[jqp]

I am posting here in the Lab, feel free to move if not appropriate...

I just bought a 9V 150mAh battery from Radioshack. I hope this wasn't a mistake.

I bought it and the only 9V charger they had to go with it, the 23-437 Overnight Charger.

To charge up this 9V battery before use will take 150mAh x .0608 = 9.12 hours. This charger has no automatic function for 9V, hence the "helpful" calulation in the "manual".

This seems overly difficult to me.

I also bought the 46-range digital multimeter with PC interface, which is why I bought the battery in the first place. I ruined my previous multimeter via leaving batteries in it until they corroded or maybe I fried it, I can't remember which. So I don't have a good track record with multimeters...

Now the real issue here is that my electric water heater is out. I have relaced the element and the thermostat, which seemed to be fairly easy, except for getting the water drained out of my heater first.

My plumbing seems to be a bit of a mystery to me. I cut off the cold water supply to the tank and let the water drain out the bottom through the hose. Lots of cloudy water came out after 10+ years, but I could not seem to get the thing drained. Then I decided that water was coming back into the tank from the hot water-out line. I decided the the do-it yourselfers who owned the house before me had crossed a cold and hot line somewhere, what with the dishwasher and the refrigerators ice maker. Indeed under the kitchen sink is a weird tap into one of the lines...

First I shut off the 30amp breaker in the downstairs subpanel of course. The the water heater thermostat has a hi-limit breaker which I pushed in a couple times to give me hot water while the parts were shipping. Finally, the thermostat or element seemed to permanently give out and the next day the parts arrived.

So I turned off the water valve at the house in the front hall closet. Still seemed to be draining for an awfull long time and it sounded like water was still running into the tank. I went to the outside spigot in the front and water was pouring out - obviously not controlled by the main valve inside. The back spigot however was controlled by the house main valve @!%@#. What kind of plumbing did these people do?

Back inside still draining with no sighns of letting up. So I tuned off every inside cut off I could - sinks, showers, etc. Still draining. I turned on the upstairs tub to let the suction out of the system and also opened the water heater release valve. At some point I thought the heater was drained, but managed to get the water heater insulation wet when I unscrewed the element. Quickly screwed it back in and monkeyed around until the tank was really drained.

After swapping out the old element for the new one, and changing out the thermostat unit, and rewiring as per the diagrams, the heater does not work. I am afraid I have a bad 30 amp breaker, hence the multimeter to start troubleshooting.

Any pointers here? I feel I should be able to fix this after careful troubleshooting. Shouldn't I be able to snap a new 30amp breaker in, with the main house switch off of course (assuming that turns out to be the issue)? I will get a 9V battery from my smoke detector so I don't have to wait 9.12 hours to use my multimeter.  But I want to take it slow and 1 careful step at a time...

[jqp]

Let me ask this:

This multimeter is rated at 10A. I think I can still check for continuity with it (power off).

Though the water heater can apparently draw 15.8 amps max (240V and 3800 watts max) can I test current across the element with the power on?

If this question should not be answered with information available lat me know...

[JoshK]

Let me ask this:

This multimeter is rated at 10A. I think I can still check for continuity with it (power off).

Though the water heater can apparently draw 15.8 amps max (240V and 3800 watts max) can I test current across the element with the power on?

If this question should not be answered with information available lat me know...

Test voltage (should be around 230-250VAC) at the wire input to your heater with the breaker on (do be careful, and make sure you are in a dry area).  This will let you know if you are getting power.  I don't see why you need to test current. 

Be very careful when changing out the breaker!  I do it often, but even with the main house breaker off, there is still a live feed coming in that is usually exposed.  Touch that and that could be the end of things. 

P.S. your existing plumbing sounds like my electrical when I moved in.   

[JoshK]

oh, and 9V rechargers are hard to come by but I got one at Ratshack. 

[DeadFish]

Agreeing with JoshK that there is no need to test your power beyond 'Go/No-go'.  You'll smoke your little meter if you don't watch it.

Sounds like your whole house was draining thu your waterheater, and unless I'm missing something, that is the way it should be if in the basement.  Best thing to have done was open all the valves in the house (except for the supply coming in from the street.) and let 'er drain.  When in doubt, go out and turn it off at the meter in the street/yard/whatever.  I've seen in the past that folks 'cheated' and might have put one outside spigot or so 'off the meter' for unlimited supply in an emergency.   I've seen a few 'old-timer' tricks to get free water as well.  You didn't say how old your place was, but I assume it is back in time some.  My house is 100+ years old and I have a history of plumbing and electric here I've waded thru.  Ah, and also a history of *mistakes*.   
I installed a valve in the output of my water heater for such purposes as draining the thing, but I'm not sure that might be 'kosher'.

