[James Romeyn]

Why are spades so much more popular vs. rings?  Rings offer more electrical contact, greater friction & can't slide off.  Spades seem better only if/when a ring cannot fit over the binding post. 

Your thoughts, oh great audio sages?  I must be missing something obvious.

[Steve Eddy]

Why are spades so much more popular vs. rings?

Just the way the market played out I guess.

Rings offer more electrical contact...

Yeah, though marginally more. How much do you really need?

...greater friction...

Not sure exactly what you mean by this. 'Splain.

...& can't slide off.

I've never had a spade slide off. Well, not unless I wanted it to.

Spades seem better only if/when a ring cannot fit over the binding post.

Well, in my experience, rings seem to be a solution in search of a problem. My only problem with spades is that most of the ones sold for audio use are just freakishly large. Rather like XLR connectors in that respect.

se

[Haoleb]

there are alot of binding posts that dont unscrew all the way. Hence you cant get the rings on them.

[Steve Eddy]

there are alot of binding posts that dont unscrew all the way. Hence you cant get the rings on them.

Yeah. And of course the problem with the ones that do unscrew all the way so you can get the rings on them is well... you have to unscrew them all the way to get the rings on them. 

se

[James Romeyn]

there are alot of binding posts that dont unscrew all the way. Hence you cant get the rings on them.

Yeah. And of course the problem with the ones that do unscrew all the way so you can get the rings on them is well... you have to unscrew them all the way to get the rings on them. 

se

  It's always fun reading something when you already have filled in the last several words in your mind....

[James Romeyn]

there are alot of binding posts that dont unscrew all the way. Hence you cant get the rings on them.

Thanks.  Just like I said, I knew I was missing something obvious.  To spade or to ring?  That is the question...

[Steve Eddy]

Thanks.  Just like I said, I knew I was missing something obvious.  To spade or to ring?  That is the question...

Well, if you're not in a position where you have to consider the marketplace, why does the answer have to be limited to spades or rings? Are you in a position where you need to consider the marketplace?

se

[James Romeyn]

Thanks.  Just like I said, I knew I was missing something obvious.  To spade or to ring?  That is the question...

Well, if you're not in a position where you have to consider the marketplace, why does the answer have to be limited to spades or rings? Are you in a position where you need to consider the marketplace?

se

No, no market considerations at all.  The following allows only the use of rings or spades: I'm now replacing normal conductive binding posts w/ nylon steel center-reinforced screws, nylon washers & nlyon nuts.  The internal speaker wires (& the input wires on the outboard xo) exit their respective boxes a few inches, will be terminated, then will couple to the outside world at the nylon binding posts.  The point is to completely eliminate any magnetic & other interaction common to every other known coupling mechanism.  Just two little terminals compressed together by two non-conductive nylon nuts on a nylon threaded screw.  These 1/4" nylon fasteners allow a tremendous quantity of torque, much more than you'd expect.  The threads are quite large.  My opinion is that this architecture is the best for its intended purpose, but I'm always open to learning something new.   

[Steve Eddy]

No, no market considerations at all.  The following allows only the use of rings or spades: I'm now replacing normal conductive binding posts w/ nylon steel center-reinforced screws, nylon washers & nlyon nuts.  The internal speaker wires (& the input wires on the outboard xo) exit their respective boxes a few inches, will be terminated, then will couple to the outside world at the nylon binding posts.  The point is to completely eliminate any magnetic & other interaction common to every other known coupling mechanism.  Just two little terminals compressed together by two non-conductive nylon nuts on a nylon threaded screw.  These 1/4" nylon fasteners allow a tremendous quantity of torque, much more than you'd expect.  The threads are quite large.  My opinion is that this architecture is the best for its intended purpose, but I'm always open to learning something new.

Ah. Well, that can work.

Not exactly sure what you mean by "magnetic & other interaction common to every other known coupling mechanism" though. Could you elaborate a bit? Are you essentially looking for a low mass solution a la the likes of Eichmann?

se

[James Romeyn]

With a regular metallic post, the signal comes from the amp, through the spade, which is compressed against a metallic nut, the signal passes from the nut threads to the post threads to the post, through the nut threads to the nut, which is compressed against a ring terminal, then through the wire soldered to the ring terminal.  That seems like a mess to me.   

My way as described, two wires are connected to spades which are compressed together; no other metallic contact. 

[Steve Eddy]

With a regular metallic post, the signal comes from the amp, through the spade, which is compressed against a metallic nut, the signal passes from the nut threads to the post threads to the post, through the nut threads to the nut, which is compressed against a ring terminal, then through the wire soldered to the ring terminal.  That seems like a mess to me.   

My way as described, two wires are connected to spades which are compressed together; no other metallic contact.

Ok, I see what you mean now.

Though if you use the binding posts with the solder turret on the end and solder the cable to it, you'll essentially end up with the same thing. Instead of cable/spade/spade/cable, it'd be cable/spade/post/cable.

se

[James Romeyn]

Steve
Please stop posting!   I am very dumb.  I have too many options already!!!!!

