[tbrooke]

This is mainly for John because I remember seeing he did it but I'm not sure where it was mentioned. Anyway, John, I believe you said you turned your subs on there sides so they fired directly into the room. This seem like a good idea for my situation. So How do you do it? I guess I could look but is the botrtom plate screwed on? Will I bust up my subs doing it? Can I put the bottom plate back on? WIll it mess up the structural integrity of the cabinet? Any gotchas? (I have the original subs)

Tom

[John Casler]

This is mainly for John because I remember seeing he did it but I'm not sure where it was mentioned. Anyway, John, I believe you said you turned your subs on there sides so they fired directly into the room. This seem like a good idea for my situation. So How do you do it? I guess I could look but is the botrtom plate screwed on? Will I bust up my subs doing it? Can I put the bottom plate back on? WIll it mess up the structural integrity of the cabinet? Any gotchas? (I have the original subs)

Tom

Hi Tom,

How are your new 626R's?

The VMPS subs can be "oriented" any number of ways for fun and enjoyment.

Brian has designed them to operate the best with the PR firing into a limited space chamber (slot) that has an opening that is a specific size to cause the loading Resistance to make it the most accurate.

That said the putty adjustable PR does offer other orientations because that load Resistance of the chamber can also be taken over by adding putty.

Or....You can leave the "bottom plate" screwed on to the chamber and it is the same as having it on the floor.

OK, now the things to remember are that the PR needs a "specific" resistance either via mass (putty) or pressurized impedance to give the most accurate bass to the system.

If you place the sub on its side and the PR is now in a vertical rather than horizontal position, the mass of the PR is "lighter" due to the fact that it is in the vertical plane, and is moved "back and forth", rather than having to be lifted "up and down", in which case it is then effectively heavier.

Does that make sense?

Additionally, if you remove the side plate, you need add even more mass, to get the best deep bass definition and weight.

I have had the PR firing to both sides, to the rear, and to the ceiling, all to good effect.

I now have the front LARGERS about 3 feet off the floor, so the tops are about even with the tops of my RM30's which are also about 8" off the floor.

Some "bass experts" have written that placing a SUB in the center of your room "height wise" can have some advantages, so I am trying it.

Be careful however, since the darn things weigh well over 100 pounds each and have very little to hold on to, when lifting them.

Also DO NOT try to lift the subs by holding onto the Slot Bases.  These are only connected with a few screws, and will NOT take the force without disengaging and possibly causing you some serious aggravation.

USE CAUTION!!

[tbrooke]

The 626R's are doing great I love them. I'm playing with the subs trying to get things integrated better and it looks like I've started down a road of unending fiddling. I've played with putty and following suggestions on the Hometheatershack forum I've started fiddling with their Room Equalizer Wizard and I've installed an equalizer. The REW got me concerned about the subs since it was showing them rolling of at 30 hz which I thought was too high. I started adding putty and it seemed like I got a ton of putty on there and it got a pretty good reponse down to around 20 hz but it doesn't sound as good (a little bass heavy probably too much putty) I am using something called rope caulk since I couldn't find mortite and I am wondering if it is ligher than mortite and takes more. Anyway I guess the fiddling is part of what this is all about.

Tom

[John Casler]

The 626R's are doing great I love them. I'm playing with the subs trying to get things integrated better and it looks like I've started down a road of unending fiddling. I've played with putty and following suggestions on the Hometheatershack forum I've started fiddling with their Room Equalizer Wizard and I've installed an equalizer. The REW got me concerned about the subs since it was showing them rolling of at 30 hz which I thought was too high. I started adding putty and it seemed like I got a ton of putty on there and it got a pretty good reponse down to around 20 hz but it doesn't sound as good (a little bass heavy probably too much putty) I am using something called rope caulk since I couldn't find mortite and I am wondering if it is ligher than mortite and takes more. Anyway I guess the fiddling is part of what this is all about.

Tom

Keep in mind the "key" issue when adding subs is "integration".  If you run the 626R's full range, then they have response in som setting down to 25Hz!!!!

If you are then rolling the SUB in on top of that you may be getting significant cancellation.

If the sub and 626R have "overlapping" frequencies, and are not in the same "plane" then you have introduction of complicated phase issues. 