You can get some goofy readings on those elements in the tank.  It would have been good to measure continuity on the new element before installation so that you knew kind of what you were going to get.
Also, don't turn it on empty.  Quickest way to fry an element.  I know it sounds self-evident, but nothing is fool-proof in mechanics there...

I've replaced my elements twice and the thermostat once on mine and each time gotten kind of weird readings at the heater.  Testing right at the thermostat inputs of power is best way to know there is power there.  For mine, the only way I could really tell the thing was working after replacement was filling the heater, turning on the breaker and listening for about 10 minutes or so right next to the heater, as it made some of those sounds of roaring like when you first put a teakettle on an electric stove.

Re-reading what I wrote here, I don't know if this is much help, but you might distill something from it.

Good luck, and let us know how it went!

Regards,
DeadFish

[jqp]

Thanks for the responses guys, this is a plumbing question as much as a houshold electrician question.

Thanks for the info on the meter - yes, I see now that I am not going to measure amps at all, just check to see if I see the 220V at the thermostat/element.

This house was built in the 60's, and I think the water from the street splits off to the front spigot and also to the main house valve.

I think my initial problems draining were because i was not opening the high-pressure release valve on the waer heater at the proper times, both for draining and for filling the tank back up.

My colleague at work is wondering if I really have my heater filled up to the proper level. If not I may be tripping the breaker (which may not be fully snapping off) or burning up my element. Hopefully that is not the case! Yhey are only $14-16, but it takes a few days to get one shipped to my house.

So tonight i will do another round of checking and hopefully won't have to shower at the healthclub before work...

[MaxCast]

How old is the water heater?  It may good to replace it as deposits form on the bottom of the tank and thus around the lower element causing problems.

Hint:  Turn off all the faucets in the house.  Close off the supply to the heater.  Get your new element gooped up and a towel.  Unscrew the old element and replace with new quickly.  Minimal water will leak out.  This assumes of course you don't have any cross connections.

[jqp]

This is a 10-11 year old heater. The life expectancy on the element is about 10-13 years so I figured I would just replace the element and thermostat and be good for another 10 years, assuming there was not too much corrosion. Tanks are glass on the inside, so other than copper pipes and the "sacrificial anode", the element is the thing that corrodes. There was a lot of cloudy water that drained out and also came out the hot water pipes after (I thought) I had refilled the tank. The old element was corroded, but didn't look fatally corroded. Hard to tell of course.

I will post a pic of the old element and my "mod", the new, better element tonight.

My colleague told me about the element swap trick with the towel. Wish I knew it before I did the draining! But I might have drained anyway to flush the junk out of the bottom of the tank.

[mgalusha]

Sometimes the dip tube fails as well. We had one break off at the cold water inlet, making the heater useless. I was able to replace just the dip tube but the old one was decomposing and we ended up with a lot of plastic particles in our water which of course started plugging the sink aerator every few days. What a PITA. We ended up replacing the heater as I couldn't get the old dip tube out and we didn't really want to drink the little plastic particles.

This site: http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/ has some good info. He has product to sell, but there is some decent information on the site.

 

[jqp]

OK here is the deal - my wiring job was good 237V at the connections and the element, but the 30A breaker in the panel is loose and if I jiggle it I can eventually get the power to flow for about a minute, then it "trips". It is obviously malfunctioning.

Will I need a new one? Or should I just reseat this one?

[jqp]

As promised, the pictures


My old element and my "mod" to my water heater. Think I will get better hot water? Actually, it was great before...




I think I have some aluminum wiring  The house is circa 1966. The breaker in question is in the lower left position.

[jqp]

I used a Siemens, since Home Depot did not have my no name brand. They had 4 different 30A breakers so I bought one of each to see which would be best...



Turned the power off to do this...




And here is the 9V charger



Water temp at the bathtub faucet = 126F and rising   

[bubba966]

I think I have some aluminum wiring 

Looking at the pics the only thing that looks like it's aluminum is the wire running to your stove. And that's not a problem at all.

Even now it's not uncommon to run aluminum wire for ovens or subpanels. Actually nowadays we're doing that more and more often do to the insane cost of copper as of late.