[amdan]

Hi James,

This follows on from a post I made about a month ago.

I have a Bryston 14B ST, a tube pre-amp and a tube output stage CDP. I am in Sydney where the power supply is supposed to be 240V - 50 Hz.

Could you please let me know the Torus unit that I should get for my equipment.

I have power chords with American plugs and would like to be able to plug them straight into the Torus without the use of adaptors.

TIA.

[James Tanner]

Hi Amdan,

The International 8 amp or 16 amp Torus would be the one to use.
We can build one for you with US style plugs.

james

[James Tanner]

Hi Amdan,

I need a clarification - are you using 120 Volt USA gear with 120 Volt USA style cords/ plugs?

james

[amdan]

Hi Amdan,

I need a clarification - are you using 120 Volt USA gear with 120 Volt USA style cords/ plugs?

james

Hi James,

I am using 240V gear with the 120V USA style cords/plugs. I believe this is what most audiophiles do in Australia. Units like the Hydra and PS Audio PowerPlants come with the USA style power outlets enabling the use of USA style cords/plugs. I presume audiophiles elsewhere in the world with 240V do the same.

Judging from your kind offer to build me a unit, I assume the Torus does not already come in this configuration. I suspect it would be well worth your while to build an international unit with 240V and USA style outlets.

Could you please let me know the cost of getting a custom built unit?

Could you also let me know if I need the 16A rather than the 8A unit?

Would you also clarify what the outlets on the standard international units are? It looks like they are IEC connectors from the documentation.

Thanks and regards.

[James Tanner]

Hi amdan,

I am going to research this further but here is the statement received from Torus engineering (see below).
Do you know if the Hyra and PS Audio units are using 125 Volt rated receptacles. If so it would be a safety certification issue. We were thinking we may look at specific 240 volt receptacles for specific countries but till then use the approved IEC international receptacles.



TORUS IEC INTERNATIONAL VS NORTH AMERICA NEMA PLUGS

Torus North American units feature Medical-Grade receptacles for outlets. We use two versions: NEMA 5-15R for 15A outlets and NEMA 5-20R for 20A. Both of these receptacles are rated for 125V operation and are UL and CSA listed as such.
 
All Torus units are designed to applicable international standards. We cannot utilize 125V receptacles in 230 or 240V applications. It would violate standards and may constitute a deadly safety hazard.
 
We had chosen IEC outlets for the international versions of the Torus PIUs. They are rated for 250V. We use C13 for 10A and C19 for 16A. These are the mates for the C14 and C20 inlets that are standard on most equipment (like all Bryston products).
 
To connect equipment to Torus International PIUs, C14 to C13 cordsets are used for up to 10A.
 
High-end versions of these are not as prevalent as NEMA 15P to C13 cordsets. But, NEMA 15P (North American standard plugs) cannot safely be used for 230/240V operation.
 

[amdan]

Hi James,

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your reluctance to use 125V certified outlets for a 240V application. Even if it were safe it would expose your organisation to a potential liability you don't need, not to mention the compliance issues.

I will wait until the Torus is available with the USA style outlets or perhaps look at alternatives.

Audiophile grade power cords seem to come with USA style plugs (aside from 1 Furutech Aust plug) and I do want to be able to use them.

If I am not mistaken I recall reading that you don't believe in audiophile power chords. Are you still of this opinion?

Regards.

[James Tanner]

Hi James,

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your reluctance to use 125V certified outlets for a 240V application. Even if it were safe it would expose your organisation to a potential liability you don't need, not to mention the compliance issues.

I will wait until the Torus is available with the USA style outlets or perhaps look at alternatives.

Audiophile grade power cords seem to come with USA style plugs (aside from 1 Furutech Aust plug) and I do want to be able to use them.

If I am not mistaken I recall reading that you don't believe in audiophile power chords. Are you still of this opinion?

Regards.

Hi amdan,

It is not that I am against audiophile power cords it is just that I want customers to understand that the power cord is in SERIES with all the wire in the wall all the way back to the hydro transformer or panel. This impedance (resistance) has issues especially when it comes to short term current draw for the amplifiers.

One of the reasons we decided to develop the Torus Power Isolation Units was we ran some experiments on a 4B plugged into a standard wall plug. We ran the 4B into a 8 ohm speaker load at 200 watts.  For very short-term periods on musical transients the 4B attempted to draw 47 amps from what in Canada is a 120Volt/15 amp source. The wall plug can not supply this short term current burst to the amplifier (because of the high impedance of the wall plug and wiring in the wall). Measurements revealed that the average wallplug had about a 1 1/2 to 2 ohm impedance (resistance).

