[crossroadazn]

For a long while I havenot seen one, is it high tech and high quality parts made so now we see less or none bad products exist ?

[tvad4]

For a long while I havenot seen one, is it high tech and high quality parts made so now we see less or none bad products exist ?

It's both.

But more than either, it's politics.

[miklorsmith]

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/atelier/firsthorn.html

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/rex/rex.html

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/fabaudio/model1.html

[Bob Reynolds]

For a long while I havenot seen one, is it high tech and high quality parts made so now we see less or none bad products exist ?

There have been quite a few reviews in Stereophile in the last couple of years in which the component measured quite poorly, yet the subjective reviewer was happy enough with it. I'm not sure if those qualify as bad reviews or not.

The most recent example is the $40K+ Zanden CD Transport and DAC. JA deemed it the worst measuring digital component he has ever seen. Yet, within a fairly narrow frequency range it did not sound unpleasant. I'm grateful that Stereophile publishes measurements so that we have fuller picture of the component under review.

[hmen]

 6moons is about the only place you can find bad reviews thses days.

[Spirit]

I guess you guys haven't read this month's Absolute sound.
Read the reviews of the Class D amp reviews.
Wayne Garcia trashes the NuForce amps like you wouldn't believe!
I feel kind of bad for the manufacturer, but in a sick kind of way, it
was refreshing to read on the plance back to Toronto from RMAF.
BTW - the magaziune was given out free by the nice ladies at the Absolute desk.

[Brian Cheney]

I haven't had a review in Stereophile since 1989 (made the "Recommended Components" list, too!).

I'll send JA another personal invite to our booth (St Tropez 1805) and see if he bites. I doubt it.

It's not easy to get a print magazine to review one's product, regardless of who you are.  Too much gear at all price points, with new stuff appearing daily.

While writers make their bones with bad reviews, consumers do not rely as much on reviewer opinions as they have in the past.  Plus, even if you please a notoriously picky critic, it doesn't guarantee success in the marketplace. A bad review almost guarantees failure, tho.  Most writers dislike publishing same for this reason.

There are very few b&m retailers left to sell to now anyway. These used to be your best customers for that highly reviewed piece you manufacture.
Internet buyers tend to go with consensus opinion from the online message boards, for the most part.

Still, that writeup in Stereophile would be nice, if only for ego gratification!

[PaulFolbrecht]

I guess you guys haven't read this month's Absolute sound.
Read the reviews of the Class D amp reviews.
Wayne Garcia trashes the NuForce amps like you wouldn't believe!

I'm happy to see that.  After buying a pair of NuForce 9s to try (used), I was amazed at all the positive hype there had been - all the stellar reviews.  There is nothing there.  They are cold and sterile.  (I have not read this review so maybe he's actually too harsh...)

(But these were the worst digital amps I'd tried out of several.  After the experience, I'd written off switching amps.  But then came the RWA Sig 30 which is stunning and the Flying Mole amps in use in the GMA room at RMAF were very impressive as well.  I think there is hope for the technology.)

[Spirit]

I guess you guys haven't read this month's Absolute sound.
Read the reviews of the Class D amp reviews.
Wayne Garcia trashes the NuForce amps like you wouldn't believe!

I'm happy to see that.  After buying a pair of NuForce 9s to try (used), I was amazed at all the positive hype there had been - all the stellar reviews.  There is nothing there.  They are cold and sterile.  (I have not read this review so maybe he's actually too harsh...)

(But these were the worst digital amps I'd tried out of several.  After the experience, I'd written off switching amps.  But then came the RWA Sig 30 which is stunning and the Flying Mole amps in use in the GMA room at RMAF were very impressive as well.  I think there is hope for the technology.)

Paul:
Here are a few quotes from Absolute Sound this month. Harsh? You decide:
NuForce Ref 9 SE: Wayne garcia:
...Chris Martens is crazy about it, Robert Harley think its pretty good, and I think it's terrible.
To my ears-and in my system, which seems to be critical of some of these critters- this amplifier is not transparent,it's cold and clinical with that kind of false "clarity" that fools us into thinking it's transparent when it really isn't...
Cary 306: Wayne Garcia:
I,m not sure what the folks at Cary had in mind when they released this model, but it surely won't do the company's reputation any good...the 306 has nothing to recommend it. Its top end sounds wrong. It not only lacks air; it is strangely rolled off yet jittery-bright.  Its midrange has a weird shimmering nature, like heat rising off the hot pavement.  It lacks detail...

