[PaulHilgeman]

I noticed one little variable was not taken into consideration in this test, namely the value of the capacitor.  No precision meter in sight to measure the actual values and match values of the various brands exactly.  In a circuit, when you change the value of a part, you change the sound, duhhhhh!

Oh well.

Frank Van Alstine

Outstanding point.  If these were tested in electronics, we need super precision here.

[Danny Richie]

Where were the Sonicaps?

Yea, I would have been glad to have sent them some Sonicaps and Sonicap Platinum's. It's a shame that they failed to try the Platinums. They certainly would have restructured the list.

I too was kind of hoping the V-OIMP's would be in there.

I think those made this comparison: http://www.10audio.com/sonicap_oimp_multicap.htm

[Brian Cheney]

I have to agree with Danny.

Also, .1uF is a very small value for an output coupling cap of a CD player, or signal coupling in most circuits. Part tolerances should have been checked and matched, since even a 5% variation will influence the sound.

Still, a teflon dialectric capcitor should perform better, and it's heartening that values as large as 3.3uF (good enough for a tweeter crossover) are now available in a reasonable physical size.

[Danny Richie]

I have to agree with Danny.

Huh? What? Ah, wait a minute.

Did the planets just realign?

[Brad]

I thought I felt a tremor (and I'm 250 miles away in Houston)

Danny?  Brian?   Did the quake hit harder there?   


Agreed on the measured value affecting the sound.  Seems like a pretty important starting point.

[Brian Cheney]

I did original research back in the 80's on capacitor sound quality, configurations, tolerances, and bypassing.

I have never heard the Sonicap (Jeff does not sample OEM's) but everyone seems to like them.

If you're sending the signal through a passive device, you'd better know what's happening to it (the signal, that is).  This is why most high end designers are sticklers about parts.

[Gooch]

If they had reviewed SoniCaps it would have put an end to communism, as we know it. aa

[avahifi]

If they had matched the capacitor values before testing I might pay attention to the results.  Without matching values, the whole article is just more audiophlake foo foo dust and arm waving purple prose without substance at all.

More tire testing without a pressure gauge or wheel balancer.

How can so many of you get sucked into this nonsense?  "I like it" without controlled testing does not count.  The guy on the back of the bus with the boombox turned up to full distort can say "I like it" too, and mean it just as much as uncontrolled audio listening tests.  If you don't control the variables, your tests are absolutely useless.

Frank Van Alstine

[Brian Cheney]

Methodology is suspect, test bed inadequtely described and implemented, results described in purely subjective hyperbolic terms.

Still the teflon cap should sound better.

[jeffreybehr]

Hmm...Frank and Brian, to me your comments sound a bit too much like sour grapes.  It sort of sounds as if you're saying 'I didn't test these or control the tests so the results aren't reliable'.

Frank, do you really think that the, say, detail resolution of an output-coupling cap will be different depending on whether the cap's filter point is, say, 1.9Hz v. 2.1Hz?   ASSUMing each cap met its tolerance specs, that's the only difference I can think of that would be due to value differences. 

Brian, you're not satisfied with his description of the test system?  Why?  MUST you know more to give more (? any?) credence to the results?  "Still the teflon cap should sound better."  Isn't tied for Best good enough?  The two Teflon-film caps in the test ranked tied-for-Best and 2nd-best; that's not good enough?  Or did you mean "Still the teflon cap should sound better" ...than the AudioNote Silver/Mylar' and just didn't write that?

The comments of you fellows sound simply like griping, sort of as if your fave didn't win so it can't be right. 

tvad, you quoted Frank's entire note; WHICH is an excellent point?

[amplifierguru]

The best sounding cap would have to be NO CAP!!

DC couple.

[serengetiplains]

My two cents: of course the results are valid: they count as one person's perspective.

And, yes, the best cap is no cap, but the last time I looked, amplifiers use the nasty things in power supplies, among other places.  Those capacitors are "direct coupled," with intervening other components or not, to your signal.

[Scott F.]

If they had matched the capacitor values before testing I might pay attention to the results. 

I just re-read the article. I didn't see where they said that they checked values......but on the other hand, why would you make the assumption that they didn't 

How can so many of you get sucked into this nonsense?

...easy, I've listened a large portion of the same capacitors (11 of 21) as the author and I came to the same conclusion. You might try installing some in place of the Wima's you (appear) use on your gear and judge for yourself before summarily dismissing this as drivel.

[pjchappy]

Scott, I love the word 'drivel.'

My 2 cents.   


p

[Scott F.]

Scott, I love the word 'drivel.'

My 2 cents.   


p

Hey Paul, are you going to make it to the Christmas Bash this year? Should be tons of fun with loads of gear

(sorry for the minor thread jack)

[pjchappy]

When and where?  I've been out of the loop.  I still need my Pink Floyd vinyl lesson.

I'll put this kinda back on topic. . .anyone here w/ experience in changing caps in an electric guitar, please let me know what you've heard. . .now, everyone, back on topic, fully!!!!! 

p

[Brian Cheney]

No sour grapes here, as the tester did not examine speaker crossover caps.  So I have no favorite brands to defend.

Teflon is the best dielectric, so a well-constructed teflon cap should sound better.  Most engineers know that and don't argue with it.  Teflon caps are too large and expensive for most speaker crossovers, though you could make a tweeter crossover that would add about $1600 to the price of a commercial pair of speakers using the Vcaps at the 25pc price.

I can't speak for Frank, but like him I'd want more science and less hype in the comparisons. 

[Brian Cheney]

Jeffrey:

of course I have to know the exact details of the system in which the comparison tests were made, or the results are not duplicatable.  It's not physics if you can't duplicate the test and get the same results.

[bpape]

The verification of values I can maybe understand, though realistically, even a full +/-5% swing on a .1 cap is only going to be +/-.005 mf.

Knowing the complete system to me is irrelevent - other than to try to understand it's inherent character and how it might skew the listener's impressions to a certain extent.  Other than that, it's his opinion - no more, no less - just like any other designer or reviewer.

Bryan

[DSK]

...Teflon is the best dielectric, so a well-constructed teflon cap should sound better.  Most engineers know that and don't argue with it.  Teflon caps are too large and expensive for most speaker crossovers, though you could make a tweeter crossover that would add about $1600 to the price of a commercial pair of speakers using the Vcaps at the 25pc price...

Brian, do you believe teflon bypass caps (0.01uf) are worthwhile in speaker xo's that use decent caps (eg. Sonicaps) and make audible improvements?