The large Torus powerline conditioners we developed have a VERY LOW .04 ohms of impedance so the 4B amplifier current draw requirement on those same short term bursts went from 47 amps to 24 amps on 120 volt lines and dropped to 15 amps on 240 volt lines.

So it is our opinion, rather than spending money on exotic power cords take that money and invest in a Torus powerline conditioner. Not only will you get much better transient response and control from your amplifiers but you also get 'Noise Isolation' and 'Protection' for your complete audio/video system.

james

[James Tanner]

Hi James,

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your reluctance to use 125V certified outlets for a 240V application. Even if it were safe it would expose your organisation to a potential liability you don't need, not to mention the compliance issues.

I will wait until the Torus is available with the USA style outlets or perhaps look at alternatives.

Audiophile grade power cords seem to come with USA style plugs (aside from 1 Furutech Aust plug) and I do want to be able to use them.

If I am not mistaken I recall reading that you don't believe in audiophile power chords. Are you still of this opinion?

Regards.

Hi amdan,

Please be cautious - It appears that using 125 volt US style plugs in 240 volt applications is a very serious safety issue.

james

[amdan]

Hi James,

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your reluctance to use 125V certified outlets for a 240V application. Even if it were safe it would expose your organisation to a potential liability you don't need, not to mention the compliance issues.

I will wait until the Torus is available with the USA style outlets or perhaps look at alternatives.

Audiophile grade power cords seem to come with USA style plugs (aside from 1 Furutech Aust plug) and I do want to be able to use them.

If I am not mistaken I recall reading that you don't believe in audiophile power chords. Are you still of this opinion?

Regards.

Hi amdan,

Please be cautious - It appears that using 125 volt US style plugs in 240 volt applications is a very serious safety issue.

james

Hi James,

Thanks for the warning. I must admit that I am a little concerned about it. However, most of my audiophile friends use the US style plugs and have done so for years without trouble.
Could you let me know what the specific problem is. Given that our current is half the US amount, wouldn't the US plug be ok for us?

Regards.

[amdan]

One of the reasons we decided to develop the Torus Power Isolation Units was we ran some experiments on a 4B plugged into a standard wall plug. We ran the 4B into a 8 ohm speaker load at 200 watts.  For very short-term periods on musical transients the 4B attempted to draw 47 amps from what in Canada is a 120Volt/15 amp source. The wall plug can not supply this short term current burst to the amplifier (because of the high impedance of the wall plug and wiring in the wall). Measurements revealed that the average wallplug had about a 1 1/2 to 2 ohm impedance (resistance).

The large Torus powerline conditioners we developed have a VERY LOW .04 ohms of impedance so the 4B amplifier current draw requirement on those same short term bursts went from 47 amps to 24 amps on 120 volt lines and dropped to 15 amps on 240 volt lines.

'dropped to 15 amps on 240 volt lines'  - does that mean that I really should get a 16 amp Torus rather than an 8 amp unit? I presume that the Torus will need to be plugged into a circuit with at least 16 amps. Is this right or does the Torus store current and is able to release it when needed?

Thanks again for your advice.

[James Tanner]

Hi James,

Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your reluctance to use 125V certified outlets for a 240V application. Even if it were safe it would expose your organisation to a potential liability you don't need, not to mention the compliance issues.

I will wait until the Torus is available with the USA style outlets or perhaps look at alternatives.

Audiophile grade power cords seem to come with USA style plugs (aside from 1 Furutech Aust plug) and I do want to be able to use them.

If I am not mistaken I recall reading that you don't believe in audiophile power chords. Are you still of this opinion?

Regards.

Hi amdan,

Please be cautious - It appears that using 125 volt US style plugs in 240 volt applications is a very serious safety issue.

james

Hi James,

Thanks for the warning. I must admit that I am a little concerned about it. However, most of my audiophile friends use the US style plugs and have done so for years without trouble.
Could you let me know what the specific problem is. Given that our current is half the US amount, wouldn't the US plug be ok for us?

Regards.

