Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 4652 times.

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11482
  • Without music, life would be a mistake.
Oh yeah, it was a good afternoon.  DAM (consisting of me, Jason [Pez] Mike [mgalusha], Brad [brad b], and Wayne) got together at a local audiophile's (Jerry [Turk]).  Jerry has a very nice system:
Black RM40's w/the FST tweeter and the TRT crossovers.  I'd never seen the 40s in full wrap, glossy black before and they looked GREAT.  Very imposing, but also very cool looking.

The rest of Jerry's system consisted of:
Parasound JC-1 Monoblock amps
Sony SA777ES SACD player
Musical Fidelity A3^24 DAC

and 2 preamps that we tried out in turn:
Musical Fidelity A308^CR preamp
AVA FetValve Transcendance 7 preamp

Plus, a VERY nice looking turntable that we never did get around to listening to :-(
Cabling was Synergistic for speaker wire, but I forget what was used for interconnects.

I also brought over some toys to play with - Mensa Dio w/Bolder power supply, in-line Bybee'd digital filter,  2 runs of bybee'd nitro's, Nitro Speaker wire, Bybee'd Nitro jumpers, and my AVA FetValve 550ex.  Wayne also brought some in-line speaker bybee's.

First up was listening to some Pat Methaney via the A3^24 DAC, A308 Preamp, and JC-1's with the Synergistic cables.  It sounded pretty dang good.  Maybe a bit heavy and loose on the bottom end, and not quite as transparent as I know the 40's can be, but a very smooth, pleasing sound.  Then I slipped in some Siemens tubes in to Jerry's AVA T7 preamp.  Jerry had had bad impressions listening to it with the stock Electroharmonix tubes (too clinical sounding), and the Amperex tubes (too fat bass).  He'd never heard the Siemen's tubes in the circuit.  We replaced the A3^24 w/the T7, and and the JC-1s with the 550ex.  Microdynamics increased, bass tightened a lot, and a veils wer lifted.  My opinion is that the T7 is clearly a much better preamp in Jerry's system, but we'll get back to a more direct 550ex and JC-1 comparison in a moment.

We switched music to a CD of Piano and Violin, called "The Devil's Dance", some fiendishly difficult pieces.  We listened to track 4, Dance Macabre composed by that master of musical tone poems - Saint Saens.  This whole disk is a  GREAT test of micro dynamics, macro dynamics, transient attack, air, decay, pace, and grain (or lack thereof) in your equipment.  

We listen first with the 550ex, then with the JC-1's in the system.  The midrange I thought was almost identical on both amps, but the JC-1 still had a bigger, fatter bass, but also (incredibly) a smoother top end.  I actually thought the top end was "overly" smooth, because the violin's midrange has a sound of the bow "biting" in to the strings, and the JC-1's got that down perfectly, but the upper frequencies should have had that same character of bow biting in to string, but it didn't, it was buttery smooth, a bit of a disconnect in the sound, IMO.

In goes the dual runs of Bybee'd Nitro's (between the DAC and pre, and between the pre and amp).  Holy dynamics, batman!  The sound now just leaped out of the speakers, attack, decay, air, pace, bass, all took a big jump up in quality.  I think the JC-1's are very sensitive to interconnects, and it was immediately and blatantly obvious that they liked the Bybee'd Nitro's much better.  Also, the JC-1's were now producing the high end properly, with the "bite" of the bow clearly audible in the high notes as well as the mid range notes, giving the whole sound a coherency that was missing with the prior interconnects.  At this point, I felt the JC-1's and the 550ex sounded way more alike than different, but w/the 550ex still having better microdynamics, but the JC-1's still smoother sounding.  Or, put another way, the JC-1's were more mellifluous and the 550ex more percussive.  Oh yes, the JC-1's did have better Macrodynamics.  Both amps do the "quiet" parts very well, but the JC-1s were able to go a bit louder on the loud parts.  Not a huge difference, but there it was (I really liked the JC-1's headroom for demanding, loud passages).

In goes the Nitro speaker wire w/the JC-1's.  It was a similar improvement to putting in the Bybee'd Nitro IC's, but to a smaller degree.  Definitely an improvement, but not as "hit you over the head" obvious as the Nitro IC's.  Then we put in the speaker level bybee filters.  Some of the attack of notes was not as sharp, but in it's place was a slight "rounding" of the notes that as quite nice.  Treble and midrange had a "blacker" background.