As a matter of fact- reading the intro to these Class D which is "Designer Roundtable" between
Dan D'Agostino, Jeff rowland and Bruno Putzeys is worth the price of the edition on its own.

[PaulFolbrecht]

MHO is that Chris' comments on the NuForce are SPOT ON.  He nailed it.

I've never heard a Cary 306 but I sure have liked all the Cary gear I've heard........

[mtodde]

Fremer wasn't too positive on the sound of the Oracle Temple phono stage in the November stereophile...he said more thought went into the look & funtionality than the sound quality and said it wasn't competitive in its price class.  At $7500 that is pretty damning to me.

[warnerwh]

Actually if you look at JA's measurements you will see some that I would call bad. When the engineering is poor or the manufacturer doesn't meet their own published specs it's a red flag to me. I realize they will still recommend something based solely on the reviewer's opinion of the sound quality even with  measurements not meeting manufacturer's claims though. I call it lying. And why would they want to lie?

[ooheadsoo]

Funny, I heard the nuforce 9 at an LAOCAS meeting with the nuforce s-9 speaker and they were quite far from cold or sterile.  Those words would never have come to my mind listening to them.  They were full and rich sounding, didn't do anything wrong in my opinion.

[warnerwh]

Funny, I heard the nuforce 9 at an LAOCAS meeting with the nuforce s-9 speaker and they were quite far from cold or sterile.  Those words would never have come to my mind listening to them.  They were full and rich sounding, didn't do anything wrong in my opinion.

And that's the beauty of this hobby. We all hear differently. What's a priority to one person is not to another. I like excellent dynamics, bass and a fast transient response.  I've also owned Vandersteen's 2C's which didn't have the speed, dynamics or bass I craved but had qualities I really liked like a very open sound and a smooth midrange. Actually bigger ones may have sounded good enough to want to keep.

So in effect the entire picture(sound) is subjective. Fortunately everybody is always right when it comes to what sounds best and is the best deal in the audio fanatic world

[Bob Reynolds]

Actually if you look at JA's measurements you will see some that I would call bad. When the engineering is poor or the manufacturer doesn't meet their own published specs it's a red flag to me. I realize they will still recommend something based solely on the reviewer's opinion of the sound quality even with  measurements not meeting manufacturer's claims though. I call it lying. And why would they want to lie?

I agree about the measurements raising a red flag. That's the only reason I still subscribe to Stereophile. Well, that and the all too infrequent articles by Keith Howard. But, it doesn't bother me that such components will still make the recommended components list. I find it amusing and I can always use a good chuckle.

-- Bob

[miklorsmith]

I've seen some bad user reviews of the NuForce amps, several of them here.  Also, they have lots of rabid supporters.

They might be competing with Zu speakers for "most polarizing gear" awards.

FWIW I love my Zu's and didn't like the NuForces for the reasons specified above.  That said, I wouldn't be shocked to hear a NF rig that I liked, set up differently.  Published bad specs are dishonest, or maybe not.  Testing protocol surely differs from case to case, eh?

In true science when a finding is published, great care is taken to document all variables so that later research can duplicate the conditions and verify if outcomes remain the same.  It would be unrealistic in many dimensions to follow this rigor in audio yet this difference is largely responsible for the wildly varying opinions often found of the same piece of gear.  I would also posit that responsible reviewers understand this and the influence they can have over market perception, and deliberately keep negativity subtle.

I thought Steve Marsh did a thorough job in his evaluation of the Fab 1 speakers.  He really seemed to try his best to get them to sing.

What's the consensus here, speakers first, room second?  Everybody has a different room.  The same speaker will sound different in another room.  Or the same room with different treatments.  And what about our own ears and preferences?  When I tested the NuForce amps, the fellow sitting next to me thought they were super.

Good reviews, bad reviews.  They are data points in the realm of available information to be used in making purchase decisions.  There is a ton of information out there, part of the buyer's diligence is to be able to prioritize that information based on factors relevant to them.  Some shmoe may proclaim something to be "the best".  It may be, for them.  However, without context of their experience, habits, associated gear, and some sense of what they value this "information" is completely meaningless - even if the writer is a professional.

[mcrespo71]

Michael Fremer pretty much slammed the Oracle phone preamp in Stereophile this month.