That is, if you have the subs rolling it at 40, and the 626Rs are also producing 40Hz, then the "wave launch" of each must be such that the wave arrives to you at the same time, or you have "issues".

So you are correct, that you will need to "fiddle" a bit, but armed with that knowledge, you might have a leg up on getting it right.

I would suggest to reduce (as much as possible) the frequencies that overlap.  That will give you a cleaner signal to work with and is far less complicated than dialing in the phases of each.

Let us know your progress.

[tbrooke]

Lost in the putty

Ok I've read the putty pinching thread and I have some caulk putty - not mortite but something that comes in a roll - the roll is about 5 cords (about 1/16 inch for a total strip about 1/2 inch or so wide) I played with my REW response graphs and it seem the more putty I added the deeper my response. I kept rolling off at 30 hz and  wanted to go deeper. Eventually I ended up with a bunch of putty and increased the response at 20 hz and then boom all my putty ended up on the floor of the subwoofer - obviously too much. No I'm back to just a little putty. I know the original amount was 8" but since I don't have the mortite what is the diameter of the 8 inch Rope

Tom - Lost in putty and EQ

[John Casler]

Lost in the putty

Ok I've read the putty pinching thread and I have some caulk putty - not mortite but something that comes in a roll - the roll is about 5 cords (about 1/16 inch for a total strip about 1/2 inch or so wide) I played with my REW response graphs and it seem the more putty I added the deeper my response. I kept rolling off at 30 hz and  wanted to go deeper. Eventually I ended up with a bunch of putty and increased the response at 20 hz and then boom all my putty ended up on the floor of the subwoofer - obviously too much. No I'm back to just a little putty. I know the original amount was 8" but since I don't have the mortite what is the diameter of the 8 inch Rope

Tom - Lost in putty and EQ

Hi Tom,

Couple things:

Where do you have your sub sitting in your room?
Where is it in relation to your main speakers?
Are you running a straight signal, or "equalizing"?

Things to try:

1) Put the slot on backwards so that it fires to the rear.  While bass freq that low are "omnidirectional" the PR is always "out of phase" with the active drivers.

2) If your putty is falling off, turn the sub upside down, and start again.  If you find the putty "on the ceiling" then you have gone too far (that is a joke, except the upside down part)

3) If you are measuring at your listening area, try measuring at other places in the room.  While the goal is to acheive the result in that area, the first thing you might want to do is find the capabilities of the subs output.  Find the best output, even if it is in the corner, to see what the capabilities are.  If you are getting 17 or 18 at -3db somewhere in the room, then you know it has those capabilities, and it is a matter of room treatment/placement to acheive close to that at the listening position.
(edit: keep in mind a "corner" reading will be elevated db wise due to corner loading room gain, but what you're looking for is frequency)

The sub will only be able to produce what the room will support and allow it to produce.  If the back wave is reflecting off the front wall, in a way that causes it to collide with the "returning" wave off the rear wall then you will expereince modes/nodes.

Also, strangely enough, I am not a 100% beleiver in using "test tones" to tell me what I am hearing.  That is, bass is not always a "sustained" frequency.  It is a dynamic implementation of musical frequencies, so the modes and nodes you measure may not be as dramatic as the measurment.

So do a lot of listening, to see what sound you are getting.

Additionally, if you have doors and or windows in the room, and can open them, do so.

The more bass you let out, the less will be bounced back into the room on its destructive journey

[tbrooke]

I like the upside down idea. I think I'll try it Actually what I have is a cabinet that was built in when we redid our house and I had them build enclosures that are about 3 inches off the floor and sort of in a corner (the whole entertainment center is between two columns and the subs are next to the columns - kind of hard to explain but it is a large room 24 ft x 40 ft by ceiling peek at 30 ft - yes it needs accoustic treatment and no I can't aford it

 My 626s - now 626Rs have left the entertainment center and are in front of it. The sub enclosures leave about 6 inches around the subs and I have tried several things but the latest is to pack the area around the subs with fibeglass insulation, which I don't think really helps. I know I have sort of a dual enclosure thing going on but I figure it doesn't matter for subs. There is a vibration thing going on with the cabinet but it is so solid that I don't think it matters and windows etc in the room rattle before the entertainment center does so I haven't worried about it.   I'll keep experimenting

Tom
Tom