is extremely low and and I actually like the soundstage and instrument dynamics I hear. Its a nice match for the AVA ss gear. I will wait until I get a T8 in the system before re-evaluating the tuner. I run a roof mout dedicated FM antenna and I am quite pleased with it. I get all 3 Pittsburgh public stations and two stations on the West Virginia Public system, which has some very interesting programming from Mountain Stage to excellent eclectic and clasical. I am a lucky guy in that respect. Truthfully, if I ever move, good FM will actually be one of my priorities. I belong to the Yahoo FM Tuner group and quite frankly two things I have noticed in the dialogue postings: 1) they have a hard on for Mag Dyn gear and 2) I am not an EE (actually metallurgical) and the majority of the talk is about circuit modification which I just would not attempt. My wife has seem me blow up stuff. Besides, I have a dirt cheap yet very good sounding early 80's analog solid state Sherwood in the bedroom that sometimes sounds so good I can't believe it. Thank you for your suggestions sir.

David Ellis · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Nov 2006, 04:11 am »

Quote

If you listen to FM alot you may want to consider getting a modded tuner from the late 70's. You can buy a Kenwood KT 7500 and have it modded for under 500 total. This will give you world class sound quality and reception. I've owned alot of tuners over the years including some of the top tuners according to fmtunerinfo.com and never heard one that is as good as a modded Kenwood KT 7500.

I have a Kenwood 7500 amplifier and it does indeed sound very good. I did a bit of research before purchasing this tuner, and it appeared a wise purchase. It easily sounds better than an older heathkit, an 80s NAD, an 80s Technics, and 1-2 others. Yep, the 7500 is a good tuner.

I would like to know what mods you accomplished on your tuner. It appears to be very open under the hood, and should be easy to work on.

Dave

warnerwh · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Nov 2006, 05:27 am »

Dave: Go here: http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/DIY.html#KT-7500

Jim Rivers did the mods on my tuner. He usually doesn't do this but Mike Williams of Radio X will. He's a bit of a wait and you have to get a place in line but it's well worth it. His prices are good and so is his work. He does everything from tuner mods to complete restoration of vintage gear.

The modded Kt 7500 and the stock one are two completely different tuners. The sound of the modded tuner is world class. I have had both in my system at the same time and can assure you what can be done to this tuner is pretty amazing. Any of the people over at the fm tuners group on Yahoo will tell you the same thing. It doesn't get much better than a modded Kt 7500. It's up there with the best of the best. Until Jim modded this one I had no idea a tuner could sound so good.

I've owned Onkyo Integras, totl Denons, the actual B&K St 108 they rated quite highly etc and none can compete with the Kt 7500 after it's modded. Before it's modded the B&K actually is much better sounding. A stock Kt 8300 is a good notch above also.

Getting a tuner to sound close to a cd is possible. The antenna and broadcast must also be of good quality of course. If you can do the mods yourself or send them to Mike at Radio X you'll be pretty surprised at the improvement as it's an in your face improvement. For a full set of mods and alignment the cost is probably only about 350 total which would probably include shipping at least one way.

You're right about there being alot of room in there. That's one of the reasons this tuner is often modded. That and the fact it's a well designed and built 5 gang tuner. Reception can be made world class for little extra money too but unless you live in a place where you're in the middle of hills and mountains or away from the tower a couple of hundred miles the stock capability with a filter board is more than good enough.

warnerwh · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Nov 2006, 05:36 am »

Weirdo: I know those guys are hard on the Magnum tuners. I'm afraid I'd have to agree. A friend of mine bought the same tuner you have and we were both pretty shocked. The reason is because the Denon TU 747 he had sounded better and cost 40 bucks used. I believe he paid 700 for the Magnum.

If you haven't heard a modded tuner compared to your own tuner maybe you could post where you live and take your tuner to a person's house or they could bring one over to your house. I suspect after you hear the modded tuner you'll be pretty surprised at the difference. For what you can sell the Magnum for it would pay for most of a modded Kenwood. Signal to noise here is 90db+ measured in stereo!

As you know there's actually plenty of tuners to mod and plenty of people to mod them for you. For what you end up with for the money is a very good deal imo. It appears you have a much better selection of good FM in your territory.

Best wishes on your preamp

weirdo · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Nov 2006, 12:09 am »

Quote from: warnerwh on 24 Nov 2006, 05:36 am

Weirdo: I know those guys are hard on the Magnum tuners. I'm afraid I'd have to agree. A friend of mine bought the same tuner you have and we were both pretty shocked. The reason is because the Denon TU 747 he had sounded better and cost 40 bucks used. I believe he paid 700 for the Magnum.

Interesting story wh. you make a strong case. I'll start checking into it. dk

weirdo · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Nov 2006, 12:17 am »

Actually,another question to the tuner buffs. I plead novice on tuners so consider that.

I've always felt (or atleast have until this discussion) that good tuner performance was mostly out of the hands of the listener. I have heard incredible musical performances that seem to be the result of perfect atmospheric conditions and antenna more than tuner quality. This is the excuse I use when my FM gear sounds occasionally incredible and occasionally sub-par. Your thoughts....

warnerwh · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Nov 2006, 01:16 am »

Weirdo: You'll be surprised how good one of those vintage tuners fully modded sounds. It's way better than any tuner I've owned and I've had alot of them. As a matter of fact enough to know that when I had the B&K St 108 I talked to Jimand told him how good I thought it was as he hadn't reviewed it and offered it to him on the phone one day. He ended buying it from me. You'll notice it's rated fairly high.

I just like to help others that listen to FM and unfortunately we're a dying breed so any help I can do for others feels good. Then again it doesn't make me feel good when I have to tell someone they could do much better with a different tuner especially if they paid alot of money for it. Fortunately if you've spent much time at FMtuners on Yahoo you've read it all already and know the modded vintage tuners won't be outdone by any new tuners although I guess there's a couple that do quite well if you want to spend several grand.

It's just so easy to get a vintage tuner in nice cosmetic condition and have it modded. Also I'm dead set against what IBOC is calling "HD Radio" which it certainly isn't. You're Magnum is worth enough to get you a much better tuner.

In the end I believe you will be glad you did this, I certainly am