Hi amdan,

I am going to check further on this. I assume the certification/safety problem is the high voltage not the current draw. Maybe they are limiting internally the amount of voltage/current that is a availble to each bank of US style plugs?

james

[James Tanner]

One of the reasons we decided to develop the Torus Power Isolation Units was we ran some experiments on a 4B plugged into a standard wall plug. We ran the 4B into a 8 ohm speaker load at 200 watts.  For very short-term periods on musical transients the 4B attempted to draw 47 amps from what in Canada is a 120Volt/15 amp source. The wall plug can not supply this short term current burst to the amplifier (because of the high impedance of the wall plug and wiring in the wall). Measurements revealed that the average wallplug had about a 1 1/2 to 2 ohm impedance (resistance).



The large Torus powerline conditioners we developed have a VERY LOW .04 ohms of impedance so the 4B amplifier current draw requirement on those same short term bursts went from 47 amps to 24 amps on 120 volt lines and dropped to 15 amps on 240 volt lines.

'dropped to 15 amps on 240 volt lines'  - does that mean that I really should get a 16 amp Torus rather than an 8 amp unit? I presume that the Torus will need to be plugged into a circuit with at least 16 amps. Is this right or does the Torus store current and is able to release it when needed?

Thanks again for your advice.

I am going to check with the Torus design team on this one.

james

[James Tanner]

One of the reasons we decided to develop the Torus Power Isolation Units was we ran some experiments on a 4B plugged into a standard wall plug. We ran the 4B into a 8 ohm speaker load at 200 watts.  For very short-term periods on musical transients the 4B attempted to draw 47 amps from what in Canada is a 120Volt/15 amp source. The wall plug can not supply this short term current burst to the amplifier (because of the high impedance of the wall plug and wiring in the wall). Measurements revealed that the average wallplug had about a 1 1/2 to 2 ohm impedance (resistance).

The large Torus powerline conditioners we developed have a VERY LOW .04 ohms of impedance so the 4B amplifier current draw requirement on those same short term bursts went from 47 amps to 24 amps on 120 volt lines and dropped to 15 amps on 240 volt lines.

'dropped to 15 amps on 240 volt lines'  - does that mean that I really should get a 16 amp Torus rather than an 8 amp unit? I presume that the Torus will need to be plugged into a circuit with at least 16 amps. Is this right or does the Torus store current and is able to release it when needed?

Thanks again for your advice.

Hi James,
 
We have both 120V (single phase) and 240V (two 120V phases) available in North America. The 4B application mentioned below indicates that the primary current demand approx halved at 240V (dual phase) input from 120V input, as one might expect by doubling the voltage.
 
International units are 1:1 input to output. An International 8A unit provides 8A of 240V, based on approx 8A input.
 
Torus units provide inductance and a very large magnetic field that can provide peak current demands - more of a buffer than energy storage.
 
Regards,
 
TORUS

[amdan]

Hi James,

Thanks for posting the reply from the Torus people. However, I am not sure as to what I should do. Does 'can provide peak current demands' mean that an 8 amp unit will provide 9 amps at peaks or 100amps or 1000amps?
I would prefer to get the 8amp model from the cost perspective but not if it is going to be inadequate for my needs. I don't want to get the 16 amp model either unless it will meet my needs. Sure there is a logical way of determining the appropriate unit!

Sorry for the endless questions - I have no background in electronics/electricity.

Regards.

[James Tanner]

Hi James,

Thanks for posting the reply from the Torus people. However, I am not sure as to what I should do. Does 'can provide peak current demands' mean that an 8 amp unit will provide 9 amps at peaks or 100amps or 1000amps?
I would prefer to get the 8amp model from the cost perspective but not if it is going to be inadequate for my needs. I don't want to get the 16 amp model either unless it will meet my needs. Sure there is a logical way of determining the appropriate unit!

Sorry for the endless questions - I have no background in electronics/electricity.

Regards.

Hi James,
 
The Torus International 8A unit's Load Current Capability is 500A for 1/2 cycle, 250A for 1 second and 125A for 10 seconds. Full specifications for all International PIUs at http://www.toruspower.com/Documents/Torus%20Int.pdf
 
Regards,
 
Torus

[rabpaul]

More questions James,

I too live in Asia and have a 240V power supply.
Currently I use a 240V rated Shunyata Hydra which has a 20A IEC input connected to the wall.
Like Amdan I use American Style plugs from the Shunyata to feed my equipment.
I do believe there should not be any problem for a Torus US/International to feed the Shunyata.
 
What would be the right International 240V or US 120V Torus model for a 4Bsst?
How is RGPC different from Torus?
How is Torus (balanced version) different from BPT/Equitech?
How important is it to have a balanced power supply when it comes to Bryston Amps?