[Steve Eddy]

Please stop posting!   I am very dumb.  I have too many options already!!!!!

Darn! Just when I was about to offer several alternative suggestions. 

se

[TheChairGuy]

Jim,

Not to blow your mind or anything  , but I've found speaker pins to be the best solution, most versatile overall, without notable compromises.  They fit snug in eyelets of 5 way posts, fit in spring terminals...they fit everywhere I've directed them to.

Parts Express has them, and dang cheap. Looks like they are on sale, too. Piece of cake to attach to wire, as well (unlike nasty crimping or soldering for rings and spades)

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-1255

[lcrim]

I was doing some research last night re: speaker cables over on the Asylum.  I was looking for info on the Speltz Anti-cables and there was a thread which was about removing the inexpensive spades from the premade anti-cables.  At least in the opinion of some, there was an audible gain from removing the spades and using bare connections. 
The question this brings up to the present thread - which connector "sounds' best is what concerns me more than any other.  My Vandersteen 1C's require bananas so the point is moot but I am getting new speakers soon and they could be used w/ bare wire and apparently the most widely held opinion is that no connector sounds best.
Spades or rings, soldered or crimped, (Jon Risch was firmly opposed to soldering or "tinning" the ends-crimping is preferred, actually thats a mil and aircraft spec) can lead to sound degradation in the view of some.

[James Romeyn]

For a practical speaker termination (not semi-permanent, see below) the Jimbolaya method has the least possible number of components.  There are absolutely no conductive parts except for the spade terminals, which are cinched/torqued together by a non-conductive nylon clamping mechanism.

If there’s a practical, easy to connect & disconnect method w/ fewer components, I’m all ears.

I think metallic conductive binding posts are better avoided.   

I haven't tried hard-soldering, which may be audibly superior.  I have tried bare wires treated w/ Caig Pro-Gold, twisted them together, & installed a wire nut.  For use in the field these methods have obvious practical drawbacks.  I’ve tried the wire nuts.  With the AWG12 I’m using it’s an absolute bear to un-twist & reuse the wire.  Wire nuts look totally cob & unprofessional to me (only my opinion), & I’m beyond that stage of the hobby now, with all due respect to anyone else w/ a different view. 

Besides, the Jimbolaya method seems to sound better than the wire nuts. 

[DSK]

The Eichmann CablePods also minimise the amount of metal hardware in the binding post and are made from copper.

[James Romeyn]

DSK
Thanks very much for the referal.  The Eichmann CablePods have an interesting architecture, & appear to be much better than any other binding post.  They sure aren't cheap at $50ea (two posts).

The Jimbolaya Technology (PNP-patents not pending) costs less.  Also, because there is absolutely no post whatsover, & the sum total conductors are two spade terminals, it has the potential to sound even better than the Pods.

Retrofitting any posts, including the Jimbolaya Technology, in a biwire/biamp outboard xo w/ 3-pairs output wires & 3 pairs of inputs on the speakers, is troublesome, time consuming, & humiliatingly tedious.  Not for the faint of heart. 

We'll get feedback on this experiment after our Bay Area Audio Circle meeting Saturday.

How 'bout a link to your speakers?  Ribbons interest me.

[DSK]

Hi Jim,
I've used the Ambiences for the last 5 years or so...
http://www.ambiencespeakers.com.au/

but have just replaced them with sealed Selah Audio ScanSpeak References ...
www.selahaudio.com (see comments here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26800.90 and building pics here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;user=234)

I crimped female spade lugs onto the woofer wires and the supplied ring connectors onto the Fountek ribbons. I have Eichmann CablePods ready to install but there wasn't time for my friend to solder them on for me before my shoulder operation. So, as a temporary measure, I picked up some piggyback banana connectors from electronics store for a couple of bucks each. A grub screw secures the wire from xo into the piggyback connector like a normal banana plug. There is a hole near the base of that banana (right next to the grubscrew) for the banana plug on my speaker cables to push into ....almost no extra metal between the xo wire and banana on speaker cable. Being cheap they are not copper based but the minimal metal makes me doubt I'll hear any improvement when I get the Pods installed.

Is there a link/pics of this Jimbalaya method?

[James Romeyn]

DSK
Ohhhhh....ahhhhhh......If the one speaker I heard that Rick built is any indication (early model, mid-size 3-way standmount, paper 6.5", 2" dome (Morel?), maybe 3/4" dome, he is absolutely one of my favorite dessigners.  I favor Rick's design goals.  Other than what I currently have a pair of Rick's would make me a happy camper.  I am looking forward to hearing Rick's speakers at RMAF '07.  When I used to build speakers I thought of Rick's same blending of driver size diameters.  It's odd that its not more common.  Just for the heck of it, immediately after hearing Rick's speakers I heard a pair of Theil & B&W.  Both were imminently unmusical vs. Rick's.

