Why people say gold plated is better than silver plated?

95bcwh · « **on:** 13 Nov 2006, 08:10 pm »

All,
One quick question: I'm looking for spade plugs to re-terminate my Usher Rapport Speaker cable, I went to an Audioquest dealer yesterday, he has both gold-plated and silver-plated plugs but he recommended gold-plated plugs. But I was thinking, if silver is a better conductor, why the hell is he saying that gold-plated is better??

Thanks
barry

jqp · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 08:13 pm »

Gold doesn't corrode as fast as silver, silver is a better conductor. How much gold plating, how much silver plating.

I say get out the tunneling electron microscope and the oscilliscopes.

Don't forget to try the copper also (what percent oxygen free)

And how are they connected and to what cables? Back to the drawing board

95bcwh · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 08:25 pm »

ok..then the dealer got it exactly wrong...your opinion is the same as mine: silver is better conductor, but Gold last longer. Talking about "uneducated dealers"!

NealH · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 09:05 pm »

For low level signals, such as interconnects in and around your source components, gold may indeed be the better choice due to it's intrinsically better oxidation immunity and, perhaps even lower contact resistance since the softer golds conform better and yield a better surface contact area. Actually, both Gold and Silver had excellent conductivity and, any realizable difference between the two is more likely due to the specific alloy of gold (it's impurity content) or, the base metal it is applied to or, the method of deposition (flash, spot weld or plated, diffusion, etc), or the actual contact area under a given force.

So, there is not a cut and dry answer to which material is better in actual use. I would say for speaker connections it is moot. For interconnects, I prefer gold. In the end, the electrical and/or design characteristics of the cable itself will have a greater impact on it's sonic characterisitic than whether it has a silver or gold termination.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 09:35 pm »

The last time I checked, the price of silver wasn't too bad. I've never seen "Solid Silver" terminations.
I understand that gold might be too soft to make a solid termination (obvious cost factor too), but solid silver seems like a good idea to me.

Bob

EProvenzano · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: Bob Jackson on 13 Nov 2006, 09:35 pm

The last time I checked, the price of silver wasn't too bad. I've never seen "Solid Silver" terminations.
I understand that gold might be too soft to make a solid termination (obvious cost factor too), but solid silver seems like a good idea to me.

Bob

I believe Eichman Silver Bullets are solid silver.
Also, Goertz sells solid silver spade lugs for speaker terminations.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: EProvenzano on 13 Nov 2006, 09:51 pm

I believe Eichman Silver Bullets are solid silver.

Yes. After a quick Google search, I found a review from RS cables regarding the Eichman Silver Bullets. They're $150 (it's the entire IC though) for 1 meter. But they advertise .9999 % pure solid silver, no plating.

Bob

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 10:42 pm »

Quote from: 95bcwh on 13 Nov 2006, 08:10 pm

One quick question: I'm looking for spade plugs to re-terminate my Usher Rapport Speaker cable, I went to an Audioquest dealer yesterday, he has both gold-plated and silver-plated plugs but he recommended gold-plated plugs. But I was thinking, if silver is a better conductor, why the hell is he saying that gold-plated is better??

Perhaps he doesn't listen to specs and numbers but listens to music instead and thinks gold plated ones simply sound better to him?

Just a hunch.

se

BradJudy · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Nov 2006, 12:17 am »

Also note that some connectors (like some items from Cardas and Home Grown Audio) are actually Rhodium plated, not silver plated. This is the same plating used on most(?) white gold jewelry to make it brighter and more white than "white" gold is on its own. I don't know the conductive properties of rhodium, but it certainly reinforces the concept of fancy connectors as audio "jewelry".

BTW: One of the reasons for silver plating copper is that when copper oxidizes, the result is a poorly (non?) conductive material. On the other hand, when silver oxidizes, the result is a material that still conducts electricity well.

warnerwh · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Nov 2006, 05:17 am »

You may want to try Luminous spades off of Audiogon. They're only 10 bucks for a set of 4 and very heavy duty. They'll fit any size lugs too.

These come in pure copper, gold plating or silver plating. I just put on some silver plated spades and couldn't tell the difference nor did I expect it to make a difference.

Gold will not oxidize like most any other metal I know of and being as it's not going to make a sonic difference is probably the best choice for longetivity.

F-100 · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Nov 2006, 05:27 am »

Barry,
If you want some Luminous spades, I got bunch of them. You can have them for free only if you will line me up a date with your friend's sister...