Rgds
Rabin

[James Tanner]

More questions James,

I too live in Asia and have a 240V power supply.
Currently I use a 240V rated Shunyata Hydra which has a 20A IEC input connected to the wall.
Like Amdan I use American Style plugs from the Shunyata to feed my equipment.
I do believe there should not be any problem for a Torus US/International to feed the Shunyata.
 
What would be the right International 240V or US 120V Torus model for a 4Bsst?
How is RGPC different from Torus?
How is Torus (balanced version) different from BPT/Equitech?
How important is it to have a balanced power supply when it comes to Bryston Amps?

Rgds
Rabin

Hi James,
 
Standard North American plugs (NEMA 5-15P and 5-20P - 15A and 20A) and receptacles (NEMA 5-15R and 5-20R) are safety rated for 125V. Using them for higher voltages is unsafe and not approvable by any agency authority (UL, CSA, IEC, etc.).
 
Torus Power Isolation Units are designed for full safety compliance to international standards.
 
Because RGPC and Shunyata units provide no isolation, they are largely unaffected by voltage or frequency.
 
Torus Power Isolation Units are transformer-based products and provide full isolation from input to output. Transformers must be designed and constructed for their appropriate voltage, frequency and current.
 
Almost all high-end audio equipment uses either IEC 15A (C14) or 20A (C20) inlets (male) mounted to their rear panels. These mate with IEC female connectors (15A - C13; 20A - C19) on line cords.
 
C13 and C19 are used on the outputs of Torus International units. These are rated for 250V. To connect from the Torus international units to equipment, Jumpercords should be used.
 
Jumpercords are used to transfer power from on device to another. The plug / Torus end is C14 for up to 15A and C20 for higher power. The equipment end is the same as standard linecords. Torus will be offering these Jumpercords in the near future.
 
RGPC are parallel inductors. No isolation, and MOV-based surge suppression. Torus offers series-mode surge suppression and noise cancelation plus very low impedance outputs and huge magnetic-fields for very high peak current delivery.
 
BPT/Equi=Tech are balanced output units which are not allowed in residences by North American Electrical Code. They also require GFCIs which are prone to nuisance trips. In many installations better performance is achieved by not plugging amplifiers into these units. Balanced Power provides little incremental noise cancellation from primary to secondary, it mainly helps with reactive loads - such as switching power supplies.
 
 
Regards,
 
Torus

[amdan]

Hi James,

Thanks for posting the reply from the Torus people. However, I am not sure as to what I should do. Does 'can provide peak current demands' mean that an 8 amp unit will provide 9 amps at peaks or 100amps or 1000amps?
I would prefer to get the 8amp model from the cost perspective but not if it is going to be inadequate for my needs. I don't want to get the 16 amp model either unless it will meet my needs. Sure there is a logical way of determining the appropriate unit!

Sorry for the endless questions - I have no background in electronics/electricity.

Regards.

Hi James,
 
The Torus International 8A unit's Load Current Capability is 500A for 1/2 cycle, 250A for 1 second and 125A for 10 seconds. Full specifications for all International PIUs at http://www.toruspower.com/Documents/Torus%20Int.pdf
 
Regards,
 
Torus

Hi James,

Thanks for clarifying that. Would you agree that the 8amp version is sufficient for my 14 B ST? I presume the 16amp version would be for situations where there are several amplifiers.

I have been in touch with your distributor in Australia - Syntec International. As far as they are aware the international Torus units do not yet exist. Would you mind clarifying the situation?

Furthermore, when will Jumpercords  be available? From the other post it seems I will need them as well.

Regards.

[rabpaul]

James,

What would be the right International 240V Torus for a 4B? My query.
What would be the right International 240V Torus for a 14B? Amdan's query.

When will the International Units/Pricing become available?

Rgds
Rabin

[James Tanner]

James,

What would be the right International 240V Torus for a 4B? My query.
What would be the right International 240V Torus for a 14B? Amdan's query.

When will the International Units/Pricing become available?

Rgds
Rabin

Hi,

Yes the 8 amp Torus would be good on most single amp setups and the 16 amp for multiple amplifier setups.  One of the things I see happening is customers are purchasing the 8-16 amp units for their amplifiers and the 2-4 amp units for their source components and the video display.

The prices you can get from the Bryston dealer or distributor in your area.

james