Dropping SACD for Redbook NOS DAC?

PaulFolbrecht · « **on:** 30 Oct 2006, 11:38 pm »

I posted the below on the agon forums... looking for input here from folks that have "dumped" SACD. I'm on the verge of going with a modded, battery Olive transport and NOS DAC.. really really like what I've heard so far from the NOS DACs on redbook (amazing). But I have a bit of "cold feet", as it were, and don't want to regret this. (Even though the SACD catalog is SMALL and most of what I listen to is redbook anyway!!)

------------------------------
Silly question? Maybe not. I've been really enjoying the SACD format for some time. Relatively recently, I've been exposed to NOS DACs and have found there are a LOT of similarities: smoothness. They both sound like analog!!

So, now I'm at a point where I'm considering dumping my SACDP for a computer-based system with NOS/filterless DAC. I was just wondering if others have gone this very same route and have thoughts to share?

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 04:09 am »

I still have a Sony XA777ES but gave up on SACD for lack of titles for cheap. I have a Bolder modded SB2 that I use with a EA modded Northstar DAC as well as an EA I2S Offramp for the same DAC. Both sound better with redbook Cd's than stock Sony XA777ES with same titles in SACD format. There just is so much more music for redbook Cd's than SACDs that I don't regret dropping SACD. I am currently still loading music onto a NAS server. I get Cd's on the cheap by using Craig's list to pick up collections (less then $1.5 per CD) and then using Lala.com to trade duplicates and unwanted Cd's for the ones I want. The convenience of a digital music server (think huge programable jukebox) is also a major plus. This thread turned into a NOS DAC discussion which may interest you. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=32860.0 I was intrigued enough to pick up a Paradisea for under $500. I put up a bid for less then $500 and lost on an E-Bay auction. But then the seller offered me another one on a second chance buy now price for what I bid. So I took it. I am curious how it compares with my Northstar which is all about up and over sampling. Off ramp with foobar is even processed with Secret Rabbit Code/ASIO. Paradisea takes a completely opposite tact and I want to hear for myself what the difference is. Who knows? Maybe it will take off and I can sell it off at a profit later.

Or keep it and sell off the others for $$$

Marbles · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 04:29 am »

Let us know what you think of it...

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 08:07 am »

I dropped SACD a year ago (Shanling SCDT200 modded by UnderWood HiFi) for an RWA modded SB2 and never looked back. Today my audio chain consists of 450GB of WAV, FLAC, MP3 files => RWA SB2 => Altmann DAC => SinglePower MPX3 SE (maxxed) => AudioSector Patek SE => Bob Brines' FTA-2000s. While several components (ICs, digital link, DAC) are still breaking in, the whole setup is consistently giving me happiest hours: A sound that's naturally agile, ambience and decay-rich, background so black it's easy and pleasant to discern vocal or instrumental parts playing simultaneously. Highs are extended w/o being edgy, bass are OMG so tuneful and full and deep at the same time. Several FIM CDs, not sounding good enough to justify the costly price, now become creme de la creme. At this time I just wish to have enough time to re-discover my music library.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 08:13 am »

I could perhaps give up SACD, but I'd have an awfully hard time parting with DVD-A. Still, an SB3 is definately in the cards.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 01:35 pm »

Is that because your DVD-A is multichannel?

I should've mentioned I'm talking about 2ch SACD. Don't do multi. Never cared for it. Besides, who on earth can afford 5 really good speakers?

woodsyi · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 04:55 pm »

Quote from: Marbles on 31 Oct 2006, 04:29 am

Let us know what you think of it...

I paid via Paypal at noon Friday Oct 27th. I just received Paradisea DAC from Taiwan at 11:30 AM Tuesday Oct 31st. I call that fast service.

toobluvr · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 31 Oct 2006, 04:09 am

I put up a bid for less then $500 and lost on an E-Bay auction. But then the seller offered me another one on a second chance buy now price for what I bid. So I took it.

Hey Woodsyi....that was me (nyctoobluvr) who won that auction!

Then again, you paid less, so who really won!

Quote from: woodsyi on 31 Oct 2006, 04:09 am

I paid via Paypal at noon Friday Oct 27th. I just received Paradisea DAC from Taiwan at 11:30 AM Tuesday Oct 31st. I call that fast service.

Gotcha beat...again!

I Pay-pal'd the money 11:15 AM Friday.
The DAC was on my doorstep at 11 AM Monday!!

mikef · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 05:50 pm »

Toobluvr and Woodsyi, let us know how you like the Paradisea after you have some experience with it. I'm thinking of trying one myself for a different sound than the Cary 303-200 I have.

By the way, I went from a Philips 963 to the Cary and never looked back - lack of interesting (to me) material in SACD, and a much better sound with the Cary on the over 700 CDs I own. For my hi-rez listening I use vinyl

Mike

Brad · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 06:00 pm »

Also curious to hear what you think of the Paridisea......

