[shep]

Sorry to re post this question but I didn't get enough feedback the last time. I have ordered some nice single core wire http://www.ahfartaudio.com/ and I haven't totally understood the best way to implement it. This cannot be rocket science surely? There has to be best way...Thus far I have: two wires dangling, two wires twisted and two wires running parallel (but kept apart in various ways). In my head I also see some kind of central core their twisted around (this says something about my head...) and I see some kind of sleeve to keep it tidy. I will not use any connectors, just bare wire ends. Please explain the whys and wherefore's!
p.s. I'm the one in the back of the class keeping his head down; hoping the teacher doesn't ask me anything.

[gooberdude]

I can only speak from expereince with the anti-cables...i'd try any & all variations and see what works.

personnally, i think most normal copper wiring sounds better pointed in one direction or the other.
initially, it might be worth 15-20 minutes to see if your cables suffer the same.  Find the directions that are warm, listening to one speaker at a time...then move on from there.

my anti-cables sound like crap when they touch one another, so i have 4 separate wires for the speaker pair.    i go by mapleshade's recomendations and don't let them run parallel more than a few inches, plus i keep them off the carpeted floor with cable risers.   this is easy with the solid core wires.

definitely report back when you've found the winners & losers.

GD

[robert1325]

I'll need to experiment with the anti-cables sometime,  mine run parralel and touch each other.

You are spot on about the directions , the warmer sounding direction is the best.

[jules]

Try a search on "Tara" in the lab and also the Aspen site. The geometry sounds similar and there's some specific advice on which way to run   the stuff along with details of how they are made [or DIY if you choose] and the logic of keeping some space between them.

Jules

[JoshK]

Here is probably a different perspective on things, but do you have a impedance and phase plot of your speakers?  What kind of amp are you using?  Those two things can give you general guidance on how to implement the speaker wire (capacitance or inductive tilted design).  Its hard to lower both capacitance and inductance but it is possible.  How your amp reacts to this in series with your speaker's reactance is why I *theorize* some cables sound different. 

[Russell Dawkins]

I stumbled on this copper foil speaker wire the other day:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4c5pt/id6.html

I wonder if anyone here has heard it.

[shep]

I also stumbled on... Almost ordered some before I found the Singapore wire. Sounds interesting (!) I really want to avoid the technical side and the arguments PLEASE! I am just asking for simple advice about how best to use/configure a pair of single 20 guage solid core copper wire that is Teflon insulated. I don't want to go back to clothes lines and coat hangers. Ok if it will make me a good old guy or something; they will be used on a modified T-amp running TL speakers. The source is a heavily modified Marantz CDP. I have one set of ic's from DH labs that are ok, nothing to drool over. Couldn't be simpler, right? This will end up as another posting sometime down the road "how to put together a really nice simple sound system for under 1000$" that's the goal I set, that's the budget. I have to sell a wood stove, a turntable and maybe some valuable LP's to swing it. Anybody want a good wood stove? Only weighs 200lbs. Cheap. Got to pick it up though. No bass, no treble, nothing but heat and smoke. (a bit like me!) ps the turntable's sold, sorry (you missed a great deal!)

[SET Man]

Hey!

  From my experience making my own speaker cable.

   I used couple of conductors of 21g solid copper coated wire in teflon tubes. The total ga. was about 14ga. per pole.

   First I tried them in parallel run with a few inches apart. This is pretty much like my own DIY IC.... a low capacitance parallel run.  I found to be thin but seem to have more extention on top end.

   Than I twisted them up... not very tightly about very 1.5" or so. I found this to sound better. Fuller than parallel run and  sounds tonality correct for me... well whatever that mean. This design of cause have higher capacitance but lower inductance.

    I wonder if less or more twisting would change the much of the characteristic of the electrical respond and sound of the cable.

  Please keep in mind that I'm using my cable between SET amps and Single Driver speaker without xover. I'm sure the sound would be different in other system.

   Remember the Alpha Core speaker cable? Their cable work fine with tube amp but with some SS amp those cable cause the amp to blow... I think due to it design of which have a very high capacitance. But of cause their now sell those cable with a correction network... zoble I think.

   Well, good luck and keep us posted on your project.

Take care,
Buddy

[shep]

I also hear cable direction, God help me it's probably a birth defect. BUT, the manufacturer of these cables is adamant that the Ohio casting process annuls this affect. Remains to be heard, right? Anyway since I'm buying lengths of the roll, it's going to be a bitch to figure out which way is which. Frankly I'd rather not have to go there.