Just kidding Barry, just let me know if you need some.

95bcwh · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Nov 2006, 05:52 am »

Dude...are you ready to part with your wife to be with my friend's sister

, you can have the best of both world you know?

I think I'm just going to get my cable re-terminated with audioqueset spade plugs, I don't have crimp tool so I will have to rely on that dealers. The plugs are not expensive, about $4 each I think.

Quote from: F-100 on 14 Nov 2006, 05:27 am

Barry,
If you want some Luminous spades, I got bunch of them. You can have them for free only if you will line me up a date with your friend's sister...

Just kidding Barry, just let me know if you need some.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 01:54 am »

Quote

Actually, both Gold and Silver had excellent conductivity and, any realizable difference between the two is more likely due to the specific alloy of gold (it's impurity content) or, the base metal it is applied to or, the method of deposition (flash, spot weld or plated, diffusion, etc), or the actual contact area under a given force.

Just curious, if the gold plating is the final physical contact, how does the base metal underneath have an effect?

What specific influence would the method of plating have?

Cheers

jules · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 02:38 am »

too many unknowns ...

contact area

voltage

current

integrity of the thin gold surface in the contact area

exposure/contact of the base metal

corrosion of the base metal .. Copper, Silver, brass [zinc/copper]

compostion of the female/male plugs

quality of mechanical design of the plugs

interaction of different metals with the atmoshpere/humidity ... oxides, sulphides, chlorides

conductivity of the products of corrosion

time

If you don't give the plugs a clean every now and then, the last factor is probably going to override all the others.

jules

95bcwh · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 03:17 am »

Sorry for another newbie question, what's the best way to clean plugs?? Is there some kind of solution that I can buy?

Quote from: jules on 15 Nov 2006, 02:38 am

too many unknowns ...

contact area

voltage

current

integrity of the thin gold surface in the contact area

exposure/contact of the base metal

corrosion of the base metal .. Copper, Silver, brass [zinc/copper]

compostion of the female/male plugs

quality of mechanical design of the plugs

interaction of different metals with the atmoshpere/humidity ... oxides, sulphides, chlorides

conductivity of the products of corrosion

time

If you don't give the plugs a clean every now and then, the last factor is probably going to override all the others.

jules

HChi · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 03:27 am »

Quote from: Bob Jackson on 13 Nov 2006, 09:35 pm

The last time I checked, the price of silver wasn't too bad. I've never seen "Solid Silver" terminations.
I understand that gold might be too soft to make a solid termination (obvious cost factor too), but solid silver seems like a good idea to me.
Bob

FYI, these are the solid silver spades I used on two pairs of SCs I have.

99.999%, 15g +0.5, and yap, these oxide like crazy and need to be cleaned about once a month. If memory serves me right, the spades are more expensive than the cables that they are on.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 01:25 pm »

Quote from: HChi on 15 Nov 2006, 03:27 am

If memory serves me right, the spades are more expensive than the cables that they are on.

Maybe that's why they aren't very common. People don't want to mess with "maintenance" of their IC's.??

Bob

HChi · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: Bob Jackson on 15 Nov 2006, 01:25 pm

Quote from: HChi on 15 Nov 2006, 03:27 am
If memory serves me right, the spades are more expensive than the cables that they are on.

Maybe that's why they aren't very common. People don't want to mess with "maintenance" of their IC's.??

Bob

Regardless which plating the connectors have, these of us who clean the connectors on a periodic basis know metal oxide deposit removal is a good exercise that would restore the system back to its optimal state. Obviously using connectors that are pure silver and are with pure silver plating, its oxide deposit would form faster than others with non-silver plating. Luckily silver oxide is still highly conductive, unlike other metal oxides.

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 04:31 pm »

Quote from: HChi on 15 Nov 2006, 03:19 pm

Luckily silver oxide is still highly conductive, unlike other metal oxides.

Yeah, except that silver doesn't oxidize in air at room temperatures. The discoloration or "tarnish" that it picks up over time isn't silver oxide, it's silver sulfide.

se

Daygloworange · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Nov 2006, 04:41 pm »

I use RCA, XLR, and Phono plugs. RCA's rarely if ever ,go bad. XLR's can from time to time, phono plugs sometimes become tarnished on the sleeve and need to be scotch brited every once in a while. I've never looked into it, but I'm assuming the finish is chrome (?)on the sleeves.

Cheers