Next up was the Mensa, and the main improvement was focus.  Everything tightened up, imaging, bass (which was starting to sound EXTREMELY impressive w/the JC-1's - no hint of bloat or fat now!).  When listening with the Mensa and digital inline filter (the inline filter increased soundstage depth and lowered noise floor considerably), we had the Pat Methaney on again.  Whereas before, you could hear his fingers moving over the fretboard every 3rd note or so, with the Mensa and bybee digital filter, you could hear his fingers moving around continuously.  The extra resolution and focus really let these small details come out.

That's pretty much the extent of the playing around we did w/various equipment.  I did want to comment on the sound of Jerry's RM40's vs. mine (I have the auricap crossover and the original dual spiral ribbon tweeters).  The main area I heard a difference was the upper mids, which were more clearly and cleanly rendered on Jerry's 40's than mine are capable of.  I have the FST tweeter, I just need the dressplates from Brian so I can install them.  When I have the FST tweeter in place, it'll be interesting to see how much of the better upper mids are the result of the FST vs. the TRT crossover.  And, the FST tweeter is just a sweeter sounding tweeter than the dual spiral tweeters.

Also, I find that Jerry's 40's produced upper bass better than my 40's, but mine do the really deep bass better.  I'm pretty certain that these differences are a result of different rooms having different effects on the bass.  I had always thought that the 40's (based on mine) were just naturally weak at upper bass, but I now know that is not the case.  When I recently added the digital bybee filter to my Mensa recently, my bass (particularly upper bass) improved a LOT, but the upper bass in Jerry's system had a physical, percussive quality that hit harder than mine does (actually it reminded me a lot of the presentation of the Shelah Audio Excelarrays, which is very good indeed).

Funny story - Jerry's air conditioning had gone out right before everyone showed up, and the repair tech showed up toward the end of the listening session.  At one point he asked the price of the RM40's, and when told their $6k price, just raised his eyebrows, slightly shook his head, and muttered something about his 12" JBL's sounding fine.  That was while we were listening to my "Devil's Dance" classical CD.  A few minutes later Jason put on Radiohead, and the tech noted that that was the cleanest reproduction of the track he'd ever heard (must have been a Radiohead fan).  That particular track had a lot of intentional distortion recorded in to it.  It was pristinely rendered distortion! :-D  It was pretty funny. . .

That's about all I can remember right now, hopefully some of the others will post their impressions as well.

brad b

I get writers cramp just looking at Tyson's review
« Reply #1 on: 29 Jun 2003, 04:58 am »
OK.  What did I hear today?
1.  Musical Fidelity Preamp and JC-1's were a little too midrange rich, and not quite enough low end definition
2.  JC-1's and T-7 Preamp really popped nicely and seemed to be a great balance of definition with a touch of warmth from the JC-1's, which I do not get with ny Fet Valve 350 EX.  The EX may have been slightly more accurate in my mind, but the JC-1's were extremely musical.  I think Tyson got it right with the EX being a little more accurate on the percussion side, the JC-1's providing a super smooth sound.
3.  The nitro interconnects definitely make a difference, as do the nitro speaker cables.  Much more neutral, and made the JC-1 really come to life.
4.  Surprisingly I liked the Musical Fideltity DAC in this setup maybe better than the Mensa because it retained the upper frequency extension for me.  The Mensa got the bass part right, and provided better "black" around the music, but I was not in the sweet spot to positively hear the difference.
5.  I am damn glad I could not listen to the vinyl, as it would have been really taxing on my budget to sort out the divorce lawyer and the $10K investment in Vinyl toys.
6.  Jason the prick that he is actually heard a woofer over 8' away with a loose seal,  when nobody else could.  The weird thing about this is that Jason was standing right next to the opposite speaker when he heard it.  He truly is blessed with some of the best detail hearing I have encountered.  I just shook my head and laughed at the discovery...
7.  The great thing about Jerry's gear is that he has the option to create a very accurate detail sound, or roll it off slightly to suit his tastes.  I have not heard this kind of versatility in too many setups.  Great time with the gang, except all those damn knives they keep flashing around....
8.  Tyson really has provided the detail in this session; the only question for me would be the DAC results, which still have me scratching my head, as the Mensa is usually the killer detail DAC in the deal.
Brad B

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11482
  • Without music, life would be a mistake.
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #2 on: 29 Jun 2003, 05:07 am »
Yes, we did a lot more direct comparisons between the other gear, I wish we would have gone back & forth between the Mensa and the MF DAC a couple of times after all the "good" cabling was in.  Maybe Jerry will bring the MF by my house for a listening session where we can A/B them a lot more.