[Occam]

Just as a point of reference, when you move 'hot' and 'return' apart you lower the capacitance of the cable. The lowest capacitance cables have hot and return in separate cables. The Tara TFA, Anti-Cables, and Alon Black Orpheus are examples of very low capacitance cables. Still low are separated, but attached runs such as typical twinlead like DNM and Naim LS cables.
The capacitance increases until they are insulator to insulator, zipcord.

For various reasons, like noise rejection, cables can be twisted which raises capacitance higher (also lowing inductance). And as we add more wires within the twist we further increase capacitance. Star-quad cable has about 1 1/2 the capacitance of a twisted pair.

While capacitance of LS cables typically not overly problematic, Naim won't warrant their amps when running high capacitance cable. The problem of high capacitance cable increases when you multiwire, as paralleled capacitance is additive.

[rajacat]

I have about 20 feet of 14 guage pure silver multi strand wire that I would like to turn into speaker cables. Would I be better off twisting it or separating it with mylar tape? Any other ideas would be appreciated. Since it is all silver would it require a long burn-in period?

Thanks.

Raja

[shep]

I'm dumb as two damp pebbles so I probably have this wrong: since I don't think there's any RF in the neighborhood (those damn foxes?) they shouldn't act as an antenna...I'm using short runs, 4 feet. Does this help further matters?

[boead]

I had very good luck with Litz Type-4 in cotton for speaker cable.
http://www.litz-wire.com/products.html

http://www.baycable.com/html/litz_wire.html

http://schmarder.com/radios/sale/wire.htm
















Handy tool:
http://208.185.94.62/pics/wire/wirecalculator.xls


I tried CAT5 in all different AWG braids. It s good but was a bit to lean for my system.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/cat5questions_e.html




My speakers are internally wired with Alpha Core ribbon copper.
http://www.alphacore.com/


http://www.hcmaudio.com/hcm.asp

[shep]

I'm none the wiser (sigh). Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. There IS no "right" way (sigh) I should have known.

[JoshK]

Remember the Alpha Core speaker cable? Their cable work fine with tube amp but with some SS amp those cable cause the amp to blow... I think due to it design of which have a very high capacitance. But of cause their now sell those cable with a correction network... zoble I think.

Well you got the idea but just backwards.  Alpha core (flat wire) has high inductance, low capacitance.  Think flat = high inductance, twisted or braided is low inductance and higher capacitance.  It might seem backwards but think what is happening in parrallel, not in series with the speaker. 

Basically I wasn't trying to turn this into a technical discussion (but this is the 'lab').  I was just trying to help you choose a design that would help in your situation based on a little less guessing. 

[Occam]

Remember the Alpha Core speaker cable? Their cable work fine with tube amp but with some SS amp those cable cause the amp to blow... I think due to it design of which have a very high capacitance. But of cause their now sell those cable with a correction network... zoble I think.

Well you got the idea but just backwards.  Alpha core (flat wire) has high inductance, low capacitance.  Think flat = high inductance, twisted or braided is low inductance and higher capacitance.  It might seem backwards but think what is happening in parrallel, not in series with the speaker. 

Basically I wasn't trying to turn this into a technical discussion (but this is the 'lab').  I was just trying to help you choose a design that would help in your situation based on a little less guessing. 

I believe Buddy is correct. Some of the Goertz/AlphaCore speaker cables are very highly capacitive to the tune of 1.5nf/ft. Foil cables can be either high cap/ low inductance or low cap / high inductance; it depends on how its implemented. If the hot and return foils are on top of each other (like the Goertz) you get the former, and if they're adjacent you get the later.
Low and no feedback amps, like many tube amps, are generally insensitive to capacitive cables (though enough capacitance can shunt high frequencies). Amps using substantial feedback can sometimes find high cap cable problematic as it can muck up phase characteristics within the feedback network, resulting in, at worst, destructive oscillation, or prefferably, just crappy sound.

[bpape]

There IS a right way.  Try it different ways and see what works best in your system and which you prefer.

Bryan

[JoshK]

Occam/Buddy, I apologize, you are right.  I didn't realize some were done with them on top of eachother.  I thought they were all side to side. 

[SET Man]

I'm none the wiser (sigh). Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. There IS no "right" way (sigh) I should have known.

Hey!

    Sorry shep I know sometime we tend to get a little crazy over the top around here at the "Lab"

    Cable is a very hard subject since there are so many variations.... that's why there are many cable companies out there Think about it how many way you could make a cable form 2 pieces of wires?

     Okay.... not to get into endless argument. Let make it simple for you...

    Get your wire. Cut them up and twist them every 1 inch... doesn't have to be very tight. Than tape or shrink wrap both end a bit. Hook them up and enjoy

      Let's us know how things turn out okay

Take care,
Buddy

[shep]

Thanks. I'll do it that way I guess and see what happens!