Pictures later after I change some metal nuts to nylon, arriving soon.  Here's the 2-page post description:

Jimbolya Post Technology + Outboard XO Interface, by Jim Romeyn

Rather than standard metallic binding posts (20 posts sum total for this speaker project), nylon flat washers, nylon lock-nuts w/ shoulder, & nylon knurled-thumb screws w/ shoulder are utilized.  A supplier for all parts & part numbers are mentioned below.  The non-conductive fasteners only clamp the spades together; the signal no longer travels through any type metallic post, nuts & associated threads & wire terminals.  No large, unnecessary conductive parts are utilized.  This is the purest form of speaker interface other than solder or wire nuts.
 
The nylon screw heads go inside the terminal boards to expose the threads outside the boards.  Slide a washer on the screw to elevate the lower lock-nut, which increase finger clearance to ease attaching the spade terminals later.  The lower lock-nut then secures the screw to the terminal board.  Another washer goes atop the lower lock-nut to maximize the clamping & tension area of the spades.  Attach the top lock-nut loosely to leave room to insert the spades later. 

Later when the speakers are set up, two spade terminals will be clamped together between the upper washer & the shoulder of the top lock-nut.   

Use moderate torque on the nuts to avoid stripping the nylon threads.

The Outboard Xo (OXo)

Binding Post Inputs: Biamp/biwire inputs are featured.  There are two terminal boards sited vertically on the input side-panel.  Each terminal board has one pair input binding posts, centered, vertically sited, & labeled from the bottom up: “Below 280 Hz”, “Above 280 Hz”.  The posts are sited close to the top of each terminal board to ease fastening the spades later.   Drilled about 1.4” below each pair of binding posts is a 3/8” hole finished w/ a black plastic collar sleeve insert. 

One wire pair per input range passes through its respective sleeve described above.  The wires are cut about 6” from the OXO enclosure, are terminated w/ tin-plated copper locking spade terminals, & then attach to their respective binding posts. 

Speaker cables from the amp(s) are terminated w/ spades as above, which attach to the OXO input binding post inputs. 

Shorting jumpers are required for single-wire use.
             
Output Cables: The output side-panel is opposite the input binding posts.  Three 3/8” holes are drilled, centered & in a straight vertical line.  Each hole has inserted a black plastic collar sleeve.  The holes are labeled from the bottom up: “Bass”, “Midrange” & “Treble”.  One wire pair per output range passes through its respective sleeve.  The wires are cut about 15” from the OXo & terminated w/ spades as above, & then the spades attach to the speaker input binding posts.       

3-Way Speaker Inputs

Input Binding Posts: The speakers are 3-way w/ two terminal boards sited vertically.  The lower terminal board has one pair of input binding posts while the upper terminal board has two pairs.  The posts are centered, vertically sited, & labeled from the bottom up: “Bass”, “Midrange”, & “Treble”.  The Bass posts are sited close to the top of its terminal board to ease fastening the spades later.  On the upper terminal board the Mid posts are sited at 1/3rd height, the Treble at 2/3rds height. 

Drilled just below each pair of posts is a 3/8” hole finished w/ a black plastic collar sleeve insert.  One wire pair per input range passes through its respective sleeve described above.  The wires are cut about 6” from the terminal board, are terminated w/ tin-plated copper locking spade terminals, & then attach to their respective binding posts.  Inside the speaker the sleeve holes are air-tight sealed w/ hot melt glue. 

Wire Terminations

It is commonly recommended to only crimp the spade terminals & to avoid using solder.

Theory

The British Eichmann Bullet brand RCA plugs are well-known for high sound quality.  Their unique feature is conducting the ground signal via a tiny pencil-point-size spring-loaded metallic ball located at the narrow leading edge of an otherwise large non-conductive resin collar.  The sum total of the conductive mass equals only the tiny metallic ball.  There is similarly little conductive mass to Radio Shack’s RCA plug #274-321 (8/$2.99), which may also explain why they perform well even though they are easily broken.  The Jimbolaya Technology mimics the philosophy behind the Bullets & R.S. RCA plugs. 


Parts Supplier & Numbers

McMaster-Carr supplies nylon fasteners & tin-plated copper locking spade terminals: www.McMaster.com
1.   Off-white nylon lock-nuts w/ shoulder, p/n 94909A181, $8.65 for 100, need 20
2.   Off-white nylon flat washers, look up p/n, last purchased somewhere else, need 40
3.   Black plastic push-in wire sleeves, look up p/n, last purchased somewhere else, need 16
4.   Off-white nylon knurled-thumb shoulder screw, 1/4”-20 threads/inch, p/n 94323A541, $12.51 for 100, need 20
5.   Tin-plated copper locking spade terminals w/ yellow vinyl insulator, p/n 8007K53, $8.94 for 50, need 40

Please all who try this post your results.  If you like it, remember Jimbolaya told you about it (referred to as Jimbolaya Post Technology or JBT for short).  If you dislike like, leave me out of it…