Turk

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 169
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #3 on: 29 Jun 2003, 03:40 pm »
First Post :D  

Just wanted to extend my appreciation to Tyson, Jason, Wayne, Brad and Mike.  I learned a great deal and my oh my does that Jason have some ears(and eyes, he also spotted a woofer excursion due to a low level signal leaking from the preamp).  I heard much of what the rest of the gang heard except to say the JC-1s were slightly polite to the 550's snap, at the expense perhaps of a touch of grain in the treble that the JC-1s did not seem to exhibit, althought I couldn't get close to the sweet spot!

I was floored by two changes, the tube change to the preamp, Siemens: and the insertion of the Bybee Nitro interconnects(yes, this visit is going to cost me money, well worth it of course).  If you have the Parasounds believe me you have not heard them until you match them with the right interconnects and, secondarily, speaker cables.  In the years I have been tinkering around with audio I have never heard an interconnect bring a system to life like that.

Like Brad, and to a lesser extent Tyson, I am not quite sure about the DAC's.  I'll have to take Tyson up on his invitation.  I guess we can do a head to head with the MF A324 and the Mensa.  Lucky me I own both.

Once again, a pleasure gents.



     :D

Marbles

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #4 on: 29 Jun 2003, 04:44 pm »
Turk,

I read you have a TT.  I'm not sure what you have, but I noticed a very nice improvement when I inserted a Nitro Phono cable into my system.  Previously I used a SME VDH Hybrid Silver phono cable that came with my SME IV.

All my other cabling is Nitro from Bolder as well.

Good luck and welcome to Audiocircle.

To the other DAM members.....is he officially a "Made" man?

Turk, DAM = Denver Audio Mafia

Pez

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #5 on: 29 Jun 2003, 05:18 pm »
First of all I want to say Jerry is a fantastic host (hey what can I say, he gave me beer) and second he has one helluva system. Dynamic, well balance, and best of all (IMO) very tube like. As a matter of fact it was the smoothest sounding solid state system I have had the pleasure of listening to.

I was blown away by the sound of the JC-1's.  I really enjoyed their tonal characteristic.  Smooth, warm, not too analytical (if anything leaning on the overly forgiving side) it was just a pleasure to listen to. The RM-40's look absolutely gorgeous in piano black. They basically are the first thing you see when you walk in the room and they constantly demand your humbled attention. Very cool. 8)

Any way gotta go I'll write more later perhaps. :)

Turk

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 169
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #6 on: 29 Jun 2003, 05:20 pm »
Quote from: Marbles
Turk,

I read you have a TT.  I'm not sure what you have, but I noticed a very nice improvement when I inserted a Nitro Phono cable into my system.  Previously I used a SME VDH Hybrid Silver phono cable that came with my SME IV.

All my other cabling is Nitro from Bolder as well.

Good luck and welcome to Audiocircle.

To the other DAM members.....is he officially a "Made" man?

Turk, DAM = Denver Audio Mafia


Thanks Marbles,

It's a Eurolab Premier with Morch DP-6, arm.  I have a Benz/Schue with a Clearaudio Sigma Wood on order.  As to the DAM, the last guy I remember who was about to be "made" was Joe Pesci in "Goodfellas".    

God, better get one more set of Bybee Nitros.  This is closer to La Cosa Nostra than "the Audiophile Society".   I think I am going to be paying "protection"; then there were all those damn knives.  Shit, I forgot to check the piggy bank after the DAM left!      :o

Turk

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 169
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #7 on: 29 Jun 2003, 05:20 pm »
Quote from: Marbles
Turk,

I read you have a TT.  I'm not sure what you have, but I noticed a very nice improvement when I inserted a Nitro Phono cable into my system.  Previously I used a SME VDH Hybrid Silver phono cable that came with my SME IV.

All my other cabling is Nitro from Bolder as well.

Good luck and welcome to Audiocircle.

To the other DAM members.....is he officially a "Made" man?

Turk, DAM = Denver Audio Mafia


Thanks Marbles,

It's a Eurolab Premier with Morch DP-6, arm.  I have a Benz/Schue with a Clearaudio Sigma Wood on order.  As to the DAM, the last guy I remember who was about to be "made" was Joe Pesci in "Goodfellas".    

God, better get one more set of Bybee Nitros.  This is closer to La Cosa Nostra than "the Audiophile Society".   I think I am going to be paying "protection"; then there were all those damn knives.  Shit, I forgot to check the piggy bank after the DAM left!      :o

mgalusha

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #8 on: 29 Jun 2003, 05:35 pm »
I don't have a lot to add that Tyson, Brad and Jason haven't already covered. A big thanks to Gerry for letting us invade his home yesterday. :D

I really wanted to hear the Eurolab/Mǿrch/Benz combo but we ran out of time. Wayne and I brought along the Hagerman Bugle and Cornet phono stages but didn't have the chance to hear them. Hopefully Gerry will allow us another visit to play with the analog gear some time.