The Renaissance II looks like a nice piece o' gear, too
Having a hard time deciding between the MHDT Labs and the Derek Shek.

I like the Altmann too, but it's at a higher price point.

thx

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 08:00 pm »

I also just lost an auction for a Para. DAC.. dang.

toobluvr · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 08:32 pm »

Quote from: PaulFolbrecht on 31 Oct 2006, 08:00 pm

I also just lost an auction for a Para. DAC.. dang.

Just keep watching e-bay.
Several times a week, he puts them up as a "buy it now" item @ $499 + s/h.
When you see it, just hit it and lock it in.

Recent auction prices are getting to that level anyway, and in some cases, exceeding it.
Makes no sense....impatience, I guess.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 10:53 pm »

The para. DAC was for my office setup. It can wait.

I made the move on the Olive. Got a good deal on one and have it on the way to Vinnie the Master for re-edumacation. I won't see it till he's done.

Am also getting a good deal on a demo ack! DAC.

I think I'll likely be very satisfied with this setup.

reddmadder · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Nov 2006, 03:31 pm »

Hi,
I've tried the unmodded Olive with the Ack. To my ears the Ack,while a fine piece,sounded dry and lifeless in my S.E.T. system. Hopefully you'll have better results.
In general, having tried battery powered ampsand dac's (also SACD)which all tout the lowered noise floor and black background attributes, to my ears, the music always seems unatural,and to some extent it is. Go to a concert and there's noise either from the crowds or from the musicians amps. I can't think of any place where background noise is not present when music is being played with the exception of a recording studio and that's not totally silent either.
For me noise from a tube amp breathes a little life into the music.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Nov 2006, 03:41 pm »

Paul, if you're getting a demo Ack!, it probably isn't broken in. Especially the high resolution option takes for-ev-er.

The downside of battery-powered gear is that it sucks to break in.

I really liked mine, I thought it was punchy and pretty darn extended, considering how successful it was at filtering out the digital hash.

I only sold mine to make room for the mo' expensive Altmann.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 03:48 am »

Woodsi & Paul - by the way - thanks for your feedback. It is good to get feedback like this.

My current source is also a Shanling T200. Stock (and it is a damn fine player stock). Most SACDs definitely sound better than most redbook on this player, but the thing is, again, I can't get a good 80% of what I want on SACD anyway. Probably a lot more than that, actually. And other than that, the NOS DACs on redbook I have heard lately sound probably at least as good as SACD in my system, or very similar at least. Liquid and smooth. Which is what started this.

Unfortunately, since Vinnie is very talanted and people know it, there's a 3-4 week wait for the modded Olive.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 03:50 am »

Quote from: miklorsmith on 1 Nov 2006, 03:41 pm

Paul, if you're getting a demo Ack!, it probably isn't broken in. Especially the high resolution option takes for-ev-er.

The downside of battery-powered gear is that it sucks to break in.

I really liked mine, I thought it was punchy and pretty darn extended, considering how successful it was at filtering out the digital hash.

I only sold mine to make room for the mo' expensive Altmann.

He said it has 150 hours or so.

Anyway that will be here long before the new source.

I also snagged an entry-level MHDT USB DAB ("Dialogue"??) for the office.

So I'm done now with audio spending for... well, for a long long time.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 03:54 am »

Quote from: reddmadder on 1 Nov 2006, 03:31 pm

Hi,
I've tried the unmodded Olive with the Ack. To my ears the Ack,while a fine piece,sounded dry and lifeless in my S.E.T. system. Hopefully you'll have better results.
In general, having tried battery powered ampsand dac's (also SACD)which all tout the lowered noise floor and black background attributes, to my ears, the music always seems unatural,and to some extent it is. Go to a concert and there's noise either from the crowds or from the musicians amps. I can't think of any place where background noise is not present when music is being played with the exception of a recording studio and that's not totally silent either.
For me noise from a tube amp breathes a little life into the music.

My setup of the Shanling + TVC into 845 SET monoblocks is pretty damn quiet already. I have to have my ear within just a couple inches of a driver to hear *anything*. Frankly, unless you've got quite hi-eff speakers - 95dB+ - I think the noise floor angle of battery power is overrated. But there are other advantages to that ultra-stable naturally DC power supply, of course.

Anyway, there's always ambient background noise. It's not the *same* thing as system noise, but it has a pretty similar effect, doesn't it?

Brad · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 04:02 am »

Paul - let us know what you think of the Dialogue II.

I don't think I'd use the USB input, but it sounded pretty good from the description.....

reddmadder · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Nov 2006, 09:56 am »

Paul,
I have 95 db speakers so tube singing is audible and not offensive. I agree, the battery power spec. is way overrated. It sounds like the music is emanating from a vacuum(bun intended)and to my ears only enchances the "digital"effect rather than tame it.
Yes there is no digital harshness but no life either IMHO.
I've had the same reaction with different amplifcation and sacd.
It's akin to listening to a "live" recording versus a studio recording.
Just my 2 cents.