Along with Brad, I wasn't certain about the DAC's. Both were very good and I think some long term listening would be needed to fully flush out the strengths of each. At least from my perspective. The JC-1's were gorgeous and seemed very neutral, reflecting the signature of what was  connected to them more than adding anything themselves.

Again, thanks to Gerry for hosting us, it was a blast and I hope an event to be repeated.

Mike

John Casler

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #9 on: 29 Jun 2003, 05:54 pm »
Great report!!!

Good Stuff!!!

audioengr

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #10 on: 29 Jun 2003, 09:14 pm »
Which Pat Metheny disc did you use for this audition?

I have not been able to find a decent recording of his and I have most of them.  The live album from Paris is not bad(The Road to You), but the studio recordings are all mediocre at best.

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11482
  • Without music, life would be a mistake.
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #11 on: 29 Jun 2003, 09:36 pm »
Beyond the Missouri Sky was the disc we listened to.  It sounded pretty dang good to me, the bass plucks had a visceral punch to them, little details like fingers on fretboard were audible, guitar notes had a nice fullness and clean attack/decay.  The Patricia Barber track we listened to was better recorded in some ways (dynamics were crazy good), but I thought the Methany tracks sounded quite good.  One thing I did not listen for was soundstage and imaging, so can't really comment on that.

Tonto Yoder

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1587
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #12 on: 29 Jun 2003, 09:52 pm »
Is that Charlie Haden fella some newcomer on the big fiddle???? Nice of Metheny to give 'im a chance. :D

Marbles

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #13 on: 29 Jun 2003, 11:26 pm »
Turk,

I think our tables are comperable.  I have a TERES 255 -  (based on your Eurolab) with an SME IV and Symphonic Line RG8 ... See http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgcart&1062091546&2&3&4&

I do not have the SL "Gold" version but the one just below it.

I don't know what phono cable you have, but if you liked the Nitro IC's for your digital rig, I can recommend the Phono cable for your analog rig.

Turk

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 169
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #14 on: 29 Jun 2003, 11:35 pm »
Quote from: Marbles
Turk,

I think our tables are comperable.  I have a TERES 255 -  (based on your Eurolab) with an SME IV and Symphonic Line RG8 ... See http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgcart&1062091546&2&3&4&

I do not have the SL "Gold" version but the one just below it.

I don't know what phono cable you have, but if you liked the Nitro IC's for your digital rig, I can recommend the Phono cable for your analog rig.


Hi Marbles,

Your arm is better and your cartiridge is in the rarified air of the best.  Killer analogue rig  :)  Sure would like to hear it   Any new vinyl cLassical, jazz or classic rock that you are listening to that you recommend?  I 've been using TG audio for phono.

Marbles

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #15 on: 29 Jun 2003, 11:58 pm »
Turk,

I'm just really enjoying classic rock again like I haven't for about 10 years.

With digital I was mainly confined to jazz and blues.

I have not developed a taste for classical no matter how much influence (or CD's) Tyson gives me.

I would hesitate to even recomend anything at this point.

How about you?  Anything you really like on vinyl?

BTW, I really like most of Crumps stuff, how do you like your phono IC?

Wayne1

Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #16 on: 30 Jun 2003, 03:01 am »
I have been rather busy with being a hockey dad the last 28 hours.

I have to agree with most everyone elses comments.

As I made some of the cables we were listening to cables, I did pay a little more attention to those comparisons.

Jerry's system started out the day with TG Audio interconnects and the Synergistic Research speaker cables with active shielding. I do have to say the speaker cables were very impressive looking! really cool looking blue LEDs glowing and very large diameter. Mr. Crump's cables are also impressive and thick.

For my stuff, I feel that less is more. I do not use as much insulation and spacing as the other two cables. My products looked positively puny.

They did sound better, IMO :D

The JC-1s were very good sounding. Very full and deep. What impressed me the most, however was how well the Van Alstine amp hung in there with a pair of mono-blocks that cost about 3 times as much. The JC-1s and the MF gear sure looks a lot better, but the Van Alstine sounded just as good.

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11482
  • Without music, life would be a mistake.
Got to hear the Parasound JC-1's w/RM40's & TRT + FST to
« Reply #17 on: 30 Jun 2003, 03:32 am »
I also wanted to say that Turk (Jerry) played his 40's louder than I probably have ever played mine.  Listening to the Patricia Barber track (thunderous drums, bass, and cymbals), I was amazed that even at VERY loud levels they never got congested or strained sounding.  The headroom on these things are amazing!